Sex crimes and the Vatican

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The real question we should be focusing on is how to fix the problem. What measures need to be in place to ensure that these people stay out of the seminaries? How should we better identify problematic priests in the future (hopefully before anything happens)? How can we better improve communications and legal structures to make sure the Bishops and the Holy See react faster? These are the questions we should be asking.
33% of all homosexual men are attracted to adolescent boys. The problem with the priesthood is it is full of homosexual men. Read the book ‘Goodbye Good Men’. It is an eye opener. The priesthood has for decades allowed even condoned homosexual behavior by the homosexual sub-culture that ha sinfiltrated the Church. IMO the situation is beyond repair in America. America is now considered missionary territory by Indian and African priests.

I think allowing married clergy will allow heterosexual men to flock to the priesthood and drive out the homosexual sub culture that exists in the priesthood. I think it’s the only way to drive out the homosexual influence that has destroyed the Church in the past 40 years.

Either way though this is just conjecture, I think Christ set up a Church but I don’t believe it to be a physical man made institution any longer.

I’ll keep reading the Bible and praying and see where it leads me, but I can’t condone a Church that instructs its clergy to act according to that document any longer. I certainly can’t in good conscience contribute money to them.
 
What measures need to be in place to ensure that these people stay out of the seminaries?
This is an interesing point that I have wondered about and have no answer. For a man with a desire for young boys, what would forbid such a predator from deliberately trying to enter into the fold of sheep as a wolf? Would we recognize such a person even it we tried? Has this been the case with some of the worst offenders?
 
33% of all homosexual men are attracted to adolescent boys. The problem with the priesthood is it is full of homosexual men. Read the book ‘Goodbye Good Men’. It is an eye opener. The priesthood has for decades allowed even condoned homosexual behavior by the homosexual sub-culture that ha sinfiltrated the Church. IMO the situation is beyond repair in America. America is now considered missionary territory by Indian and African priests.

I think allowing married clergy will allow heterosexual men to flock to the priesthood and drive out the homosexual sub culture that exists in the priesthood. I think it’s the only way to drive out the homosexual influence that has destroyed the Church in the past 40 years.

Either way though this is just conjecture, I think Christ set up a Church but I don’t believe it to be a physical man made institution any longer.

I’ll keep reading the Bible and praying and see where it leads me, but I can’t condone a Church that instructs its clergy to act according to that document any longer. I certainly can’t in good conscience contribute money to them.
Married clergy (I assume you do not mean Deacons, as they are already allowed to be married)? Are you out of your mind?

Actualy, it was full of homosexual men 20+ years ago. Today, thanks to various efforts, the priesthood in North America is on the right track.

You may think that Christ lied to us when he said that the gates of hell will never prevail against His Church, but I assure you that this is not the case.

In fact, you would be hard pressed to find any church whose human leadership has not been plagued by some form of corruption or another- well, perhaps one of thos fundamentalist churches that get formed every hour, although their purity would last all of ten minutes. Better hurry then!
 
This is an interesing point that I have wondered about and have no answer. For a man with a desire for young boys, what would forbid such a predator from deliberately trying to enter into the fold of sheep as a wolf? Would we recognize such a person even it we tried? Has this been the case with some of the worst offenders?
Better psycological analysis prior to entering the seminary; better background checks; ect.
 
This is an interesing point that I have wondered about and have no answer. For a man with a desire for young boys, what would forbid such a predator from deliberately trying to enter into the fold of sheep as a wolf? Would we recognize such a person even it we tried? Has this been the case with some of the worst offenders?
I can’t say I’ve thought about tthe explicit ways too much, but I imagine there must be an awful lot of easier ways to do it than the immense effort required to become a priest.

Anyway, isn’t this part of what the psychological interview that is part of what a Bishop considers before allowing you to enter seminary, is for?

Mike
 
Ten years ago, Fr. Tom Doyle, 50, made a decision he says erased any hope he might have had for upward mobility on the ladder of church employment. But this decision, according to Barbara Blaine, president of the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, SNAP, has allowed him “more than any other priest in the United States” to bring hope and healing to hundreds of victims of clerical sex abuse.

A decade ago, Doyle, at the time a canon lawyer at the Vatican Embassy in Washington, became aware of the problems of sex abuse among Catholic clergy. He had been monitoring correspondence for what was perhaps the first highly publicized case of clerical abuse in the United States – a lawsuit in the Lafayette, La., diocese.

Joining ranks with attorney Ray Mouton, the lawyer defending the Lafayette priest, and the late psychiatrist and Catholic cleric Michael Peterson, who was acting as a referral person for the Lafayette diocese, Doyle helped produce an extensive report about the clergy sex abuse problem. That document may have been the begining of the end of Doyle’s standing in the official Catholic circles.

The idea for the report jelled after Mouton “found out the diocese was covering up for other pedophiles and began blowing the whistle,” Doyle said. Alarmed that the Lafayette scenario was occurring “a lot” elsewhere, Doyle said the three professionals were compelled to do something about it.

