Several priests shut church door to petitions to block gay marriage

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I have no clue why the priests did as they did and in reality it is hard for me to care. (When the house is burning it is hard to care about whether all the doors and windows are locked to keep out burglars.)

On the other hand, being able to understand the opposite side, is critical. So I will offer up some reasons why I have a tendency to support the decision of the pastors.
  1. Reverence. Catholics more than any other Christian group respect the sacred space of the church. We don’t do power points presentations or pony rides and we keep the ‘sausage making’ side of politics out of our churches. I don’t care how much I agree with a petition, I don’t want it in the church; outside perhaps or in the church hall.
  2. As issues go this is a third stringer at best. The number one political issue in our church is abortion followed closely by drugs and divorce. War mongering and lack of concern for the poor run close behind. And when it comes to ‘family values’ the number one problem hands down are Pre- and extra-marital sex. And against both, the Church has failed miserably to mount a vocal and effective response. They can’t even effectively move Church goers. Going after gay marriage seems very much like the Bishops smugly closing the barn door after 99% of the horses have escaped. If they succeed I will be glad, but what about the other 99%. How many of them are being kept from returning by closing the door?
  3. This issue and the petitions are a distraction. (Ok maybe this goes against the priests since it is just as much of a distraction to fight against as to fight for but I never promised to be entirely self-consistent.) The number one problem face by the Church is not ‘liberals’ but apathy and ignorance. Catechists have absolutely no training; the main books used for that purpose are uninformative and seem not to relate to everyday life. The Bishops are too busy fighting an extreme minority of heretics to notice that the vast majority of people who leave the Church have absolutely no contact with any of these heretics and no sympathy for the heretics either. To those who leave, the heretics and the orthodox are equally out of touch.
  4. Political issues are always complex and there are always good reasons for rational people to disagree. There is no room for disagreement in the Church about whether or not same sex marriage is a valid. That does not mean there are not political reasons to not support this petition. One example is people who believe that the state should get out of the marriage business, altogether. Marriage is sacred enough that it shouldn’t be performed willy nilly in front of random judges and ship captains on a whim.
  5. Now more than ever we need dialog between the orthodox Catholics and liberals. (Not that the two are inconsistent with each other; the Church is neither liberal nor conservative but orthodox.) Liberals, like any other political group of Catholics are humans trying to make the right decisions. They like any other group need and want guidance. Smacking them down with snide and uncivil remarks does not help; neither does the demand for unthinking obedience. Neither does focusing on a third string in importance political issue that just so happens to support the Republican machine. There are plenty of ‘liberal’ issues that the Church can speak in support of that are more important; yet they are conspicuously silent. I don’t suspect the Catholic Church of being too political and in bed so to speak with Republicans; but the appearance of impropriety can be just as deadly politically as impropriety itself.
 
Julia_Mae said:
Elizabeth, believe it or not, people who support civil union are most definitely considering the welfare of the sate, that state being the citizenry as a whole.

Law, as written, is not about morality. Law addresses acts by persons, individual or corporate, that affect the welfare of the members or the body. Now, while it’s true that stealing is wrong, in terms of a moral code, it is also an objectively undesirable behavior.

In a free society, one religion may not impose it’s moral code on the society, or on certain individuals, through law.
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The Church does not seek to impose religion on anyone. Laws banning faux marriages are common sense. The law is a teacher.
 
Julia_Mae said:
Elizabeth, believe it or not, people who support civil union are most definitely considering the welfare of the sate, that state being the citizenry as a whole.

Law, as written, is not about morality. Law addresses acts by persons, individual or corporate, that affect the welfare of the members or the body. Now, while it’s true that stealing is wrong, in terms of a moral code, it is also an objectively undesirable behavior.

In a free society, one religion may not impose it’s moral code on the society, or on certain individuals, through law.
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We already have laws to protect the rights of same-sex partners, but redefining marriage is not good for society. It implies that there is nothing at all special about the marriage between a man and a wowan in a faithful, life-giving relationship. And that that this ideal that has been accepted by society for centuries is not important for the welfare of the state.
 
Homosexual marriage has huge implications for civilisation itself. Marriage between one woman and one man is the foundation stone of civilisation. It has always been protected for the procreation of children, who will, ideally, in turn, become good citizens.

