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estesbob
Guest
Repent, confess, receive the sacraments as often as possible. Pray frequently and trust in the Lord.
I find great strength(and comfort) in confronting my sinful inclinations by reading the lives of the Saints.
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I find great strength(and comfort) in confronting my sinful inclinations by reading the lives of the Saints.
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estesbob
Guest
Not rare at all.In fact my parish had a prayer group every dayv of the week for all sinners It’s called the Mass.We don’t have specific groups for those who engage in Homosexual behavior but then we dont have groups for adulterers, those addicted to pornography, those living together without being married,etc. either.
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Joie_de_Vivre
Guest
H was quite aware of the spiritual consequences, it got so bad that he just didn’t care anymore.
That’s actually very unusual.
I’m not even gay and bullying over perceived sexual orientation still managed to mess me up pretty bad.
Indeed.
Brown people are still treated with tons of suspicion these days. I still see people making extra sure they locked their cars when they see black people walk by, even if they are in said car, when said black person is wearing a button down shirt and slacks that is just plain racism. I still saw plenty of abuse directed at gay people in urban California. There have still been cases of transgendered people being killed or have people gravely injure them.
I’m talking about the point some reach where they are just simply too burned out to continue.
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estesbob
Guest
God is still there for them.I myself have been to this point as well as Saints to numerous to mention.
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Prodigal_Son
Guest
If we don’t have a group where people can confess their sins and temptations to one another – whatever they are – then we are not carrying out the teachings of Jesus, as relayed to us through the book of Acts. This is where, sadly, American Protestant churches are much more faithful to the historical reality of the Church than American Catholic churches.
It’s not a problem with the Church as such, though, but a problem with churches and dioceses.
By the way, I love this sort of response. I complain that we don’t have sufficient help for gay people, and you respond that we don’t have sufficient help for adulterers, pornophiles, fornicators, and so on. I agree. And these sins are major scourges on the Catholic Church right now. SO WHY DON’T WE GIVE THESE PEOPLE HELP – ALL OF THEM?
(It doesn’t have to be dedicated groups – in fact, I somewhat dislike dedicated groups. But we need to make clear that we want to share in one another’s struggles, in some straightforward way).
Sorry to shout. I feel somewhat strongly about this. And if Jesus meant for the Confession and the Eucharist to be the sole means of support for people, He would never have let Acts and the Epistles be written the way they were.
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Prodigal_Son
Guest
Yes, the Church’s teachings could naturally inspire fear, sure. But the role of an evangelist is just like the role of a nurse – bring the patient to the surgeon, as gently as possible. And we are all evangelists, 100% of the time. The surgeon has some hard truths for Naomily. But I don’t see what role individual Catholics (and strangers!) have in rubbing in these truths, especially since Naomily doesn’t seem confused about what the Church actually teaches.
We are not surgeons.
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estesbob
Guest
You misunderstood what I said.I didn’t say we don’t have sufcicient help for other groups of sinners.I said wee have sufficient help for ALL sinners. Repent ,confess, go to Mass as often as possible and pray . I think just as bad as believing homosexuality is somehow worse than other sexual sins is the idea it needs solutions different than those for other sins.If we don’t have a group where people can confess their sins and temptations to one another – whatever they are – then we are not carrying out the teachings of Jesus, as relayed to us through the book of Acts. This is where, sadly, American Protestant churches are much more faithful to the historical reality of the Church than American Catholic churches.
It’s not a problem with the Church as such, though, but a problem with churches and dioceses.
By the way, I love this sort of response. I complain that we don’t have sufficient help for gay people, and you respond that we don’t have sufficient help for adulterers, pornophiles, fornicators, and so on. I agree. And these sins are major scourges on the Catholic Church right now. SO WHY DON’T WE GIVE THESE PEOPLE HELP – ALL OF THEM?
(It doesn’t have to be dedicated groups – in fact, I somewhat dislike dedicated groups. But we need to make clear that we want to share in one another’s struggles, in some straightforward way).
Sorry to shout. I feel somewhat strongly about this. And if Jesus meant for the Confession and the Eucharist to be the sole means of support for people, He would never have let Acts and the Epistles be written the way they were.
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Prodigal_Son
Guest
You misunderstand what I said.
I don’t think homosexuality is a worse temptation than others. I think ALL temptations need more support than just repentance, confession, Mass, and prayer.
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Richard_White
Guest
My now former pastor always says that the Church is not a hotel for saints, but a hospital for sinners. Miss OP, this is what you have to remember. Be sure to remain in the bosom of the Church and, although some people refuse to show homosexuals charity, you should know that most of us do follow the “love the sinner, hate the sin” mentality.
Also remember that this is the cross that you were made to bear. Yes, we may fall, but like Jesus and with His help, we can rise up again and again and we better in the end. Something I have realized recently is that the gift of perserverance is one of the most important virtues, keep praying for it. Also, maybe find a spiritual director who can help you with your predicament.
May God bless you all!
