Seeking a Convalidation. HELP!

[wanner47]

OP, I’m confused about an aspect of your situation and I’d like you to clarify, please.

When you say you want to get married “outside,” do you mean “outside the Catholic Church” (as in, getting married in a non-Catholic church by non-Catholic clergy officiating) or do you meant “outside” as in “outdoors”? (Or do you mean both?)

In either situation, though, your fiance would need to contact his local diocese and request a dispensation from canonical form from the bishop. Whether or not this will be granted depends on the bishop, but it is the only way you two could be married outside the Church or outside a church and still remain in good standing with the Catholic Church.

Is your fiance an active Catholic? Does he attend Mass every Sunday? I’m trying to understand why he doesn’t have a priest he can talk to.

 

[mljaustin]

Thanks so much for the two previous responses for being so warm about this. Some of y’all are just plain mean.

I hadn’t thought about the vows in the church before then going outside. Something to consider, though I think the fundamental issue he has is still there.

I wish to have a ceremony outdoors. Performed by my Pastor.

He does not attend regularaly. In fact, we have attended only 4 times in the past year on important holidays. I go with him and his family (no i don’t take communion)

 

[nicolep]

As other posters have said, please don’t let your fiancé leave the Church based on what has been said in this thread.

While this forum can be supportive and informative, no one here is a Canon Law Lawyer. As suggested, please contact a priest. If your fiancé doesn’t have a parish, you can call the parish closest to you to set up an appointment.

Good for you on wanting to find out the steps necessary. A lot of people wouldn’t want to go through that for a faith they didn’t practice. It shows that you have a lot of respect for your fiancé and that’s a good place to start.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Thanks so much for the two previous responses for being so warm about this. Some of y’all are just plain mean. It might seem that way, but you came in on a heated discussion in anther thread. We’re all older than you, well most of us anyway, and we want what’s best for you and your young man.

I hadn’t thought about the vows in the church before then going outside. Something to consider, though I think the fundamental issue he has is still there.

I wish to have a ceremony outdoors. Performed by my Pastor. OK. Then what he is looking for is dispensation. He needs two of them: One to marry you because you are not Catholic, and one to get married outside the form of the Catholic Church (with a big C, the guys at the Vatican). He can get these either from somebody at his territorial parish, whihc is around where he lives; or he can call the chanery for more information. Here is the link to the Diocese of Austin.
http://www.austindiocese.org/department_home.php?id=11#Preparing

All the other stuff you said is superfulous, extra. If he is staying Catholic, this is where you start.

Unfortunately, you can’t just erase what you wrote, once it’s been there awhile it’s permanent here at CAF. But good to know for future users, right, so you’ve helped another human being in the process! Long life and much success!

 

[mljaustin]

Thank you Kristin M for the idea of exchanging vows in the church prior (as there are no sacraments that it has to be a big bang with decorations and such). My future husband was thankful for this idea. It keeps to his sacrament and baptism while still holding true the marriage ceremony outside for my very important reasons as well.

As for his feelings on the Cathlic Church, unfortunately I think he is still considering leaving as this experience has scared him tremendously.

BTW - Someone once gave me some wonderful piece of information (our Lord, our God) created earth. Therefore, getting married outdoors is in our “God’s cathedral” among everything he created. Not in some man made marble.

Peace be with all of you.

 

[wanner47]

Thanks so much for the two previous responses for being so warm about this. Some of y’all are just plain mean.

I hadn’t thought about the vows in the church before then going outside. Something to consider, though I think the fundamental issue he has is still there.

I wish to have a ceremony outdoors. Performed by my Pastor.

He does not attend regularaly. In fact, we have attended only 4 times in the past year on important holidays. I go with him and his family (no i don’t take communion)

Okay, that clarifies things. Thank you.

First of all, as I said above, your fiance would need to seek a dispensation from canonical form from his local diocese. If he is not currently a registered parish member, he should talk to the diocesan office in Austin.

Now, it sounds like your fiance is not an active, practicing Catholic. I commend both of you for wishing to nonetheless obey the laws of the Catholic Church, as most non-practicing Catholics don’t even bother. Thank you, and thank you also for respecting the Church’s law and refraining from communion when you do attend Mass. It’s *very *much appreciated.

That being said (and apologies for going slightly off-topic), your fiance is supposed to attend Mass every weekend under Church law. (More on that here.) If he’s not attending weekly, and he doesn’t have a just reason to miss Mass (e.g., illness or care of an infant) it’s dangerous for him (that is, dangerous to his soul) to receive the Eucharist (more on that here).

Blessings to you and your fiance as you prepare for your marriage.

 

[wanner47]

Thank you Kristin M for the idea of exchanging vows in the church prior (as there are no sacraments that it has to be a big bang with decorations and such). My future husband was thankful for this idea. It keeps to his sacrament and baptism while still holding true the marriage ceremony outside for my very important reasons as well.