Their report on the issue was a “freewill offering” to the bishops, Doyle said. “I had talked to a number of bishops and asked how we could help. They suggested this particular format,” Doyle said. “At that time, a lot of the bishops were just baffled by this whole thing because, very quickly, a lot of cases were popping up.”

The inch-thick dossier provided a comprehensive analysis of sexual problems among Roman Catholic clerics, legal advice, suggestions for clinical evaluations and treatment and aftercare planning for priests. Most important, it outlined a “confidential crisis proposal” that included a national-level strategy to help the church as an institution respond to victims and their families when reports of abuse surfaced.

Doyle said that in the mid-1980s, he and his colleagues wanted to see a national-level committee within the bishops’ conference that would “hire the best lawyers, psychologists and pastoral care people to get a state-of-the-art analysis on the problem and … how to handle it.”

The authors’ primary goal, Doyle said, was “making sure the response to the victims and their families was total compassion.”

Doyle said the bishops initially favored the proposal, but “something happened” in the conference.

“All of a sudden, (the initiative) just flopped and fell through,” Doyle said. “I never found out exactly why. The steps we had taken to get them interested in a special ad hoc committee all of a sudden were shut down. They didn’t want to deal with it on that level.”

Doyle said no committee or entity of the bishops’ conference studied the issue seriously. One bishop, Doyle said, dismissed the crisis proposal as calling for a “SWAT” team. Doyle said another bishop referred to him as an “agent of Satan.”

The bishops’ response to the report over the years “was consistently very condemnatory of what we had done,” Doyle said. He said “the bishops’ conference did not use the power and information it had to take a leadership position on the issue. They took a defensive position. They tried to cover up and control.”

Early on in the clergy sex abuse scandal, bishops were reluctant to speak publicly of incidents for fear of scandal. Later, on the advice of lawyers, bishops failed to speak out or make approaches to victims for fear of costly legal battles and settlements. Some also said they were reluctant to publicly address increasing incidents because of concern for due process and the rights of accused priests.

Msgr. Francis J. Maniscalco, secretary of communications for the U.S. Catholic Conference, said the independent report was “parallel to education work the bishops were already doing for themselves” and that to point to the report as a “crucial step” in the response to pedophilia “is to overemphasize it.”

Maniscalco said that to “just write off church behavior as a cover-up is to ignore the context of the rest of society where these kinds of things are happening.”
 
He said that a decade ago when the independent report was released, given the sensitive nature of the issue, the bishops “considered it more fitting and to the point to discuss it in executive session” rather than in public forums. He said it might have been “better all along if the public had known what the bishops were doing – one could debate that.”

SNAP’s Blaine, however, says victims of clerical sex abuse have suffered most from the bishops’ reluctance to embrace the report and crisis plan. “I think that if the bishops had taken to heart the recommendations from that 1985 report, the healing processes that have finally started could have begun in the church 10 years ago. And the church wouldn’t have had to face all the public scandal that erupted,” Blaine said.

READ ON

MORE
 
Interesting story Michaelmac. Where did you find it?

I think this story shows an important point. Not that there was a global conspiracy to cover everything up, but that the Bishops- ill-equipped and untrained for such a situation- did the one thing they could think of: shut up about it and hoped the issue would go away on it’s own. Of course it didnt.

You have to remember that it is only recently that Bishops started getting press agents and lawyers to handle the media- before this issue came up, it really didnt matter.

The Bishops did not know how to handle the situation, so they ignored it. Rather than admit to any problems 20 years ago and take a little heat then, they put it off and put it off and are taking A LOT of heat for it now.

The Bishops of the Church made stupid decisions in regards to this issue, but they are not evil.
 
Ceasar,some Bishops did not care and they made no effort to find out the efects of abuse , you also had some bishops allowed people to become priests against the very best advice , if you cover up abuse no matter who you are you are evil yours michael
 
Ceasar,some Bishops did not care and they made no effort to find out the efects of abuse , you also had some bishops allowed people to become priests against the very best advice , if you cover up abuse no matter who you are you are evil yours michael
No, I couldnt agree with that. If you cover it up with good intentions, you are stupid and ignorant- but not evil.

The vast majority either kept themselves ignorant to the facts out of fear and hope that the issue would go away; or they took the traditional road and stayed tight-lipped to avoid a confrontation with the media or huge lawsuits (which at the time they wouldnt have been able to handle). In both cases stupid decisions were made, but the intentions were not evil.

It is unfortunate that the intentions of these Bishops werent for helping the victims; but then their efforts were not directed against further damaging them either. Very few, if any Bishops, covered up the abuse with the main intention of hurting the victims more.

Anywat, goodnight.
 
Ceasar, silence about abuse is soul distroying for victims ,there silence make matters worse for victims yours michael
 
Ceasar, silence about abuse is soul distroying for victims ,there silence make matters worse for victims yours michael
Well, like I said, the main intention was not to do that. The Bishops involved were trying to protect themselves. In so doing they made stupid decisions, and terrible mistakes. Mistakes can cause pain- a lot of pain- but that doesnt mean that the pain was caused on purpose.
 
