Second Coming of Jesus

[FaithofAbraham]

FaithofAbraham;3173217:

inJESUS;3172718:

Dear FoA,

Yes, Jesus is that cornerstone, the Kaaba and Zamzam are there just as a sign for Muslims to turn to Jesus. But instead Muslims have made an idol of that sign, and even though they accept Jesus as Messiah, they don’t really know what that means because they keep distance in fear of making an idol of Jesus.

So that’s all true Biblical irony: they make an idol of the thing telling them to turn to Jesus but they won’t turn completely to Jesus because they are afraid of making an idol of him.

 

[swariffin]

I
Ezekiel 45:17 And it shall be the prince’s part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

Or that all just may be symbolic of prayer offerings, I don’t know.

But in Revelation, after that Satan is gone at least, heaven and earth pass, and there is no more sin, so I can’t see any need for sin offerings, if there is no more sin.

Dear FoA,

What Ezekiel 45 wrote is about the segregation of responsibility just like the book of Leviticus. It was not a prophecy about Jesus. About the offering, you quoted a passage that the law will be enforced until the heaven and earth passed. When satan is gone, the heaven and earth are passed. That means there is no more earth, but heaven only. Don’t think that heaven is a place or even a palace where God dwells.

 

[swariffin]

Not day nor hour, but Jesus gave signs of the season since even the elect would be deceived by the Antichrist, if possible. So it’s important to recognize those things as they happen so we aren’t fooled. Most notably the restoration of Israel in 1948.

Like, why so many Christians support a nation that doesn’t like Jesus and believes another Messiah instead of him should rule the world is beyond me.

Dear FoA,

That is more of political issues not a religious one. If you ask me, I would say no, and I am a Christian. But again, my view is a political issue which comes from my brain, and does not come from my faith.

 

[swariffin]

swariffin;3191236:

FaithofAbraham;3173217:

inJESUS;3172718:

Yes, Jesus is that cornerstone, the Kaaba and Zamzam are there just as a sign for Muslims to turn to Jesus. But instead Muslims have made an idol of that sign, and even though they accept Jesus as Messiah, they don’t really know what that means because they keep distance in fear of making an idol of Jesus.

So that’s all true Biblical irony: they make an idol of the thing telling them to turn to Jesus but they won’t turn completely to Jesus because they are afraid of making an idol of him.

Dear FoA,

I don’t see the relationship of Jesus as the cornerstone and Ka’baa and ZamZam. When Jesus told the parable of himself being the cornerstone, he meant about himself. If you take the issue of Ka’baa and Zamzam and relate that to Jesus, I know nothing about.

When you said the muslims are afraid of making an idol of him, in other posting you mentioned that the muslims take Muhammad as an idol. Are you telling us, that avoiding to make Jesus as an idol, muslims fall into idolatry of taking Muhammad as an idol?

 

[swariffin]

Hi

There are several nations in the world, not the Jewish and the Romans only. From Galilee Jesus alongwith Mary after the event of Crucifixion went to eastward to preach his gospel among the 10tribes of the House of Israel. He vistied Persia, Afghanistan, India, Tibet and Kashmir. So for history please also see the history of these nations.

Jews though believe that they killed/executed Jesus on Cross but they don’t believe that Jesus was resurrected from the dead. No Jew , I think, would witness that.

Kindly make amendments in your historical concepts accordingly.

You may if you like access:
Did Jesus die on the Cross? a BBC documentary
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1669658378154953060&q

Thanks

Dear Paar,

That is true that there are nations in the world beside Romans and the Jewish only. For instance, the Chinese. What any other nations has to do with Jesus, especially the Chinese?

 

[FaithofAbraham]

I don’t see the relationship of Jesus as the cornerstone and Ka’baa and ZamZam. When Jesus told the parable of himself being the cornerstone, he meant about himself. If you take the issue of Ka’baa and Zamzam and relate that to Jesus, I know nothing about.