Also remember that this is the cross that you were made to bear. Yes, we may fall, but like Jesus and with His help, we can rise up again and again and we better in the end. Something I have realized recently is that the gift of perserverance is one of the most important virtues, keep praying for it. Also, maybe find a spiritual director who can help you with your predicament.
May God bless you all!
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estesbob
Guest
I don’t discount the value of support graphs.AS wss crucial in my sobering up.But the fact that a particular parish does not offer such support groups is not an indication they don’t care.And I beg to differ that we need more help than just the sacraments.That is all that is needed. ThecKey is getting people to realize this.How can you possibly have more help than holding the creator of the universe in your hand and following his admonition to consume him.?You misunderstand what I said.
I don’t think homosexuality is a worse temptation than others. I think ALL temptations need more support than just repentance, confession, Mass, and prayer.
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PeopleB4Things
Guest
You are very brave to come to this forum for advice. Since it is mostly populated by conservative Catholics, I advise you to seek counsel from a trusted local church leader, a deacon, a nun, a lay minister, a priest in your parish. I would also strongly, very strongly advise you to seek counsel from a reputable therapist. You have a lot of concerns you need to work through.
You also need to realize that there more Catholics out there in the US that support your life style than are against it. Remember, you, me, our fellow parishioners, our church leaders… we are all single bricks in the foundation of the church. No one person is the Church, not me, not you, no one here in this forum, not even the pope himself. The bricks of our church are made up of a very diverse group of people with varying traditions & practices. Catholics all over the world are masters at intertwining local traditions with their faith. Vestiges of our missionary work, our Church is a cornucopia of diversity, contrary to what many US Catholics think. You’re just one more variation. Remember, who you are, your feelings, your personality, your entire being is loved by God. And anyone who tries to defame God by defaming you is not your concern. We are all sinners one way or another & God loves us just the same.
Lastly, I have never met a single Catholic who follows the church 100%. Most Catholic men & women have used birth control at least 1x in their lives. We all know Catholics who believe in capital punishment even though the Church has said with our current prison system, we should not execute. We all know Catholics who regularly speak out against politicians in ways that are mean spirited & anger filled. We all know Catholics who think the USCCB doesn’t speak for them, especially when the bishops called for greater govt spending on the poor & greater gun control laws. We all know Catholic who’d rather pay extra $ for the heated seat options in their cars than spend that $ to help the poor. I like to spend $ on books when I could easily get them from the library. I could use that $ to help fund a ministry instead. What would Jesus do? Spend $ on unnecessary things, big houses, nice cars, jewelry, the sports cable package, vacations, books, etc. or would he feed the poor? We are all cafeteria Catholics. Live the best life you can, be kind, do not judge, defend the victims, care for others, & love God with all your heart & soul. Stay true to the creed, follow the commandments, live the beatitudes. Be true to you… because you, your life, is a gift from God. Be strong. Do not allow anyone to soil that gift for you. You are the sacred keeper of that gift & your connection with God is yours alone. Who are we to judge? We are not God. Our judgments of you & your lifestyle are our sins and are of no concern of yours. Be well, good luck & God bless.
You also need to realize that there more Catholics out there in the US that support your life style than are against it. Remember, you, me, our fellow parishioners, our church leaders… we are all single bricks in the foundation of the church. No one person is the Church, not me, not you, no one here in this forum, not even the pope himself. The bricks of our church are made up of a very diverse group of people with varying traditions & practices. Catholics all over the world are masters at intertwining local traditions with their faith. Vestiges of our missionary work, our Church is a cornucopia of diversity, contrary to what many US Catholics think. You’re just one more variation. Remember, who you are, your feelings, your personality, your entire being is loved by God. And anyone who tries to defame God by defaming you is not your concern. We are all sinners one way or another & God loves us just the same.
Lastly, I have never met a single Catholic who follows the church 100%. Most Catholic men & women have used birth control at least 1x in their lives. We all know Catholics who believe in capital punishment even though the Church has said with our current prison system, we should not execute. We all know Catholics who regularly speak out against politicians in ways that are mean spirited & anger filled. We all know Catholics who think the USCCB doesn’t speak for them, especially when the bishops called for greater govt spending on the poor & greater gun control laws. We all know Catholic who’d rather pay extra $ for the heated seat options in their cars than spend that $ to help the poor. I like to spend $ on books when I could easily get them from the library. I could use that $ to help fund a ministry instead. What would Jesus do? Spend $ on unnecessary things, big houses, nice cars, jewelry, the sports cable package, vacations, books, etc. or would he feed the poor? We are all cafeteria Catholics. Live the best life you can, be kind, do not judge, defend the victims, care for others, & love God with all your heart & soul. Stay true to the creed, follow the commandments, live the beatitudes. Be true to you… because you, your life, is a gift from God. Be strong. Do not allow anyone to soil that gift for you. You are the sacred keeper of that gift & your connection with God is yours alone. Who are we to judge? We are not God. Our judgments of you & your lifestyle are our sins and are of no concern of yours. Be well, good luck & God bless.
