Seeking forgiveness of sin from God

[Raxus]

That is true. Confessing but not for absolution but help. Perhaps that is because it is understood that God , Jesus, forgives.

Yes. It’s also understood that God works through humanity more often than not. And it’s VERY well understood that Jesus gave the Apostles the ability to forgive sins.

I don’t understand why you seem to be dancing around that very plain fact so much.

Do you not agree that Jesus gave the Apostles the ability to forgive sin in His name?

If you do agree, why do you think He did that?

If you don’t agree, what do you think Jesus was actually doing there?

 

[mcq72]

Do you not agree that Jesus gave the Apostles the ability to forgive sin in His name?

Absolutely, just as sure as He also commissioned to preach the gospel, of the new covenant, making disciples of all nations.( these things all related).

If you do agree, why do you think He did that?

Because sin is the number one problem of mankind, what seperates us from God, and therefore what needs a fixin. We were dead in sin and trespasses.

Forgiveness is the power to reconcile, and what draws us to the good news.

The Holy Spirit convicts of sin, judgement and righteousness ( thru the blood of Christ remitting our sins).

This was in full display on Pentecost . Peter preached the sin of the Jews, their impending judgement and how to obtain righteousness/ forgiveness, by repenting and being baptized, sins being forgiven. That is the good news gladly receieved by the Jews who cried out under heavy conviction of sin, “What shall we do ?”

I think we ( the church) sometimes acts like Peter at the transfiguration who was tempted to ritualize, to capture the moment. We may have done the same with this power of forgiveness by ritualizing it, even into a sacrament.

 

[TULIPed]

That’s not the same as just KNOWING from some nebulous inside place that you’re forgiven.

And yet…Protestants experience it. Many of their lives are changed thanks to feeling God’s forgiveness. Marriages repaired, addictions conquered, friendships rekindled. There’s no question that confession to a person can be powerful and - even required. But it’s also possible to receive forgiveness from our Father. Which is why I think perhaps Jesus taught us to pray…

“Our Father…forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.”

 

[Julius_Caesar]

That’s not the same as just KNOWING from some nebulous inside place that you’re forgiven.

Heartstrings aren’t reliable most of the time.

 

[mcq72]

Heartstrings aren’t reliable most of the time

“The heart is perverse above all things, and unsearchable, who can know it?” Jer 17:9

“A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you…” Ez 36:26

“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”
2nd Cor5:17

“And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?” LUKE 22:32

It all depends what the strings are made of and who is playing the strings that makes all the difference.

Ye must be born again, born of the spirit.

Emotions are good, as long as they are based on facts, acquiesced by fear of God and faith by the new man.

 

[Wannano]

Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. Psalm 51:10.

 

[mcq72]

Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. Psalm 51:10.

I am weary with my groaning; all the night make I my bed to swim; I water my couch with my tears. Psalm 6:6

As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. Psalm 42:1

And David danced before the LORD with all his might. So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet. 2 Sam 614

David had a heart after God, and knew His voice, a man of faith in action and emotion.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

You left out one verse.

I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then every man will receive his commendation from God.
1 Corinthians 4:4‭-‬5 RSV-CI

So even for a Christian, heart strings are unreliable.

 

[mcq72]

am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes. 1 Corinthians 4:4‭-‬5

So even for a Christian, heart strings are unreliable.

“For the Spirit himself giveth testimony to our spirit, that we are the sons of God.” Rom 8:16

As to Corinthian quote, i believe it is a total misapplication. He is speaking of his apostleship, and how poorly some of the Corinthians and false apostles were judging Paul’s minustry. It is God who gives rewards at the judgement seat of Christ( not talking about salvation but rewards). Even Jesus did not say who would be seated at His right hand, and Corinthians think they can judge so rashly God’s minister? That is the context.

Here is a Calvin comnentary of which I am struck by the phrase " continual disquietude" as appropriate response to your post:

(Catholics) abuse this passage for the purpose of shaking the assurance of faith, and truly, I confess, that if their doctrine were admitted, we could do nothing but tremble in wretchedness during our whole life. For what tranquillity could our minds enjoy if it were to be determined from our works whether we are well-pleasing to God? I confess, therefore, that from the main foundation of Papists there follows nothing but continual disquietude for consciences; and, accordingly, we teach that we must have recourse to the free promise of mercy, which is offered to us in Christ, that we may be fully assured that we are accounted righteous by God.

https://biblehub.com/commentaries/calvin/1_corinthians/4.htm

 

[Julius_Caesar]

It is God who gives rewards at the judgement seat of Christ( not talking about salvation but rewards

How can one speak of judgement without salvation?