As for his feelings on the Cathlic Church, unfortunately I think he is still considering leaving as this experience has scared him tremendously.

That’s unfortunate. Why is he scared, specifically?

BTW - Someone once gave me some wonderful piece of information (our Lord, our God) created earth. Therefore, getting married outdoors is in our “God’s cathedral” among everything he created. Not in some man made marble.

I see your point! Nature is certainly beautiful.

I wonder, though, why would you want to get married outdoors when you can get married in the very presence of the One who *created * the outdoors?

You see, Catholics believe that Jesus Christ is really and truly present in the Holy Eucharist, and thus the body and blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ is really and truly present in every single Church. Just think – when a wedding is in a Catholic Church, Jesus isn’t just there in spriit, He’s there physically as well! Isn’t that amazing?

 

[Thomas63116]

Hold on. Please understand its more to do with marrying “outside” as in outside the faith without a dispenstation then physically marrying outside a building (though this is also highly discouraged and you need permission for it since your vows should be made in God’s house but i have heard a few rare cases where the couple has recieved permission to do it. You have to ask though.)

I know that. But I’m trying to help people understand the OP’s perspectives.

I think her thought process is: “What matters is our marriage, not where the wedding ceremony takes place. Therefore, I don’t see why it should be a problem for the church to let us marry outside.”

Other people sem to be saying “What matters is the marriage, not where the wedding ceremony takes place. Therefore, it should not be a problem for you to marry in a church, rather than outdoors.”

They’re talking past each other. I know the rules are there for good reasons. But sometimes people act as though the rules are ends in themselves. I think people, especially those who are not Catholic, can find that very frustrating.

 

[beckers]

I know that. But I’m trying to help people understand the OP’s perspectives.

I think her thought process is: “What matters is our marriage, not where the wedding ceremony takes place. Therefore, I don’t see why it should be a problem for the church to let us marry outside.”

Other people sem to be saying “What matters is the marriage, not where the wedding ceremony takes place. Therefore, it should not be a problem for you to marry in a church, rather than outdoors.”

They’re talking past each other. I know the rules are there for good reasons. But sometimes people act as though the rules are ends in themselves. I think people, especially those who are not Catholic, can find that very frustrating.

You would be correct. i think people were talking past each other.

 

[happymommy]

You would be correct. i think people were talking past each other.

I think there was some of that, but I also feel she didn’t want to hear anything that went against how she feels or what she believes. She became defensive with the first post and it went down hill from there.
I don’t think her boyfriend has a very strong faith and this is not going to help that! But I think their first step should have been to contact a priest not post here to get peoples opinions. If you don’t want to hear the answer, don’t ask the question.

 

[beckers]

I think there was some of that, but I also feel she didn’t want to hear anything that went against how she feels or what she believes. She became defensive with the first post and it went down hill from there.
I don’t think her boyfriend has a very strong faith and this is not going to help that! But I think their first step should have been to contact a priest not post here to get peoples opinions. If you don’t want to hear the answer, don’t ask the question.

Yes we seem to have had a lot of those posters today.

To the OP. I know things have got to be busy with planning a wedding but i would suggest that you and your future husband find out what catholicism is all about. Maybe both of you take RCIA together or reading catholic for dummies or any number of other books or resources here at catholic answers. I think you would both benefit in a fuller understand of the faith before he makes a decision to leave the church.

BTW the really cermony will happen in the church. Marriage is a sacrament. Its the only one that doesn’t come from anyone but the two people profession in front of God to be together until do you part. I so wish you could understand the beauty that is marriage. Man you would be blown away by all the significates.
Once again may god bless your marriage.

 

[Thomas63116]

I think there was some of that, but I also feel she didn’t want to hear anything that went against how she feels or what she believes. She became defensive with the first post and it went down hill from there.
I don’t think her boyfriend has a very strong faith and this is not going to help that! But I think their first step should have been to contact a priest not post here to get peoples opinions. If you don’t want to hear the answer, don’t ask the question.

She did become a bit defensive after the first post. But to be fair, the first reply that she received suggested that she only cares about pretty pictures and seemed to use the term “Protestant” as an insult. Subsequent responses suggested that she was secretly trying to lead her fiance away from the faith.

We have questions like this fairly often, and instead of asking some questions of the OP to clarify the situation, some people make a lot of assumptions. Often the OP ends up feeling attacked and aliented, when that doesn’t have to be the case.

I agree that they should have find a priest to talk to. I still believe that is the best advice out there for them. But it doesn’t sound like they had an obvious priest for them to go to and I don’t blame them for wanting to reasearch their options.

 

[Phemie]

Yes we seem to have had a lot of those posters today.

