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FaithofAbraham
Guest
Of course I cast some blame to Christians who made it a bad name. But I have said all along here that Muslims need to accept the Bible in order to understand the Quran.
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
GodAllahYHWH revealed on Muhammad Jesus’ true bliefs for which I quote from Quran:
[5:110] Think of the day when Allah will assemble the Messengers and say, ‘What was the reply made to you?’ They will say, 'We have no knowledge, it is only Thou Who art the Knower of hidden things.
[5:111] When Allah will say, 'O Jesus son of Mary, remember My favour upon thee and upon thy mother; When I strengthened thee with the spirit of holiness so that thou didst speak to the people in the cradle and when of middle age; and when I taught thee the Book and the wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and when thou didst fashion a creation out of clay, in the likeness of a bird, by My command; then thou didst breathe into it a new spirit and it became a soaring being by My command; and thou didst heal the night-blind and the leprous by My command; and when thou didst raise the dead by My command; and when I restrained the Children of Israel from putting thee to death when thou didst come to them with clear Signs; and those who disbelieved from among them said, ‘This is nothing but clear deception.’
[5:112] And remember My favour when I inspired the disciples saying, ‘Believe in ME and My Messenger,’ they said, ‘We believe and bear Thou witness that we have submitted.’
[5:113] When the disciples said, 'O Jesus, son of Mary, is thy Lord able to send down to us a table spread with food from heaven? He said, ‘Fear Allah, if you are believers.’
[5:114] They said, ‘We desire that we may eat of it, and that our hearts may be at rest and that we may know that thou hast spoken the truth to us, and that we may be witness thereto.’
[5:115] Said Jesus, son of Mary, ‘O Allah, our Lord, send down to us a table from heaven spread with food that it may be to us a festival, to the first of us and to the last of us and a Sign from THeE; and provide sustenance for us, for THOU art the Best of Sustainers.’
[5:116] Allah said, ‘Surely I will send it down to you; but whosoever of you disbelieves afterwards - I will surely punish them with a punishment wherewith I will not punish any other of the peoples.’ **
[5:117] And when Allah will say, 'O Jesus, son of Mary, didst thou say to men, ‘Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?’ he will answer, 'Holy art THOU, I could never say that which I had no right. If I had said it, Thou wouldst have surely known it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy mind. It is Thou alone Who art the Knower of all hidden things;
[5:118] 'I said nothing to them except that which Thou didst command me - Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I remained among them, but since Thou didst cause me to die, Thou, hast been the Watcher over them, and Thou art Witness over all things; **
[5:119] 'If Thou punish them, they are Thy servants; and if Thou forgive them, Thou surely art the Mighty, the Wise. ’
www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=5&verse=109
These are the teachings given to Jesus by GodAllahYHWH, and Muhammad’s teachings were no different, rather according to it.
Thanks
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dolphinlove
Guest
Paarsurrey,
Jesus’ true teachings are in the bible, not in the quran.
This is the Christian belief, and the true belief.
Jesus’ true teachings are in the bible, not in the quran.
This is the Christian belief, and the true belief.
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paarsurrey
Guest
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Reuben_J
Guest
[5:119] 'If Thou punish them, they are Thy servants; and if Thou forgive them, Thou surely art the Mighty, the Wise. ’
www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=5&verse=109
These are the teachings given to Jesus by GodAllahYHWH, and Muhammad’s teachings were no different, rather according to it.
Thanks
I take the teaching as the one you bolded. My friend, you can do much better than that. That’s no teaching at all.
Those are just statements which will not change your life very much. I don’t know if by this teaching it is suficient for you to live a life that will get you into heaven.
You still have to go to the Gospel to find a more comprehensive teachings of Jesus. Things that tell you on how to live a life.
Is there anymore teaching of Jesus in the Quran? Or you are just trying to comply, albiet insufficiently, my request for you to furnish such teachings?
You see, how a claim can be so hollow. You said Mohammad followed Jesus teachings and yet you don’t know what are the most important teaching of Jesus is. You don’t know what Jesus said and did when the sinful, the sick and the hopeless came to him. You don’t know about Jesus compassion so that you can follow his example. You don’t know what it mean to follow Jesus. And so on and so forth. Because none of these are recorded in the Quran.