That is a misapplication, and eigesis at that.

Paul is putting himself under God’s scrutiny as to whether he’s talking about his standing not only as an Apostle but even his salvation. Hence, why he says, I am not acquitted.

 

[Raxus]

That is the good news gladly receieved by the Jews who cried out under heavy conviction of sin, “What shall we do ?”

What about sins committed after Baptism?

 

[Julius_Caesar]

I confess, therefore, that from the main foundation of Papists there follows nothing but continual disquietude for consciences;

We also get that from Paul.

Do you not know that in a race all the runners compete, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. Well, I do not run aimlessly, I do not box as one beating the air; but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.
1 Corinthians 9:24‭-‬27 RSV-CI

Now these things are warnings for us, not to desire evil as they did. Now these things happened to them as a warning, but they were written down for our instruction, upon whom the end of the ages has come. Therefore let any one who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.
1 Corinthians 10:6‭, ‬11‭-‬12 RSV-CI

1 Corinthians 10:6-12 Now these things are warnings for us, not to desire evil as they did. Do not be idolaters as some of them were; as it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink and rose up to dance.” We must n | Revised Standard Version

 

[Raxus]

“The heart is perverse above all things, and unsearchable, who can know it?” Jer 17:9

“A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you…” Ez 36:26

“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”
2nd Cor5:17

“And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?” LUKE 22:32

It all depends what the strings are made of and who is playing the strings that makes all the difference.

Ye must be born again, born of the spirit.

Emotions are good, as long as they are based on facts, acquiesced by fear of God and faith by the new man.

Emotions are certainly good, but they are mercurial and not a good basis for knowing one is forgiven.

 

[mcq72]

How can one speak of judgement without salvation?

Well, you must discern between the great white throne judgement and the judgement seat of Christ. Do you think we get our rewards upon entering heaven after we die ( besides eternal life) or does that happen later, at the end of the age?

 

[mcq72]

What about sins committed after Baptism?

I suppose if you think baptism saves you, remits your sins, then thereafter you would desire other sacraments to continue to do so thereafter. I believe we are not saved, made righteous, cleansed by works of righteousness.

We have discussed the explicit scriptural renderings of sin forgiveness thereafter, which is confession to God for absolution, and confession to man for help.

 

[Raxus]

We have discussed the explicit scriptural renderings of sin forgiveness thereafter, which is confession to God for absolution, and confession to man for help.

It still ignores the fact that Jesus gave the apostles the ability to forgive sins in His name.

 

[mcq72]

We also get that from Paul.

Do you not know that in a race all the runners compete, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. Well, I do not run aimlessly, I do not box as one beating the air; but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.
1 Corinthians 9:24‭-‬27 RSV-CI

Now these things are warnings for us, not to desire evil as they did. Now these things happened to them as a warning, but they were written down for our instruction, upon whom the end of the ages has come. Therefore let any one who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.
1 Corinthians 10:6‭, ‬11‭-‬12 RSV-CI
https://bible.com/bible/2017/1co.10.6-12.RSV-CI

Again, a seperation is required for judgements. One can be judged in ministry and be rewarded as such, apart from eternal judgement .

For example, can a priest/ pastor be disqualified from ministry, suffer loss, but still remain “saved”, not lose his salvation. To Biden this, " Come on man",

 

[mcq72]

It still ignores the fact that Jesus gave the apostles the ability to forgive sins in His name.

No, I have answered this so not sure you think we ignore that forgivenees, remit/ lose were granted the apostles. I gave explicit example of them doing so at Pentecost. Praying for the sick also may encompass this. We also have declaratory application of His propitiatory blood thereafter. We do not see the sacrament of penance, of the exclusiveness of absolution of confessing to a priest, in scripture however.

 

[mcq72]

Emotions are certainly good, but they are mercurial and not a good basis for knowing one is forgiven.

Absolutely agree. But we should not also make His promises and faith procured facts and experiences in Him mercurial also.

 

[Raxus]

No, I have answered this so not sure you think we ignore that forgivenees, remit/ lose were granted the apostles. I gave explicit example of them doing so at Pentecost. Praying for the sick also may encompass this. We also have declaratory application of His propitiatory blood thereafter. We do not see the sacrament of penance, of the exclusiveness of absolution of confessing to a priest, in scripture however.

Yes we do. Is Confession in Scripture? | Catholic Answers