scripture and homosexuality

[LDNCatholic]

Im sorry, but that makes little sense.

You’re not sorry so why say it?

Please elaborate. Marriage was given by God to join man and woman. There is not a single instance in the Bible where God commands the union of two men, why do you assume this means it is OK for man to ‘‘marry’’ man and woman to ‘‘marry’’ woman?

 

[LDNCatholic]

I’ve tried posting one, based on my last comment, hopefully the moderators will display it…

The moderators don’t approve threads before they are displayed to the best of my knowledge.

 

[joeybaggz]

i can’t be bothered arguing about gays anymore, ive got more interesting questions
How can use believe Mary didn’t sin?
And do use believe the Pope doesn’t sin?
Where in the bible did it say that the responsibility Jesus gave to Peter should be inherited?
Can you BUY your way into heaven? (like catholic priests used to say but when Luther challenged them nooo they didnt change they stayed stubborn with no reasoning)
Purgatory!? Where in the bible in this mentioned!?
How can a priest, or the pope, forgive a person?? When the bible makes it clear only God can forgive?
What’s with all the statues when the bible makes it clear to have no graven images?
Why do use pray to dead sinners? (saints) and where in the bible does it say to pray to saints?
Why is the Pope so rich!? When there are so many poor in the world, why not be humble like Jesus was?

Let’s see, How do we believe Mary didn’t sin. Probably because the references are throughout scripture. Probably the parts your preachers don’t want you to read.

Does the Pope sin? Well, I don’t know him personally, but I will say that some of the hats he wears are really fashion risks.

Inheritance of the Chair of Peter. Actually nowhere. I think you are on to something here. Let’s see, “go and preach the gospel to all nations, and when you guys die, my gospel will eventually die out and be forgotten because there is no continuity to the mission I have given you. My life, death, and resurrection will eventually be forgotten, and in the end will be a useless gesture.” Hey, that’s a good plan… Duh.

Can you buy your way into heaven. Yes you can !!! That’s the good news. If you go to the New York City subway station at 137th St. and Fulton, you will see seven turnstyles. The first six are for getting on the subway, but the one on the far right is to get into heaven. Just put in seven 2005 New Jersey quarters, sing the first and last verse of The Old Rugged Cross,and you are in !!

Purgatory - It’s in the seventh chapter of the book of Rocco the Rug Weaver, verse 11.

They say, ‘I forgive you’, and you are forgiven. Then some of the Italian guys make a call to Tony Soprano, and Tony assigns you your penance. And Paulie Walnuts helps you carry it out.

Statues. Actually, they aren’t graven images. They are just really big 16th century chess pieces that got lost when Martin Luther declared that Chess was the devil’s board game and outlawed them from Lutheran churches. The Catholic church felt sorry for them, and adopted them, rather then seeing them turned into the Middle Ages version of cigar store indians.

Praying to dead sinners. Well, it’s better than praying to live ones. The live ones really don’t pay attention. Of course, if I can make a suggestion try this. Next Friday night, get your bible and go down to the nearest bordello you can find, and organize a bible study. I’m sure the madam and the girls can’t wait for you to show up. You’ll be the hit of the evening and I’m sure they will invite you back next week.
Oh, and besides, dead people have to listen - what ?? they’re going to run away - Fuggedaboutit.

Why is the Pope so rich. Answer - He’s got a great bookie. I personally know he made a killing on the last super bowl. Then again, he get’s his information from above, so he knew the Giants would rule. If you want to get rich this October, I know he’s betting everything on the Cubs to win the World Series. If I were you, I’d get in on it now. After all, the guy’s infallible.

Okay, now that I’ve engaged in a little bit of silliness at your expense, here’s my two cents. Seeing that you are new to this Roman Catholic forum, I hope you won’t be surprised to find that the questions you’ve asked have been asked countless times before. More often than not, by some other non Catholic poster in a somewhat condescending tone. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, that you are making a serious and sincere inquiry into the Catholic faith, I suggest you try some reading by any number of Catholic authors such as Karl Keating, Patrick Madrid, Scott Hahn, and pretty much everyone else you will find in a Catholic bookstore (they are pretty common, just look em up on the internet). The people are friendly and just ask them for some reading material by these authors, and others, on the questions you’ve asked.
Also, the answer to some of your questions are in Scripture. They are just probably in the parts that you really won’t hear a Protestant preacher talk about on Sunday or in Bible Study. Try reading a Catholic Study Bible and pay attention to the commentaries. You’ll get some answers you’ve never heard before. Then as St. Paul says, “examine all things, and keep the good”

 

[Elric]

You’re not sorry so why say it?

