A
aimee
Guest
don’t have to…
- Status
A
aimee
Guest
Perhaps he is tying to say there are no moral absolutes
T
Tom317
Guest
Because it is not possible.
T
Tom317
Guest
Wrong. I believe there are moral absolutes, but notice the words “I believe.” What I see as absolutes might be see as nothing to my neighbor. We cannot prove morality, we can only know what God wants of us and then try to mold our lives and culture around what we personally know and believe is morally right.Perhaps he is tying to say there are no moral absolutes
A
aimee
Guest
:ehh:
T
Tom317
Guest
This is simple really. I believe abortion is equal to murder and that it is an absolute wrong. Yet, my neighbor might think abortion is simply a woman’s right to choose. My neighbor (imo) could not be more wrong, yet there is really nothing I can offer as proof, only opinions.
However, do not misunderstand me. I believe Catholics should work tirelessly for the good in this life and we should never cease trying to rid the world of abortion, yet we must not fool ourselves into thinking we can prove our moral opinions, views, beliefs, etc…they are not provavle, but they are supportable, knowable and understandable. WE must, imo, try to pursuade, and absence that we must still press on to change the laws for the good.
Morality is no more provable then is God.
A
aimee
Guest
Bless your heart…you just don’t know any better do you?
T
Tom317
Guest
Does it make you feel good to insult others?
T
Tom317
Guest
aimee,
Truly, I would love for you to prove to me absolute morality. Proof, not opinion. I will be most happy to concede this point, so please fire away and provie it to me.
Truly, I would love for you to prove to me absolute morality. Proof, not opinion. I will be most happy to concede this point, so please fire away and provie it to me.
B
bquinnan
Guest
That doesn’t seem to be what he’s saying at all. Part of the reason I asked the question was to better understand Tom’s position. He’s clearly not a moral relativist; he’s just saying that one can’t objectively prove moral truths. At this point, I have no argument to give one way or another, but I certainly don’t know how you prove any moral teaching outside the context of the Church.Perhaps he is tying to say there are no moral absolutes
I do believe their are explanations to be offered about why contraception is wrong, but to prove the point would seem to require proof that the marital act is sacred, and that artificially separating the act from it’s reproductive potential somehow violates that sacredness. I believe that to be true, but I don’t see a way to prove the point.
A
aimee
Guest
T
Tantum_ergo
Guest
Well, to me the proof of absolute morality is Jesus–His birth, His life, and His death on the cross for us, and His resurrection.
Because to me, if there is no ‘absolute’ morality, IOW no absolute good or evil, if everything is relative, then why would God have: 1. Sent Adam and Eve from the garden. 2. Sent Jesus to redeem us–not just Adam and Eve, not just all the ‘sinners’, but every one of us.
Not only did He leave us the written word of God to explain that absolute morality, He left us the spoken word of Tradition, His Spirit to guide us, and He Himself is the Living Word.
Of course, since there is no ‘proof’ that the Bible is ‘inspired by God’ the way that we might have ‘proof’ that Stephen King wrote “Carrie” (from copyright, rough drafts, royalty checks or whatever), and since we have no verified documented widely published and viewable TV feeds from the Resurrection (unlike the recent funeral for JP2 for example), some argue, “it never happened.” Strangely enough, though, with ‘time’ even things which were ‘proven’ once go right into the realm of ‘non proven’.
Mankind landing on the moon? Hey, some people claim it’s a phony.
The Holocaust? Never happened.
Who **really ** started the Civil War/War Between the States?
And of course we all know now that Shakespeare’s works were never written by that clown Will Shakespeare. . .
There’s no 'proof". . .right?
Because to me, if there is no ‘absolute’ morality, IOW no absolute good or evil, if everything is relative, then why would God have: 1. Sent Adam and Eve from the garden. 2. Sent Jesus to redeem us–not just Adam and Eve, not just all the ‘sinners’, but every one of us.
Not only did He leave us the written word of God to explain that absolute morality, He left us the spoken word of Tradition, His Spirit to guide us, and He Himself is the Living Word.