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Abu
Guest
What a cop out! Typical of the cafeteria Catholic. The pick and choose, self–described “Catholic” needs to listen to Christ Himself:
“if he refuses to hear even the Church let him be like the heathen and a publican.” (Mt 18:17).
CCC 2359: Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
As part of his homily on June 10, 2013, Pope Francis said this:
“This is salvation: to live in the consolation of the Holy Spirit, not the consolation of the spirit of this world. No, that is not salvation, that is sin. Salvation is moving forward and opening our hearts so they can receive the Holy Spirit’s consolation, which is salvation. This is non-negotiable, you can’t take a bit from here and a bit from there? We cannot pick and mix, no? A bit of the Holy Spirit, a bit of the spirit of this world … No! It’s one thing or the other.”
Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI said, “Being an adult means having a faith which does not follow the waves of today’s fashions or the latest novelties. A faith which is deeply rooted in friendship with Christ is adult and mature.”
Unfortunately this is used often without an iota of understanding that it is a major misrepresentation of the teaching of Christ as to the need to judge everything. Hence the virtual acceptance of error and the promulgation of error in faith and morals.
We may not judge motives, intentions, and guilt before God but we are commanded by Christ Himself to judge actions, speech, writing against truth and in this way we can help others by offering truth.
The rule from Christ is:
“Judge not that you be not judged.” (Mt 7:1)
“Stop judging by appearances, but judge justly.” (Jn 7:24).
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will know them” (Mt 7:15, 16).
“Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them.” (Mt 7:19-20).
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Tigg
Guest
NO, we are not and I fail to see what right you have in blanket condemnation. We are all *sinners *and most acknowledge that while trying to follow Christ. BIG difference.
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estesbob
Guest
fifth
So what is the difference between a conservative catholic and other Catholics? Have been that many have posted in detail church teaching on this what do you expect the original poster to gain from going to a local church leader, deacon Nun, etc?
I fail to see why the fact that all members of the church are centers somehow gives one a free pass to engage in homosexual behavior. And you could not be more wrong when you say we’re all church leaders. Our church leadership is based on apostolic secession and is held by the pope and other members of the magisterium.
You are correct that God loves us regardless. If there is nothing we can do to make God love us anymore and there is nothing we can do to make God love us any less. However we are given the three wheel to reject God and with that rejection there are consequences.
Again is a supposed to be some kind of great revelation at all Catholics are sinners?
And no one is soiling either God’s love or god’s gift to those who engage in homosexual behavior. They are soiling it themselves. That’s what sin does. But the good news is that forgiveness is just a confession away.
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sw85
Guest
You get that you are the Catholic Church, too, right?If we don’t have a group where people can confess their sins and temptations to one another – whatever they are – then we are not carrying out the teachings of Jesus, as relayed to us through the book of Acts. This is where, sadly, American Protestant churches are much more faithful to the historical reality of the Church than American Catholic churches.
It’s not a problem with the Church as such, though, but a problem with churches and dioceses.
By the way, I love this sort of response. I complain that we don’t have sufficient help for gay people, and you respond that we don’t have sufficient help for adulterers, pornophiles, fornicators, and so on. I agree. And these sins are major scourges on the Catholic Church right now. SO WHY DON’T WE GIVE THESE PEOPLE HELP – ALL OF THEM?
“Why doesn’t someone do something?!” Why don’t you?
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Prodigal_Son
Guest
I am. Both individually, by working with young people with SSA, and through my blog, and through shouting about this issue as loudly as I can to people in the Church. This forum is one place where I shout, but it’s not the only one.
Sheesh!
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Starrsmother
Guest
“Courage” is a wonderful group that consists of gay Catholics supporting each other. “Encourage” its sister group is a support group for parents and relatives of gays. Many Parishes have active chapters—if your parish doesn’t, why not look it up on your search engine and start one? Wouldn’t that be a more helpful approach than simply cursing the dawn?
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Prodigal_Son
Guest
Hi there,
Look, I **am **going to the Courage conference this year, so again, you guys are presuming things about my inactivity. And I am not here to “curse the dawn”. I’m here to express clearly and unambiguously that same-sex attracted Catholics (and other Catholics) need help getting freed from shame – especially if nobody else knows about their shame!
If you really want to know, I feel a calling to become an evangelist to the gay community, and especially to teenagers with same-sex attraction. That isn’t something Courage is doing, not really. And I would, honestly, be speaking very publicly and very loudly (though also respectfully) in Church circles – but I can’t, right now, because I have a dilemma. You see, I’m married and I have kids. So it’s not an easy choice to go into this sort of ministry, where the most effective thing would be to publicly admit my own same-sex attractions.
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kozlosap
Guest
I pray you find a way to follow your dream of counseling young LGBTQ teens. Having taught high school for 35 years I can attest to the sad fact that these kids need all the support we can show them in a positive and non-shaming manner. (I do not consider reparative therapy to be anything other than the worst sort of quackery…)
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sw85
Guest
Well then it sounds like something is being done about it, no?
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