You also don’t know what are abominations to Jesus. You don’t know what he hate. And the list go on.
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inJESUS
Guest
before we focus on any Kaaba comparison, shouldn’t we determine if it is indeed a house of God built by Abraham? is this mentioned in any scriptures, any teachings, or archeology books outside the Islamic circles? do the Jews ot Christians in their traditions mention it? who mentions it beside Muslims?
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juliamajor
Guest
The Book of Revelation is like a code book-many signs and symbols were written into it-It is an apocalyptic writing which means vivid imagery and metaphor-numbers are symbolic- 144,000 are multiples of 12.Symbolism.CC in the catechism has very little to say.check articles662-682 for the real story.Whole thing can be summed up-be ready! you never know when your individual judgment will be or when the world’s judgment will be. 
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FaithofAbraham
Guest
I don’t think there’s any way to know who built it.
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planten
Guest
Let us forget who built Ka’abah. Look to the topic of second coming of Jesus. As I see it per NT bible, Jesus himself will never come back gain in this world.
Before Jesus, we were told that elias will come. Elias never came himself. John the baptist came in his place. So this is an example for all such cases of second coming. It is a direct teaching of the bible that those once gone will not come back.
Now look at it from the Muslim’s view point. The prophet Muhammad told about the coming of the son of Maryam in a very important authentic Hadith. It goes like this:
I swear by the One in whose hand is my life (i.e. Allah), Isa son of Maryam will surely land amongst you as a just judge. He will break the cross and kill the swine…"
The Muslim leaders interpret this Hadith that Isa will come and he will explain the truth about the cross and christianity and he will kill or silence the swine type of people.
This Hadith is showing that all matters are symbolic (metaphorical). They are not real, even Jesus is not really the same Jesus.
Before Jesus, we were told that elias will come. Elias never came himself. John the baptist came in his place. So this is an example for all such cases of second coming. It is a direct teaching of the bible that those once gone will not come back.
Now look at it from the Muslim’s view point. The prophet Muhammad told about the coming of the son of Maryam in a very important authentic Hadith. It goes like this:
I swear by the One in whose hand is my life (i.e. Allah), Isa son of Maryam will surely land amongst you as a just judge. He will break the cross and kill the swine…"
The Muslim leaders interpret this Hadith that Isa will come and he will explain the truth about the cross and christianity and he will kill or silence the swine type of people.
This Hadith is showing that all matters are symbolic (metaphorical). They are not real, even Jesus is not really the same Jesus.
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FaithofAbraham
Guest
John had the spirit of Elijah poured on him as Elisha did. Elijah may come again for real as one of the Two Prophets killed by the Beast.
Jesus said he would come back in the clouds with angels, Revelation says he will do battle with Antichrist.
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
I quote here a prohecy of Muhammad for descent of Messiah (Jesus or Son of Mary or in Arabic Ibne Maryam) which is Second Coming of Jesus.
First Hadith
Arabic Text in Roman Alphabet:Yushaku man aasha minkum ianyulka eisabna maryama imamun mahduyyun , hakamun iadualun yakserus saleba wa yaktulul khinzera.
One who would be alive (at that time), he would meet Issa (JesusYeshua) s/o Maryam (MaryMerium) in the position of ImamMahdi (DivineGuided), a truthful judge (among faiths/religions); he would break the Cross (with arguments) and kill the swine. (Masnad Ahmad 156/2)
Second Hadith
Abu Hurairah narrated from the Prophet Muhammad SAW that he said:
I swear by Him in whose hands rests my life or death that you would definitely witness advent of the Ibne Maryam (Son of Mary); a truthful judge (among faiths/religions), he would break the Cross (with arguments) and kill the swine and suspend the war (for religious conversion).
(Bukhari Kitabul Anbeya, Bab Nazul-e Essa Ibne Maryam)
As and Ahmadi peaceful Muslim, I believe that this Prophecy of Muhammad has been fullfilled in the form of the PromisedMessiah 1838-1908.
I think you agree with me.
Thanks
I quote here a prohecy of Muhammad for descent of Messiah (Jesus or Son of Mary or in Arabic Ibne Maryam) which is Second Coming of Jesus.