Because I was sorry, what you wrote made little sense to me.

Please elaborate. Marriage was given by God to join man and woman. There is not a single instance in the Bible where God commands the union of two men, why do you assume this means it is OK for man to ‘‘marry’’ man and woman to ‘‘marry’’ woman?

Actually I didnt assume anything, I simply stated that it neither condones or condemns same sex marriage and that there is no mention of same sex marriage. Stating that doesnt mean that I think that same sex marriage is ok, its simply observing that the bible is silent on the subject.

The only person who assumed anything is yourself.

 

[ralphinal]

All of these have been adressed, but we can do this again.

i can’t be bothered arguing about gays anymore, ive got more interesting questions
How can use believe Mary didn’t sin?

Two ways. First, there are no sins recorded to her in the Bible or in Sacred Tradition. Second, it is fitting that Jesus would protect his mother.

And do use believe the Pope doesn’t sin?

We don’t. He can sin quite as well As any of us. Some have been professionals.

Where in the bible did it say that the responsibility Jesus gave to Peter should be inherited?

Acts shows that there can be replacement Apostles. Why would Jesus allow the leadership of His Church to die with Peter.

Can you BUY your way into heaven? (like catholic priests used to say but when Luther challenged them nooo they didnt change they stayed stubborn with no reasoning)

The Church never taught that. It is too long for this thread, but the Church never taught that you could buy your way into heaven. Drop me a PM and I will give the whole story to you.

Purgatory!? Where in the bible in this mentioned!?

Prayer for the dead is mentioned in Maccabees, which the Protestants decided to remove. Paul also teaches that we must be purified as with fire. Purgatory was also a part of the teachings of the ancient Jews. The rest of the afterlife was accepted by Jesus, why should this be any different. Remember that he taught that there was a sin that could not be forgiven in this world or the next. There is no chance of forgiveness if the only options are heaven and hell.

How can a priest, or the pope, forgive a person?? When the bible makes it clear only God can forgive?

You have just called Jesus a lier. He told the 12 that whose sins they ahve forgiven are forgiven, and whose sins that they hold bound, they are held bound. Jesus also sent his followers into the world with the authority that he had, which is the authority to forgive sins, among others. Besides, God does the actual forgiving through the priest.

What’s with all the statues when the bible makes it clear to have no graven images?

And then God went against his own commandment when he had the Arc of the Covenant adorned with golden angels? Nope. Neither do we.

Why do use pray to dead sinners? (saints) and where in the bible does it say to pray to saints?

Jesus tells us that God is the God of the Living and not the dead. St. Paul teaches us that those who are baptised into Christ, though they die, have eternal life. We are told that we should pray for each other. There is no difference between asking you to pray for me and asking a saint.

Why is the Pope so rich!? When there are so many poor in the world, why not be humble like Jesus was?

Oh, but he is humble. If you are saying that you cannot be Christlike without being poor, most of the Christians have failed. The Pope has an income of 0. He gets no payment. True, everything is provided. What would you have the Church do, sell it all? And the, tomorrow, there are still poor and the church no longer can help.

I could ask if your minister has a home and clothing or is he humble like Christ as well.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Let’s see, How do we believe Mary didn’t sin. Probably because the references are throughout scripture. Probably the parts your preachers don’t want you to read.

Does the Pope sin? Well, I don’t know him personally, but I will say that some of the hats he wears are really fashion risks.

Inheritance of the Chair of Peter. Actually nowhere. I think you are on to something here. Let’s see, “go and preach the gospel to all nations, and when you guys die, my gospel will eventually die out and be forgotten because there is no continuity to the mission I have given you. My life, death, and resurrection will eventually be forgotten, and in the end will be a useless gesture.” Hey, that’s a good plan… Duh.

Can you buy your way into heaven. Yes you can !!! That’s the good news. If you go to the New York City subway station at 137th St. and Fulton, you will see seven turnstyles. The first six are for getting on the subway, but the one on the far right is to get into heaven. Just put in seven 2005 New Jersey quarters, sing the first and last verse of The Old Rugged Cross,and you are in !!

Purgatory - It’s in the seventh chapter of the book of Rocco the Rug Weaver, verse 11.