Homosexual marriage is a non-productive unit; totally selfish and immoral in its very essence. The whole notion goes against Natural Law, let alone the teachings of our Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, which itself is responsible for our civilisation! Children handed over to these people stand no chance of having a normal, healthy outlook on either themselves or future partners. How could they? What have they learned from such a false coupling? Who is their parent? Which daddy is theirs? Which mommy? It is the height of child cruelty. Every child deserves to know their parents and to be loved by their own mum and dad. What about extended family? To allow a child to be brought up by homosexuals playing at ‘happy families’ is to turn a child into an accessory to justify the disordered relationship of the homosexuals. There is no continuity. As soon as this homosexual coupling fails - and most do - what happens to the child? It just does not bear thinking about.

The attack on our Church’s teachings is an attack on society as we know it.

There are terrible consequences to this; use some foresight. Take for example abortion. If marriage and the procreation of children is devalued, then abortion will become commonplace -even worse than it is at the moment.

At the heart of this issue is a threat that could see civilisation catastrophically collapse.

How can these priests desert their parishioners in such a terrible time as this? Cowards!!!
 
gus said:
You have more faith in the courts than I do.
We will see who is right within 3-5 years.
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Has the state ever required the Catholic Church to perform a second marriage for a divorced man or woman?
 
Lujack said:
Has the state ever required the Catholic Church to perform a second marriage for a divorced man or woman?
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This does not mean it can not happen. A year ago the idea that the state would require the Catholic Church cover contraception would have been (pardon the pun) inconceivable. For that matter, who would have thought that the state would require Catholic adoption agencies to adopt children out to homosexual couples? How is that for sick and twisted! There is not limit to many people to what the state can force on the Church in the name of homosexual rights.
 
Lujack said:
Has the state ever required the Catholic Church to perform a second marriage for a divorced man or woman?
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If the divorced society ever organizized and became a powerfull lobby. It certainly could happen.
 
Lujack said:
I would like to imagine that the hierarchy of the Catholic Church deals with things in a more restrained and rational manner.
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The time for restraint is over. Restraint is what has allowed these rouge priests to feel like that they can do whatever they want. It is causing some American Catholic Churches to be barely recognizable as Catholic.
 
BenedictFTW said:
How can these priests desert their parishioners in such a terrible time as this? Cowards!!!
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It would appear that Raymond Hunthausen is alive and well in Seattle. Does anyone doubt that anti-nuke protestors would be given space to gather signatures (all the way to the pulpit) while those defending marriage and catholic morality have the door closed and locked to them?
 
I really don’t understand how any Church that claims to be Catholic could reject such petitions. The Catholic Church is against “gay marriage” and therefore the Church has every right to distribute petitions such as these. It would seem as though the priests or pastors of these churches that are refusing to distribute these petitions may be dissenting from Church teaching on the issue of “gay marriage”. I do not know if that is the case or not but it seems that way. I sincerely hope that is not the case. If that is the case then I hope that they return to orthodoxy as soon as possible.
 
I hope the church does loose it’s tax except status. not cause I want to see the Church suffer but cause if they don’t wish to comply with the government then it’s only right and proper.
 
Aussie_ukie said:
I hope the church does loose it’s tax except status. not cause I want to see the Church suffer but cause if they don’t wish to comply with the government then it’s only right and proper.
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Why should the Church comply with an evil law?
 
Aussie_ukie said:
I hope the church does loose it’s tax except status. not cause I want to see the Church suffer but cause if they don’t wish to comply with the government then it’s only right and proper.
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The Church is tax-exempt because it has no revenues to tax, being a non-profit organization.

This sentiment is sickening by the way – that you would rather the Church be punished for refusing to comply with the functionally-Satanic state rather than wish the state repent of its errors and align its public policies with those of the Church. I cannot imagine what would drive you to have so little love for the Church which remits your sin, confects the host, and will bring you to Heaven if only you’d let it.
 
fix said:
Why should the Church comply with an evil law?
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who says it’s evil?
not everyone is a catholic you know. there are many faith groups who would not call it evil, and they have a right to their morality as much as you do.
 
fix said:
Why should the Church comply with an evil law?
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besides at tax exception status is a gift from the government not a right…and if the government doesn’t believe that it should go to the Catholic church isn’t that the governments right?
 
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