Then there was a case in the US (I’ll look it up tomorrow) where, after discovering a case of abuse, the Bishop wanted to go speak to the victim’s family himself and help in whatever way he could. His lawyers said that was a bad idea and he should just keep his mouth shut and let the situation blow over on it’s own.

So we also have lawyers making stupid decisions for the Bishops.
 
This might sound stupid, but Saint Micahel, I really hope that you don’t go through with all of this. I have read a lot of your posts, both before and after the crash, and I think your faith is a lot deeper than you realize at this moment.
 
Well, like I said, the main intention was not to do that. The Bishops involved were trying to protect themselves. In so doing they made stupid decisions, and terrible mistakes. Mistakes can cause pain- a lot of pain- but that doesnt mean that the pain was caused on purpose.
Doyle said that in the mid-1980s, he and his colleagues wanted to see a national-level committee within the bishops’ conference that would “hire the best lawyers, psychologists and pastoral care people to get a state-of-the-art analysis on the problem and … how to handle it.”

The authors’ primary goal, Doyle said, was “making sure the response to the victims and their families was total compassion.”

Doyle said the bishops initially favored the proposal, but “something happened” in the conference.

“All of a sudden, (the initiative) just flopped and fell through,” Doyle said. “I never found out exactly why. The steps we had taken to get them interested in a special ad hoc committee all of a sudden were shut down. They didn’t want to deal with it on that level.”

Doyle said no committee or entity of the bishops’ conference studied the issue seriously. One bishop, Doyle said, dismissed the crisis proposal as calling for a “SWAT” team. Doyle said another bishop referred to him as an “agent of Satan.”

The bishops’ response to the report over the years “was consistently very condemnatory of what we had done,” Doyle said. He said “the bishops’ conference did not use the power and information it had to take a leadership position on the issue. They took a defensive position. They tried to cover up and control.”
 
Here in the UK COPCA - the Catholic Office for the Protection of Children and Vulnerable Adults - has no budget for developing pastoral care services; this is not even an aim within its “aims and objectives”. No Diocese has a budget for this work either.
 
The Bishops of the Church made stupid decisions in regards to this issue, but they are not evil.
I think ignorant is a better term (although a few were stupid, and maybe even evil). Much of society, including professional psychologists, were ignorant of the nature of sexual addictions, pedophilia, homosexuality and other perversions. About the only thing they had right was that is was abnormal behavior. Treatment was woeful misunderstood. Cure was sought way too much instead of penal incarceration. I refer to all of society, including the justice system, not just the Church.
 
33% of all homosexual men are attracted to adolescent boys. The problem with the priesthood is it is full of homosexual men. Read the book ‘Goodbye Good Men’. It is an eye opener. The priesthood has for decades allowed even condoned homosexual behavior by the homosexual sub-culture that ha sinfiltrated the Church. IMO the situation is beyond repair in America. America is now considered missionary territory by Indian and African priests.

I think allowing married clergy will allow heterosexual men to flock to the priesthood and drive out the homosexual sub culture that exists in the priesthood. I think it’s the only way to drive out the homosexual influence that has destroyed the Church in the past 40 years.

Either way though this is just conjecture, I think Christ set up a Church but I don’t believe it to be a physical man made institution any longer.

I’ll keep reading the Bible and praying and see where it leads me, but I can’t condone a Church that instructs its clergy to act according to that document any longer. I certainly can’t in good conscience contribute money to them.
That’s makes no sense to have married priesthood. It’s a possibility, but there are problems w/ it. A priests job is 24 hr around the clock job. I’m just surprised at people who think we can wave a magic want and everything automatically gets better. It’s not that simple. Are you suggesting that being celebate causes one to molest children, as if we are people who can’t control our sexual desires? What are you saying?
 
That’s makes no sense to have married priesthood. It’s a possibility, but there are problems w/ it. A priests job is 24 hr around the clock job. I’m just surprised at people who think we can wave a magic want and everything automatically gets better. It’s not that simple. Are you suggesting that being celebate causes one to molest children, as if we are people who can’t control our sexual desires? What are you saying?
Absolutely not, what I"m saying is there is a homosexual sub-culture that exists within the priesthood, this is apparent from the amount and nature of the sexual scandal, as well as witnessed by seminarians who left the calling due to it. I think having married men allowed to be priests will provide an influx of heterosexual men that will in the end dilute and drown out the homosexual sub-culture that has decimated the priesthood since the sexual revolution.

The sex scandal isn’t a pedophilia problem, I’ve read that of all cases 0.02% of them are actually pedophilia the rest are men molesting adolescent post pubescent boys. Homosexuality is already disordered, allowing people in the priesthood that already exhibit abnormal sexual disorders is an invitation to disaster. But as of now the priesthood is so riddled with homosexuality that it’s very tough to make headway in fighting it, since there are significant amounts of homosexuals with positions of power int he priesthood.

Unless the root cause is addressed which is rampant homosexuality in the priesthood, these cases will continue to plague the Catholic Church, they will always exist, but they will decrease if we can rid the priesthood of gay men. Gay men can be laity no problem, but they are dealing with a disordered sexual deviancy and should not be candidates for the priesthood. My heart goes out ot those with SGA, but it is deviant.
 
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