First Hadith
Arabic Text in Roman Alphabet:Yushaku man aasha minkum ianyulka eisabna maryama imamun mahduyyun , hakamun iadualun yakserus saleba wa yaktulul khinzera.
One who would be alive (at that time), he would meet Issa (JesusYeshua) s/o Maryam (MaryMerium) in the position of ImamMahdi (DivineGuided), a truthful judge (among faiths/religions); he would break the Cross (with arguments) and kill the swine. (Masnad Ahmad 156/2)
Second Hadith
Abu Hurairah narrated from the Prophet Muhammad SAW that he said:
I swear by Him in whose hands rests my life or death that you would definitely witness advent of the Ibne Maryam (Son of Mary); a truthful judge (among faiths/religions), he would break the Cross (with arguments) and kill the swine and suspend the war (for religious conversion).
(Bukhari Kitabul Anbeya, Bab Nazul-e Essa Ibne Maryam)
As and Ahmadi peaceful Muslim, I believe that this Prophecy of Muhammad has been fullfilled in the form of the PromisedMessiah 1838-1908.
I think you agree with me.
Thanks
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FaithofAbraham
Guest
I take Hadith with a grain of salt but I think if it means anything it is that Jesus returns to kill the Beast as it says in Revelation, which is the swine filled with demons united as one voice Legion and drowned, like Babylon of Revelation is likened to being cast into the sea as a great millstone.
And also that Jesus tells us to worship God alone, not the cross which is like the brass serpent Moses made – which had the power of God to heal people but was not God as Jesus compared himself to – turned into the idol Nehushtan that King Hezekiah smashed. Hezekiah is also seen as symbolic of Messiah in the Bible.
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Reuben_J
Guest
I do not wish to look gloating over your differences but instead of engaging in a fruitless assumption and guessing (FaithofAbraham being the exception here), let hear something more definite from the mouth of Jesus himself. After all, it is him we are talking about – his second coming.
**Mt 24
30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
Mk13
26"At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.
Lk 21
25"There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 27At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.**
The prophecy of the coming of Jesus is reported in at least three Gospels, which indicate its importance that it merits the attention of three Gospel writers.
**Mt 24
30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
Mk13
26"At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.
Lk 21
25"There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 27At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.**
The prophecy of the coming of Jesus is reported in at least three Gospels, which indicate its importance that it merits the attention of three Gospel writers.
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planten
Guest
**The Mathews 24:30 and Mark 13:26 refer to Muhammad only. He is the real son of man. Jesus is not son of man. He is counted as son of god. I am sure that the words of Mathews apply to Muhammad. It was Muhammad who sounded the loud trumpet and made a call all around. people from the four corners of the world gathered around him.
These words have proved true in the person of muhammad. Thanks for posting.**
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Kitty_Chan
Guest
Only to toss out another thought here, Im pretty sure its not been brought up.
But what are the logical consequences of actually knowing that Jesus would return on; lets say July 15 at 12 noon Greenwich time in 2009? or 3009?
This is the reason He didnt tell us. We would be all mad and frothing at the mouth by the time He arrived. If it was next yr then Im sure world peace would happen, everyone trying to “get in” and all. If it was 3009 then all would go to that place in a hand basket, because why worrry about it til then??
The purpose was said. We are to live each day as if it will happen at any moment. That is what prepares us for eternity. Because that too, can happen at any moment for us individually.
God always thinking.
But what are the logical consequences of actually knowing that Jesus would return on; lets say July 15 at 12 noon Greenwich time in 2009? or 3009?
This is the reason He didnt tell us. We would be all mad and frothing at the mouth by the time He arrived. If it was next yr then Im sure world peace would happen, everyone trying to “get in” and all. If it was 3009 then all would go to that place in a hand basket, because why worrry about it til then??
The purpose was said. We are to live each day as if it will happen at any moment. That is what prepares us for eternity. Because that too, can happen at any moment for us individually.
God always thinking.
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Reuben_J
Guest
Well, the second sentence in your post is definitely going to warm the hearts here.
Now regarding Christianity today.
Yes, there are immorality and violence in what you supposedly called the Christian world.
However, on closer analysis, actually, it is not so.