Of course, since there is no ‘proof’ that the Bible is ‘inspired by God’ the way that we might have ‘proof’ that Stephen King wrote “Carrie” (from copyright, rough drafts, royalty checks or whatever), and since we have no verified documented widely published and viewable TV feeds from the Resurrection (unlike the recent funeral for JP2 for example), some argue, “it never happened.” Strangely enough, though, with ‘time’ even things which were ‘proven’ once go right into the realm of ‘non proven’.
Mankind landing on the moon? Hey, some people claim it’s a phony.
The Holocaust? Never happened.
Who **really ** started the Civil War/War Between the States?
And of course we all know now that Shakespeare’s works were never written by that clown Will Shakespeare. . .
There’s no 'proof". . .right?
A
Al_Masetti
Guest
I didn’t hear the exchange, but if the word “heresy” came up and denial of Holy Communion, without an effort to de-escalate the “conflict” or to teach… then I would say “fought”.
Father is trained. Hannity is not. I am disappointed in Hannity, but that doesn’t make him any more of a heretic than the bishops and priests who “decline” to preach (or teach) the subject.
T
Texas_Roofer
Guest
By going to “foxnews.com” then selecting the “Fox News Video” (right side min block) then selecting “shows” (menu bar) then 'hannity & colmes" Then "judgement day " the video is still posted.
The shortcut is listed at (add www.))
video.foxnews.com
The shortcut is listed at (add www.))
Latest Breaking News Videos | Fox News Video
Discover the latest breaking news videos from Fox News. From politics to entertainment Fox News has the most up-to-date videos that you can watch now.
video.foxnews.com
M
Mary3
Guest
Anybody know if Sean really said this on his radio show?:
Mr. Hannity is not backing down, saying on Monday’s radio program that if he were excommunicated he would call the Rev. Jerry Falwell and ask to join his Thomas Road Baptist Church in Lynchburg, Va.
It was reported in the Washington Times. I hope it’s not true.:nope:
Mr. Hannity is not backing down, saying on Monday’s radio program that if he were excommunicated he would call the Rev. Jerry Falwell and ask to join his Thomas Road Baptist Church in Lynchburg, Va.
It was reported in the Washington Times. I hope it’s not true.:nope:
B
Bernadette64
Guest
Kudos to Fr. E who is feeding his flock with the Truth Christ commanded. He is not placating those who publicly scandalize other Catholics with their dissent. It is Fr. E’s job to do what he did. Sean has no right to go after Catholic politicians who support abortion yet be himself a defender of an intrinsic evil, thus he’s rightfully pointed out as a hypocrite.
Let’s pray for Sean’s conversion.
Bernadette
Let’s pray for Sean’s conversion.
Bernadette
B
bquinnan
Guest
There are a couple of problems with your argument, in terms of its functioning as a proof. The statement given was that morality was not provable, not that absolute morality was not possible. I would understand that to mean that it is not provable whether specific actions were moral or immoral.Well, to me the proof of absolute morality is Jesus–His birth, His life, and His death on the cross for us, and His resurrection.
Because to me, if there is no ‘absolute’ morality, IOW no absolute good or evil, if everything is relative, then why would God have: 1. Sent Adam and Eve from the garden. 2. Sent Jesus to redeem us–not just Adam and Eve, not just all the ‘sinners’, but every one of us.
Not only did He leave us the written word of God to explain that absolute morality, He left us the spoken word of Tradition, His Spirit to guide us, and He Himself is the Living Word.
Of course, since there is no ‘proof’ that the Bible is ‘inspired by God’ the way that we might have ‘proof’ that Stephen King wrote “Carrie” (from copyright, rough drafts, royalty checks or whatever), and since we have no verified documented widely published and viewable TV feeds from the Resurrection (unlike the recent funeral for JP2 for example), some argue, “it never happened.” Strangely enough, though, with ‘time’ even things which were ‘proven’ once go right into the realm of ‘non proven’.
Mankind landing on the moon? Hey, some people claim it’s a phony.
The Holocaust? Never happened.
Who **really ** started the Civil War/War Between the States?