When you said the muslims are afraid of making an idol of him, in other posting you mentioned that the muslims take Muhammad as an idol. Are you telling us, that avoiding to make Jesus as an idol, muslims fall into idolatry of taking Muhammad as an idol?

The Kaaba is shaped like a cube and thought to be the dwelling of God and contains the Black Stone from Heaven. If more Muslims bothered to read the Bible they would see in Revelation that New Jerusalem is also shaped like a cube and the dwelling of God and Jesus. They would see Jesus is the rejected cornerstone in Matthew. And the stone from Heaven in Daniel that smashes the idol statue of Nebchadnezzar’s dream. The rock that gave water in Exodus. And so on.

They also believe Zamzam near the Kaaba is the water of life that saved Ishmael as told in Genesis. New Jerusalem has the River of Life running through it.

So there are a lot of signs pointing to Jesus as the way to everlasting life for Muslims to see if they picked up the Bible. But they are too busy treating the Kaaba and the Black Stone like idols to see the signs in them.

So as they criticize Christian idolatry for obscuring the real view of Jesus, their own idolatry does the same.

 

[paarsurrey]

Dear Paar,
That is true that there are nations in the world beside Romans and the Jewish only. For instance, the Chinese. What any other nations has to do with Jesus, especially the Chinese?

Hi

Since Jesus went to Persia, Afghanistan, India, Tibet and Kashmir, so that establishes his relationship with these countries. Hence we shall have to look up into the history of those times; may be the present day Catholics don’t like it, but we should be liberal enough to allow Jesus to go anywhere he liked, after all he was a free soul, and he was not bound by the thoughts of the people at Rome or their descendants.

Please don’t mind my difference with you . I respect your religion.

Thanks

 

[Reuben_J]

The Kaaba is shaped like a cube and thought to be the dwelling of God and contains the Black Stone from Heaven. If more Muslims bothered to read the Bible they would see in Revelation that New Jerusalem is also shaped like a cube and the dwelling of God and Jesus. They would see Jesus is the rejected cornerstone in Matthew. And the stone from Heaven in Daniel that smashes the idol statue of Nebchadnezzar’s dream. The rock that gave water in Exodus. And so on.

They also believe Zamzam near the Kaaba is the water of life that saved Ishmael as told in Genesis. New Jerusalem has the River of Life running through it.

So there are a lot of signs pointing to Jesus as the way to everlasting life for Muslims to see if they picked up the Bible. But they are too busy treating the Kaaba and the Black Stone like idols to see the signs in them.

So as they criticize Christian idolatry for obscuring the real view of Jesus, their own idolatry does the same.

Pure conjecture on your part with no evidence of truth at all. Because what you say is something very unconventional I have difficulty in understanding what you’re trying to say.

 

[Reuben_J]

So that’s all true Biblical irony: they make an idol of the thing telling them to turn to Jesus but they won’t turn completely to Jesus because they are afraid of making an idol of him.

Sorry if I sound rather harsh with you in my previous post. I try to address this - Muslims do not know how to turn completely to Jesus because there is insufficient materials on Jesus there.

No. 2. The Quran is very clear in stating that Jesus is just a prophet, an ordinary human being. I can’t fault the Muslims of being afraid of making an idol of him, because they want to avoid what the Christians do.

However, the whole premise is wrong. Infromation on Jesus in the Quran is both errorneous and sparse. There is no way for Muslims to know Jesus as who He is if they rely entirely on the Quran. They have to turn to the Bible for that.

 

[Reuben_J]

Hi

Since Jesus went to Persia, Afghanistan, India, Tibet and Kashmir, …

Please don’t mind my difference with you . I respect your religion.

Thanks

This is imagination running very wild. I advice you to turn to the Bible and listen to the words of Jesus himself.

**Mathew 24
23At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.

26"So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the desert,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.**
In other word, do not believe anyone who says it.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Pure conjecture on your part with no evidence of truth at all. Because what you say is something very unconventional I have difficulty in understanding what you’re trying to say.

