F
fix
Guest
His teaching was always there for all to follow. No directive, law, or anything else will change human nature.
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F
fix
Guest
What world wide cover-up?
Z
zorrox
Guest
The document itself says “unspeakeble crime” the secrecy sworn is because you are dealing with matters from confession, even a person accidentally overhearing a confession and who then reveals the sins of another is excommunicated. Priests have died to protect the sacramental seal. This is no news.
Priests who abuse children should spend the rest of their life in penance in jail, and ordinary priests and laypeople should also spend the rest of their lives in penance because that’s what Our Lady asked for.
The Catholic laymen get the priests they deserve so stop blaming the hierarchy this is our punishment for our sins and it’s just. God is in charge.
Priests who abuse children should spend the rest of their life in penance in jail, and ordinary priests and laypeople should also spend the rest of their lives in penance because that’s what Our Lady asked for.
The Catholic laymen get the priests they deserve so stop blaming the hierarchy this is our punishment for our sins and it’s just. God is in charge.
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fix
Guest
Yes, there is abuse in every country and every culture. That is no cover-up.
M
michaelmac
Guest
What do you think has been going on in the U S A ,EVERY Diocese in Ireland has admited covering up abuse, there has been enquirys into cover up in Australia in every diocese every diocese in the U K has coveredup abuse , they leader of the Church in the U K CPOVERED UP ABUSE When he was a bishop
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zorrox
Guest
People back then did not know how to adress child abuse (and they don’t know now either) so do not make rash judgements.
Somehow I’m not very astonished when Satan and his allies try to make Holy Church and the Vicar of Christ look bad, are you?
Somehow I’m not very astonished when Satan and his allies try to make Holy Church and the Vicar of Christ look bad, are you?
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fix
Guest
There is no doubt many bishops tried to cover up things. That does not mean there is a conspiracy from the Vatican.
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dulcissima
Guest
I agree. Look at what the OP, a victim himself, pointed out. Even the parents have been inclined to cover things up. It is human nature, and that is why we see this type of thing covered up world-wide, in all organizations, not just the Catholic Church.
S
Saint_Michael
Guest
To believe that the Vatican was completely unaware of what was going on amongst the Bishops covering up sex crimes requires a huge amount of faith.
It’s akin to believing the Enron CEO, CIO and other executives were completely unaware to what was going on. There’s no way a scandal of this magnitude evaded the eyes and ears of the Vatican for nearly half a century and 5,000 accusations, there’s just no way.
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zorrox
Guest
To St Michael People even stayed Catholic under the renaissance popes, Why? Because even if there are bad priests and bishops and even popes the salvation of your soul is more important than any scandals.
S
Saint_Michael
Guest
Here’s the challenge, if anyone can show me one instance before this scandal blew up of a Bishop or another priest notifying the authorities of a sexual predator preying on parishoners children, prior to the media blowing the lid off this thing I will remain Catholic. Now there are ~ 5,000 accusations of molestation so this should be easy to locate one case.
If not how can I come to any other conclusion but the Church is woefully corrupt and lead by wolves in sheeps clothing?
I’m not asking for perfection, I’m asking for no cover ups and even a glimmer of someone doing the right thing.
I don’t say this as a “woe is me, pity me I’ll make a bargain and remain Catholic”, it’s more to prove a point.
To the poster who was a victim of abuse and their parents remained silent my heart goes out to you. Your parents should be arrested too.
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fix
Guest
But there are several factors that need to be considered. It seems you want to impute bad actions to all involved as if there were a many men at the top seeking to do bad.
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fix
Guest
Why would that matter? Is truth based on the behavior of a few men?
And the rest of society is led by whom? All folks doing good deeds all the time?
This is ridiculous. There are plenty of examples of clerics doing good.
P
pnewton
Guest
I finally got that darn pdf loaded and finished reading down to the appendix. WOW! Is this ever much ado about nothing. Thank goodness that courts of law show more diligence to the truth than does the BBC.
Using this document as evidence of cover-up to child sexual abuse is dishonest and deceiptful. I have no doubt that the idea came from the mouth of the Father of Lies to the ears of the BBC.