These are the people who have been overcome by the ‘world’ which is under the influenced of the Evil One. Materialism and affluence have caused them to worship false gods in the guise of power, wealth and sex. They think they have everything when actually they are empty inside. Nothing can replace the love of Jesus as fulfillment of our deepest needs. That’s why you see violence and sexual immorality abound because people are in a search for fulfillment which they cannot have.
Satan message such as Jesus did not die for our sin trivializes sin. People stray from the righteous path of Jesus because sin is considered no big deal. Everybody does it and therefore it is alright. If you don’t believe that the Son of God died for you so that you can be saved, you would not see sin as a very serious thing.
Worse, we have the infusion of Mohammad’s effect – lust, revenge and lying become the accepted norm because the great prophet pbuh (sic) had all these attributes himself. What kind of examples indeed are these that he gave to the people to model their lives on?
If you say Christianity is bad, Islamic world fares no better. Violence and sexual violence and perversion are equally rampant there.
The only way to overcome this is to turn away from evil and instead to seek Jesus, who is the Way, the truth and the Life, who is a great Teacher and a great Master and who is able to restore, heal and sanctify you. No other names are higher than the name of Jesus, where every knee must bows and every tongue must confess that He is Lord. He is the Lord of your sickness, brokenness, loneliness and misery. And He can take all these away if you turn to Him and believe. All glory and honor is for Him and Him alone.
Thus Christianity is still a necessary vehicle for us to be saved. Look at the real fruit of Christianity. We have notable few this century. Some figures worth mentioned, who are generally accepted by people across the board as exemplary human being, are names like the late John Paul II and Mother Teresa.
Peace.
Reuben
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FaithofAbraham
Guest
I think Islam and Christianity are both vehicles, for different reasons. And one is not really better than the other as far as morality of its members, at different times in history both have been violent, perverted, etc.
I’m not sure I agree with Mother Teresa if she was really much an atheist or agnostic the last part of her life but yet allowed people to think she was a faithful saint full of belief. A lot of people I know say that has a negative impact on their own faith, when someone like that is put on high a pedestal then it is revealed they didn’t quite live up to the reputation built around them.
To me it recalls this:
Matthew 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
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dolphinlove
Guest
I guess Muhammad is from the planet kolob as well.
Anyway, getting back to the point here, i think you need to keep an open mind about what is written in the bible and NOWHERE in it does it say anything, mention anything, hint anything, or suggest anything about Muhammad.
Muhammad may think of himself as something superior, but i can tell you he is probably a pretty sorry fellow for spreading lies about God’s true intention and God’s true church… The Catholic church!
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Reuben_J
Guest
I know, but Jesus has a solution for all of us. That’s what I am saying. Come to Jesus because He is the Lord to restore you and I of all our brokenness, our loneliness, our hurts, our resentment, our broken relationship with our loved ones, our sicknesses and our sins. Because he is the same yesterday, today and forever. He did that when he walked around the district of Galilee and he still is doing it now. Only if we believe.
I have seen many Muslims who came to our prayer meeting seeking Jesus, and Jesus touched them and restored them. Some of them were never the same again after the experience. The y knew Jesus and believed in him.
I respect your freedom to disagree about Mother Teresa. Many people don’t agree like you, and for various reasons.
But generally many people do think Mother Teresa is the good fruit of Christianity. It’s about love, the sacrificial love that she gave for the benefit of other people and not herself. I know, I know, you can say that she did what she did with an ulterior motive that self serving and self centred. Well, as for me, and many more Catholics like me, if there are more people are like her, I sure am not minding it too much.
Incidently, I have seen many of Mother Teresa sayings and prayers being quoted by many Muslims as examplary wisdom to be pondered and to be followed. I don’t know why. At one conference I was surprised that a prominent Muslim in his presentation use many of Mother Teresa sayings to back his own talk. Maybe they recognized the virtue that this simple woman epitomized.
I’m not in agreement with you that we can know the hearts of people. Surely it must be between God and them. BTW, what it means by their heart is far from me is they don’t obey the word of God. Not that their hearts is far from God. Funny, you really have to go into the heart of God to know what he is saying.
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Lev23
Guest
100% wrong. Jesus will come back to rescue Israel from Satan and the nations that go up against Israel.
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