God puts signs in the world so we can see them, it’s all pretty Biblical.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Sorry if I sound rather harsh with you in my previous post. I try to address this - Muslims do not know how to turn completely to Jesus because there is insufficient materials on Jesus there.

Quran 3:3 says Torah and Gospels were sent by God, so they should be reading those too.

No. 2. The Quran is very clear in stating that Jesus is just a prophet, an ordinary human being. I can’t fault the Muslims of being afraid of making an idol of him, because they want to avoid what the Christians do.

The Quran says Jesus is Messiah, and Messiah in the Bible is human king of David who makes atonement for the people as a priest of Melchizedek. And a prophet like Moses too. The point of the Quran is that we shouldn’t make him a demigod of Egyptian or Greek or Roman mythology.

However, the whole premise is wrong. Infromation on Jesus in the Quran is both errorneous and sparse. There is no way for Muslims to know Jesus as who He is if they rely entirely on the Quran. They have to turn to the Bible for that.

That’s right, they should. Mohammed only confirms it is all true.

Quran 3:3 It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong).

 

[Reuben_J]

God puts signs in the world so we can see them, it’s all pretty Biblical.

Everything is very clear after Jesus. We do not need any more signs. What is important is to focus in doing good and to believe in the word of God. The only major spiritual and decisive event that is to come will be the glorious coming of Jesus as the Judge and King. If one is ready, that is by believing and obeying his commandment, then there is nothing to fear and to confuse.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Everything is very clear after Jesus. We do not need any more signs. What is important is to focus in doing good and to believe in the word of God. The only major spiritual and decisive event that is to come will be the glorious coming of Jesus as the Judge and King. If one is ready, that is by believing and obeying his commandment, then there is nothing to fear and to confuse.

The choir might not need signs. The rest of the world needs all it can get. As I was just posting about Jews, possibly 99.05% of all Jews on earth deny Jesus. What happens to all of them if Jesus is the only way to salvation and they don’t see the signs in their own Tanach?

So if the Muslims have this place Mecca with a cube that is a house for God and a rock from Heaven with water of life, and Revelation says that New Jerusalem is shaped like a cube and a house for God and Jesus and the River of Life, Muslims need to be told of that sign so they can get closer to Jesus, don’t you think?

 

[Reuben_J]

Quran 3:3 says Torah and Gospels were sent by God, so they should be reading those too.

There must be a catch somewhere when you’re saying this. Which Bible? Which Torah?

The Quran says Jesus is Messiah, and Messiah in the Bible is human king of David who makes atonement for the people as a priest of Melchizedek. And a prophet like Moses too.

A truly simplistic assumption and an erroneous one at that. You miss out where Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world.

The point of the Quran is that we shouldn’t make him a demigod of Egyptian or Greek or Roman mythology.

The Quran can make this point but it certainly is not talking about Christians! The explanation on the second person of the Trinity has been done countless of times here. If you do not understand it, I think you’re merely pretending, like what most Muslim apologists do. They pretend not to notice our explanation and then make the same accusation.

Christians do not make a demigod of Jesus. As simple as that.

That’s right, they should. Mohammed only confirms it is all true.

Quran 3:3 It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong).

We know there are many instances where the Quran is wrong in its interpretation, understanding and in facts. So what Mohammad said is unreliable.

Anyway, what’s mentioned about Jesus in the Quran is insufficient in order for Muslims to model their lives after him. There are no details of his teachings on important matters and on life. I feel Muslims do not know what they are saying when they say they want to follow Jesus.

 

[Reuben_J]

The choir might not need signs. The rest of the world needs all it can get. As I was just posting about Jews, possibly 99.05% of all Jews on earth deny Jesus. What happens to all of them if Jesus is the only way to salvation and they don’t see the signs in their own Tanach?

I’ll admit that I am not familiar with what you’re talking about. I have heard this argument many times from Muslims about the sign of Jonah. Of course I don’t agree with them. But the signs you’re talking about is simply not discussed in our circle unless of course if I miss it.