And of course we all know now that Shakespeare’s works were never written by that clown Will Shakespeare. . .
There’s no 'proof". . .right?
Within the context of Christianity, I would agree that a great deal can be proven, and even more within the context of Catholicism. But, this depends upon the assumption that Jesus is all he claimed to be, and that the Church is all she claims to be. How does one prove that, to one who is neither a Catholic nor a Christian?
A
AlegreFe
Guest
NO.
Heresy is not believing in something that the Church teaches and stating your own opinion. Or not wanting to obey something that the Church teaches because you think your own opinion is better or more important; all this while knowing very well what the Church teaches. Sean has made it clear that he knows that the Church does not support the use of ABC. Since he knows this fact, and he is still publicly speaking against that teaching because he has his own opinion and thinks that non-Catholics can use ABC which is intrisically evil, he is considered a heretic.
If a Catholic says that the Church teaches X when in fact the Church teaches Y, that is not heresy, that is just plain ignorance.
That right there is heresy.
Yes he is when asked about it or approached about the issues at hand.
Now if he’s in a conversation with someone and he states that he doesn’t agree with a certain Church teaching, he could just say that he doesn’t necessarily agree or understand but that he has to obey. He could also add that in the meantime he could do some more reading on the matter to see if he could understand better as to why the Church teaches X about an issue and perhaps he will learn why the Church teaches X and in turn he may start to agree, understand and believe.
HUH? More important than “just contraception?”The Nicene Creed is tremendously important. That is our Faith. But just because we have that Creed does not mean that the Church cannot have teachings that have been handed down by Jesus Christ and the Apostles. That is called Sacred Tradition and Church Doctrine. We hold fast to those teachings also. Not to mention Sacred Scripture. Did you forget about Sacred Scripture? Killing innocent lives is immoral and it’s right there in Scripture.
ABC is not “just contraception” either. Artificial Contraception is intrisically evil and should not be practiced by anyone who wants to do the good and moral thing.
MINOR issure?!! It is NOT minor! Killing new life that God formed in the womb is NOT minor! Yes I’m talking about artificial contraception. If one uses it, they are going against what God told us to do and that is to be fruitful and multiply. And if for some reason one wants to space their children or they want to put off the birth of new life for medical or financial reasons then God already planned for that. It’s called Natural Family Planning. It works with an accuracy rating of up to 99%.
Sean could very well NOT be using ABC in his marriage just because he knows that the Church is against it. But that does NOT give him the right to tell others that it is okay to use it because they are not in the Catholic Church. However, I doubt this. It seems that only those who are using ABC or have used it in the past, are the ones that are against the Church on this matter, and they publicly profess it. They seem to lash out out of guilt because they themselves use it or used it in the past.
It is apparant that he does not know WHY the Church is against using ABC. If he did know the reason, he wouldn’t go blabbing to the whole world that it’s okay to use ABC if you’re not in the Catholic Church. If he does this he could possibly be participating in someone’s mortal sin. He now becomes an occassion of sin for someone else that could have been watching him that night and thought, “hey, he’s in the Catholic Church and he studied theology and went to seminary, he must know what he’s talking about… it makes sense what he’s saying… I guess I could use ABC and not sweat it… I’ll be okay since I’m not Catholic.” Sean needs to keep his mouth shut because he’s in a public forum.
more in next post…
A
AlegreFe
Guest
…cont.
a_cermak:
The Catholic Church teaches that abortion is intrisically evil because it is morally wrong and it’s one of God’s commandments; Thou shall not kill. So let me ask you this, since you are not part of the Catholic Church, you have the moral right to go out and commit abortion? You have no right to do what is intrisically evil. God gave us all free will. But that doesn’t mean we have the right to kill innocent lives. As Father Corapi says, that is not Free Will, that is license. Free Will is doing something we ought to do, not something we shouldn’t do. We should choose to do what is right and good, not something that is morally wrong and evil.
Hannity has no right to tell others that it is okay for them to use ABC. He knows that the Church is against such practices. There must be a reason for that. I wonder why the Church is against ABC? :doh2: Maybe because using ABC is morally wrong and evil.
- Status