First and most striking, if one was not already thinking child sexual abuse, is that the document is not about child sexual abuse. It is about sexual solicitation by priest. MInors are only mentioned in two sentences and the rest of this large document, including all the highlighted sections, do not deal with children. The whole tone, in harmony with a 1960 mindset deals with preist trying to solicit adults.
The first time minors are mentioned has to do with secrecy. This is said to be a special concern in dealing with minor. WIth our hindsight we see where secrecy has caused problems, but I would like to point out two things. First, even civil law protect the anonimity of minors with special legislation. Information regarding juveniles is limited for the protection of the young person. Second, newspapers, likewise are restricted in printing certain information about minors. Again, this is done for the protection of minors. It is only anti-Catholic sentiment that would read the language of that paragraph and not see concern for the minor, even though this practice did cause problems when applied to child sexual abuse.
The second time minors are mentioned is in conjunction with the punishment for offenses. Involving a minor is one of several reasons why punishment should be severe, along with involving a religious sister or using sex for mistical religious purposes. This document is no more about child abuse than it is about relations with religious sisters or mystical experience.
Using this document as evidence of cover-up to child sexual abuse is dishonest and deceiptful. I have no doubt that the idea came from the mouth of the Father of Lies to the ears of the BBC.
First and most striking, if one was not already thinking child sexual abuse, is that the document is not about child sexual abuse. It is about sexual solicitation by priest. MInors are only mentioned in two sentences and the rest of this large document, including all the highlighted sections, do not deal with children. The whole tone, in harmony with a 1960 mindset deals with preist trying to solicit adults.
The first time minors are mentioned has to do with secrecy. This is said to be a special concern in dealing with minor. WIth our hindsight we see where secrecy has caused problems, but I would like to point out two things. First, even civil law protect the anonimity of minors with special legislation. Information regarding juveniles is limited for the protection of the young person. Second, newspapers, likewise are restricted in printing certain information about minors. Again, this is done for the protection of minors. It is only anti-Catholic sentiment that would read the language of that paragraph and not see concern for the minor, even though this practice did cause problems when applied to child sexual abuse.
The second time minors are mentioned is in conjunction with the punishment for offenses. Involving a minor is one of several reasons why punishment should be severe, along with involving a religious sister or using sex for mistical religious purposes. This document is no more about child abuse than it is about relations with religious sisters or mystical experience.
C
Caesar
Guest
After some reading, I have to come to the conclusion that the BBC went about this all wrong.
They seem to have combined two differant documents to suit their argument, one which deals with the Seal of the Confessional; and instead of pointing the finger at individual Bishops, where the blame belongs, they go after the Holy See. The BBC also seems to make the common (and erroneous) assumption that the Catholic Church hierachy operates in the same way as a corporation or a government- it does not. On top of that, their methods remind me of the sensationalist garbage of the tabloids, exploiting a situation for pure profit and gain. Instead of taking a rational approach they brought in a global conspiracy theory.
I’d go so far as to say that the BBC has just stopped short of saying “lets get a rope and hange the Pope!”.
They seem to have combined two differant documents to suit their argument, one which deals with the Seal of the Confessional; and instead of pointing the finger at individual Bishops, where the blame belongs, they go after the Holy See. The BBC also seems to make the common (and erroneous) assumption that the Catholic Church hierachy operates in the same way as a corporation or a government- it does not. On top of that, their methods remind me of the sensationalist garbage of the tabloids, exploiting a situation for pure profit and gain. Instead of taking a rational approach they brought in a global conspiracy theory.
I’d go so far as to say that the BBC has just stopped short of saying “lets get a rope and hange the Pope!”.
S
Saint_Michael
Guest
I think that is a pretty poor translation of what I actually asked for an you know it. Of course clerics do good. I was addressing the SPECIFIC example of the sexual abuse scandal. Can you cite me one reference of a Bishop or priest notifying authorities and doing the right thing before the lid was blown off this thing? What does that say if out of 5,000 allegations in the US through hundreds possibly thousands of parishes you can not cite me one reference of a Bishop or priest notifying the authorities to protect children.
F
fix
Guest
So, your position is there is a grand conspiracy from the vicar of Christ on down to intentionally foil law enforcement?
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