However, Jesus himself is the sign. Any others are pure conjecture. The Kaabah was never mentioned by Jesus. It is you who attribute it as the cornerstone that Jesus spoke about. And I’m not about to listen to you now until such a time you provide evidence for this. There is no evidence however. Your Geography is wrong too. Abraham could not have gone to Mecca when he was residing in Canaan.

BTW, all the apostles were Jews and most of the early Christians and they were not deprived of salvation. Early archeological findings confirmed that large community of Jews became Christians.

So if the Muslims have this place Mecca with a cube that is a house for God and a rock from Heaven with water of life, and Revelation says that New Jerusalem is shaped like a cube and a house for God and Jesus and the River of Life, Muslims need to be told of that sign so they can get closer to Jesus, don’t you think?

Baloney Italia pasta!

The Bible is the book that Muslims should read and then perhaps enrol with the RCIA. It is as simple as that. The deviation was done by Mohammad in the seventh century to take away attention from the real Jesus.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

The Bible is the book that Muslims should read and then perhaps enrol with the RCIA. It is as simple as that. The deviation was done by Mohammad in the seventh century to take away attention from the real Jesus.

A lot of people say that about Christianity and all the traditions added to it, and all the violence and corruption it has had, from Inquisitions to sex scandals to phony TV preachers and people babbling and saying it is tongues, all discrediting and diverting from Jesus.

Islam and Christianity will both end when Jesus returns anyway.

 

[paarsurrey]

The deviation was done by Mohammad in the seventh century to take away attention from the real Jesus.

Hi

I think that is not a correct analysis. Muhammad never deviated from what Jesus himself believed, rather he revived Jesus’ true beliefs. Had Muhammad deviated from the personal beliefs of Jesus he would have used hate words for him ,his mother Mary and the twelve Apostles? But he respected them rather loved them.

It is Muhammad’s love for Jesus that he prophesised that Jesus Second Coming would not be in the Catholics, but in Islam as a follower of Muhammad and a CaliphSuccessor of him.

This way Muhammad focussed attention to Jesus.

I think you should revise your view point.

Thanks

 

[Reuben_J]

Hi

I think that is not a correct analysis. Muhammad never deviated from what Jesus himself believed, rather he revived Jesus’ true beliefs. Had Muhammad deviated from the personal beliefs of Jesus he would have used hate words for him ,his mother Mary and the twelve Apostles? But he respected them rather loved them.

It is Muhammad’s love for Jesus that he prophesised that Jesus Second Coming would not be in the Catholics

, but in Islam as a follower of Muhammad and a CaliphSuccessor of him.

This way Muhammad focussed attention to Jesus.

I think you should revise your view point.

Thanks
Mohammad did not know what Jesus true belief is. None of Jesus teachings were to be found in the Quran. How can you say you follow the true teachings of Jesus when you even do not know his teachngs?

I have more to say on this subject, but this is enough for you to address at the moment. You know, I don’t want to confuse you with a long post and I don’t want you to to pretend that you don’t read what I post.

So again, what are Jesus teachings that you mentioned about that Mohammad followed and taught in the Quran?

I will be glad to hear you answering this.

Thank you.

 

[Reuben_J]

A lot of people say that about Christianity and all the traditions added to it, and all the violence and corruption it has had, from Inquisitions to sex scandals to phony TV preachers and people babbling and saying it is tongues, all discrediting and diverting from Jesus.

Islam and Christianity will both end when Jesus returns anyway.

Do not blame Christianity and the Christians who made it a bad name.

I said the Bible. You guys should learn the Bible because that’s where the divine wisdom is. You can dismiss this like all the others before you but it does not change the fact that the secret to your salvation is to be found in the Bible.

Yes, that only mattters - when Jesus comes as the ultimate Judge and King. You would only be prepared to His coming only if you heed the word of the Messiah Himself. You do not find His word in the Quran unfortunately. For that you have to turn to the Bible.