To the OP. I know things have got to be busy with planning a wedding but i would suggest that you and your future husband find out what catholicism is all about. Maybe both of you take RCIA together or reading catholic for dummies or any number of other books or resources here at catholic answers. I think you would both benefit in a fuller understand of the faith before he makes a decision to leave the church.

BTW the really cermony will happen in the church. Marriage is a sacrament. Its the only one that doesn’t come from anyone but the two people profession in front of God to be together until do you part. I so wish you could understand the beauty that is marriage. Man you would be blown away by all the significates.
Once again may god bless your marriage.

The OP has stated that she’s non-denominational. She may not be baptized which means that regardless of where or how the marriage takes place it’s not a sacrament.

OP, all the people I’ve known who’ve asked for a dispensation to get married in the non-Catholic spouse’s church have been granted it.

Once the Catholic Church says “Yes, you can get married in the Church” then it doesn’t matter where the wedding takes place. As long as your fiancé receives permission to marry in your Church, your pastor can marry you wherever he wants: outdoors, underwater, etc.

 

[rolltidefan]

dang the more of these posts that I read, all I can think of is WOW. It is amazing. I agree completely with Thomas here. She asked a question that was not at all putting down the Catholic church. She was not being critical at all with her question. And the very first response she got was very critical. Like Thomas said, even having to say something about protestants and etc. Why do the Catholics here not see that? Then after that response was made, that is when the OP got upset and rightfully so I might add. Then, when she reponds that was not very nice…well then she is attacked, oh well she didn’t like what we had to say. No, I don’t think that was the problem…the problem is the manner in which some of you are putting it. There have been several here that have stated what she needed to do in a MUCH nicer manner. Thank God most of us protestants here can tell which ones those are and pay more attention to what you have to say and then not even pay attention to the other responses.

I hope everything works out for you. I myself had a brother that passed away and I very much wanted him remembered at my wedding. So, I understand what you are talking about with whatever this is with your mother. And as far as God being there, I don’t care where you get married, vows are vows and God is present in all places or at least he is with me, even when I am on the toilet!!! That is right ON THE TOILET! God Bless You All!

 

[rolltidefan]

Oh another thing. I happen to have many non-denominational friends and family. They are all baptized and they believe in it. They use the word non-denominational because they get frustrated with RELIGION and they don’t put a name above the door.

 

[rolltidefan]

Also wanted to add…hope I didn’t offend…it is just I have read this junk all day today and I think I am sick of hearing it. I think I will break for a while from it as my blood pressure is going up and I am getting frustrated. Sorry if I offended anyone, as I would never want to offend anybody or their religious beliefs which is why I refrain from making some of the comments that are made by both the Catholics and prostestants here. Just downright mean at times.

 

[agapewolf]

2 things to clear up:

1st, a Catholic marriage MAY NOT have a 2nd religious ceremony (such as an outdoor wedding with a non-denominational pastor before or after. (Convalidation cannot be abused in this way)). This is not allowed.

2nd, SOME non-denominational sects are not baptized with the trinitarian formula, Some are.

 

[Thomas63116]

Oh another thing. I happen to have many non-denominational friends and family. They are all baptized and they believe in it. They use the word non-denominational because they get frustrated with RELIGION and they don’t put a name above the door.

Just to clarify. . .the Catholic church considers it necessary for validity that a baptism be performed using a Trinitarian formula (i.e. “in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit”). Most non-Catholic denominations do this, but some do not. When someone belongs to a specific denomination, it is fairly easy to know whether that church uses a Trinitarian formula for Baptism. When someone identifies as non-denominational, it can be harder to know what the practice is in their specific church.

The point of all this as it relates to the OP’s situation is that different dispensations would be required and different ceremonies might be used, depending on whether she was baptized using a Trinitarian formula. I don’t think any insult was intended, but it might make a difference in how they would proceed in this situation.

 

[Thomas63116]

OP, all the people I’ve known who’ve asked for a dispensation to get married in the non-Catholic spouse’s church have been granted it.

As long as your fiancé receives permission to marry in your Church, your pastor can marry you wherever he wants

This may be the most practical and relevant information anyone has provided the OP on this thread. Is the dispenation, when granted, really that broad?

 

[basilisk]

2 things to clear up:

1st, a Catholic marriage MAY NOT have a 2nd religious ceremony (such as an outdoor wedding with a non-denominational pastor before or after. (Convalidation cannot be abused in this way)). This is not allowed.

Yeah, I kinda thought so… here are some relevant Ask An Apologist answers:

69.43.207.164/showthread.php?t=64123&highlight=two+wedding

69.43.207.164/showthread.php?t=262629&highlight=two+wedding

69.43.207.164/showthread.php?t=243180&highlight=two+wedding

69.43.207.164/showthread.php?t=220250&highlight=two+wedding