They say, ‘I forgive you’, and you are forgiven. Then some of the Italian guys make a call to Tony Soprano, and Tony assigns you your penance. And Paulie Walnuts helps you carry it out.

Statues. Actually, they aren’t graven images. They are just really big 16th century chess pieces that got lost when Martin Luther declared that Chess was the devil’s board game and outlawed them from Lutheran churches. The Catholic church felt sorry for them, and adopted them, rather then seeing them turned into the Middle Ages version of cigar store indians.

Praying to dead sinners. Well, it’s better than praying to live ones. The live ones really don’t pay attention. Of course, if I can make a suggestion try this. Next Friday night, get your bible and go down to the nearest bordello you can find, and organize a bible study. I’m sure the madam and the girls can’t wait for you to show up. You’ll be the hit of the evening and I’m sure they will invite you back next week.
Oh, and besides, dead people have to listen - what ?? they’re going to run away - Fuggedaboutit.

Why is the Pope so rich. Answer - He’s got a great bookie. I personally know he made a killing on the last super bowl. Then again, he get’s his information from above, so he knew the Giants would rule. If you want to get rich this October, I know he’s betting everything on the Cubs to win the World Series. If I were you, I’d get in on it now. After all, the guy’s infallible.

Okay, now that I’ve engaged in a little bit of silliness at your expense, here’s my two cents. Seeing that you are new to this Roman Catholic forum, I hope you won’t be surprised to find that the questions you’ve asked have been asked countless times before. More often than not, by some other non Catholic poster in a somewhat condescending tone. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, that you are making a serious and sincere inquiry into the Catholic faith, I suggest you try some reading by any number of Catholic authors such as Karl Keating, Patrick Madrid, Scott Hahn, and pretty much everyone else you will find in a Catholic bookstore (they are pretty common, just look em up on the internet). The people are friendly and just ask them for some reading material by these authors, and others, on the questions you’ve asked.
Also, the answer to some of your questions are in Scripture. They are just probably in the parts that you really won’t hear a Protestant preacher talk about on Sunday or in Bible Study. Try reading a Catholic Study Bible and pay attention to the commentaries. You’ll get some answers you’ve never heard before. Then as St. Paul says, “examine all things, and keep the good”

I’ve started a new thread on these questions in the ‘‘Non-Catholic religions’’ subforum entitled ‘‘For Moireach’’ I think it would be best to continue the discussion there.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Actually I didnt assume anything, I simply stated that it neither condones or condemns same sex marriage and that there is no mention of same sex marriage. Stating that doesnt mean that I think that same sex marriage is ok, its simply observing that the bible is silent on the subject.

If the Bible forbids ‘‘martial style relations’’ between those of the same gender, why would it then condone marriage between those of the same gender? Forbidding the act, in and of iteslf, forbids the state of being by which it is permissable to perform those type of acts (marriage).

 

[inJESUS]

Originally Posted by feetxxxl

“And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.” - Romans 1:27

 

[wisdomseeker]

Maybe you should read the whole thread, this has already been discussed.

Do you really think that a discussion like this that has gone as long as this has on a catholic forum would not already have these biblical quote presented?

They have already been presented and discussed. Please read the thread before making half baked statements like you have.

I saw they were posted before. but you dont seem to understand them.
did you read my questions?

:bowdown2: :byzsoc:

 

[Teeliumtrozzle]

Homosexuality is disgusting and stupid, but no more disgusting and stupid than normal sexuality:shrug: If the world wants to live like it does, I say let it. It’s nothing to do with religion; I’ve realised that a misanthropic attitude can prevent you getting hurt.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Homosexuality is disgusting and stupid, but no more disgusting and stupid than normal sexuality:shrug: If the world wants to live like it does, I say let it. It’s nothing to do with religion; I’ve realised that a misanthropic attitude can prevent you getting hurt.

Teeliumtrozzle, as nasty as this is going to sound, you are a 14 year old child. You do not know anything about what sexuality is and isn’t.

A misanthropic attitude can also prevent you from experiencing love.

 

[Teeliumtrozzle]

Teeliumtrozzle, as nasty as this is going to sound, you are a 14 year old child. You do not know anything about what sexuality is and isn’t.

A misanthropic attitude can also prevent you from experiencing love.

Sorry, in future I’ll be careful not to say anything argumentative. I respect your viewpoint,and if I try to argue, that might sound mean and we’d be here forever. However, I am not a child, and I am only misanthropic because last year, when I was passionate instead of misanthropic, nobody liked me.Now, probably, people still don’t like me, but it no longer matters.God bless

 

[Elric]

I saw they were posted before. but you dont seem to understand them.

So you are just ignoring the discussion about them and making statements that have already been replied to.

What part dont I understand?

did you read my questions?

Do you mean these:

It is this not self explanatory?

or do you think God has changed His mind today?

what dont you understand here?

Yes I did read them and I replied to them about 60 posts before you posted them.

 

[Elric]

If the Bible forbids ‘‘martial style relations’’ between those of the same gender, why would it then condone marriage between those of the same gender? Forbidding the act, in and of iteslf, forbids the state of being by which it is permissable to perform those type of acts (marriage).

???

Is there a new passage that forbids homosexual acts that has not been brought up yet?

If so, dont keep it to yourself.

 

[Elric]

Hi Elric,

Hello?

I was going to bring this up, but decided not to bother. In any event, thanks for your cogent rebuttal. This is the classic argument to the Mormon contention that Paul described homosexuality as “unnatural”. In fact, Paul was talking about heterosexuals who were indulging in experimentation, and Paul never even mentioned men whose natural tendency was homosexuality.

Thanks.

As a straight guy, I’m pretty happy with the heterosexual lifestyle and as such don’t care what others do. I’m starting to really wonder why so many people are so obsessed with homosexuals, what homosexuals do and how they behave. The only people I have ever known who put this much effort into condemning homosexuality turned out to be homosexuals themselves, who obsessed about something that was personally relevant to their own lives, up until the day they simply accepted their own inborn tendencies. I’m confident that if some of the people posting here would simply “come out of the closet” and move on with their lives, they’d be much happier.

LoL, that is quite true in many cases.

 

[Eden]

Just out of interest…what the heck is that all about?

And the catholic church building western civilisation…? Wasn’t it Martin Luther who demanded the church learn how to read so that they didnt have to rely and what the Priests (often liars) taught the?
and from that the Prostestants made the first ever schools?
And do Catholics not still have latin services? :S i mean, whats the point in that? You may as well go to church with earplugs…

Was this directed at me? If so, please read the book in my signature, then put forth an argument against the idea. Until then, your anti-Catholic Protestantism means nothing, as being Protestant requires you that frame your world view around anti-Catholicism. What else is new?

 

[LDNCatholic]

???

Is there a new passage that forbids homosexual acts that has not been brought up yet?

If so, dont keep it to yourself.

The arguements against the other passages do not leave me convinced.

Teeliumtrozzle I didn’t mean to sound so harsh, so forgive me on that. I can’t judge your experience or knowledge.

 

[ralphinal]

How about this. There is no doubt that homosexual acts go against the old Mosaic Laws. Show me where that ban was lifted by Jesus or by the Church.

 

[inJESUS]

thank you for your elaborate answer, but i was asking what does "men, leaving the natural use

 

[LaMar]

inJESUS;3670489:

can anyone respond as to what possibly could be derived from this sentence beside it’s obvious meaning?

Is there any case in the whole Bible about two married men or women? after all, if it was believed to be ok to be homosexual and marry another homosexual, shouldn’t we read about such a case in the history presented in the Bible? we cannot call it an argument from silence because, if the history of thousands of years did not mention any such case even though it is normal and ok as per God’s law, then something is wrong.

When I read this passage I see Paul exhorting people to follow the tendencies which were given to them.

In short: a person who was born a heterosexual ought to concentrate on finding a spouse of the opposite sex. This is especially relevant to the time in which Uncle Saul lived, when it was customary for people to swing this way or that, and to chase casual pleasures with whoever was available at the moment.

The passage seems to encourage those who were born with natural homosexual tendencies to also settle down with an appropriate mate.

Uncle Saul seems to criticize those people who chase casual sex and one night stands (whatever their sexual orientation) rather than homosexuals. The emphasis is on Christians leading an ethical life, which includes meaningful committed relationships. He wanted people to be human beings, rather than animals.

With a fair understanding of the text (and subtext, and context) it’s safe to assume that St. Paul would not only vote for same-sex marriage to be codified into law, he would demand it, and he would probably celebrate same sex weddings in Christian churches if he were alive today. The alternative is casual, uncommitted sex, which is what he condemned most stridently.