Sex!

[Mac6yver]

jlw:

You believe that the ultimate authority in this incredibly wondrously created world is *you. *

*We don’t. *

No I don’t. I would not speak for you, why are you speaking for me?

 

[Mary3]

Mac6yver:

In my mind there are two kinds of copulating. There is sex, and then there is making love. I personally have no problem with sex outside of marriage, I did it, and I do not regret it. That is not to say that my path is for everyone, we each have our choices to make. I try not to denigrate those who choose to remain a virgin until marriage, I think it should go both ways.

The question is not one of tolerating legitimate differences. The question is about what God desires. There is only one Truth in this matter.

 

[jlw]

Mac6yver:

No I don’t. I would not speak for you, why are you speaking for me?

By your comments you suggest that your choices have no consequences outside of your own feelings on the matter.

 

[Mac6yver]

I have different feelings as to what God wants from us. That is the difference.

 

[jlw]

Mac6yver:

I have different feelings as to what God wants from us. That is the difference.

RIGHT!

YOU have FEELINGS about what YOU (think) God wants from us.

 

[Mac6yver]

If that is what you are stating, then yes. However it is not based simply on emotional feeling, but also my lifes experience.

 

[Tlaloc]

Kevin Walker:

Answered with the typical narcissism and hedonism of a sybarite or a homosexual; who misuses sex for pleasure rather than procreation.

Remember what I said about how you always seem to bring up homosexuality?

 

[Tlaloc]

jlw:

Art moves us emotionally.

Sex can too.

Ar moves us intellectually.

Sex can too.

Art informs us.

Sex can too.

Art is an act of expression

Sex is too.

Art is an act of creativity

Sex is too.

Art does not create a BRAND NEW LIFE.

Neither does most sex.

Art may portray life and death, but it does not CREATE LIFE OR DEATH.

Depends on the art in question. Since both Sex and death can be a part of art you’d be wrong to say Art never does so.

There would be no ART if we had not been CREATED by SEX, in order to express ourselves artistically.

True but really not relevent.

Art may express hatred, violence, and have exploitive intent. Is such art in the same neigborhood of consequence as sex done in hatred and violence or exploitation??

Certainly it may be. Watch the Triumph of the Will sometime to see how powerful hateful art may be.

 

[jlw]

Mac6yver:

If that is what you are stating, then yes. However it is not based simply on emotional feeling, but also my lifes experience.

Then leave emotionality out of it then…

Your* ultimate* authority of right and wrong, good or bad, truth or falacy is based on YOUR OWN experiences and what YOU think of them??

 

[Mycroft]

tlaloc you still got it wrong when you answered what sex is for. you said its like asking what art is for. and lets see, art is for expressing yourself and to create pleasing images. thats what it was made for. sex is for having children. we dont have sex to have pleasing images, and art doesnt create children. what you said dosnt make sense.

 

[Mac6yver]

jlw:

Then leave emotionality out of it then…

Your* ultimate* authority of right and wrong, good or bad, truth or falacy is based on YOUR OWN experiences and what YOU think of them??

Yes

 

[st_felicity]

Tlaloc:

Sex can too.

Sex can too.

Sex can too.

Sex is too.

Sex is too.

Neither does most sex.

Depends on the art in question. Since both Sex and death can be a part of art you’d be wrong to say Art never does so.

True but really not relevent.

Certainly it may be. Watch the Triumph of the Will sometime to see how powerful hateful art may be.

Are you one of those guys that argue porno mags are really filled with “art”?

 

[Tlaloc]

Okayyy. Then let me say that sex within a husband and wife marriage is for the soul what wholesome, organic, nutritent rich, foods are for the body and all other sex is to the soul what cancerous junk food is to the body - the effect may not be instant, but there is an effect.

That’s your belief.

I agree we are not simple creatures. Otherwise we’d just say no to sin and that’d be the end of the problem. However, I’m curious to know what benefits you speak of ???

How do you explain the benefits of society to someone who is a hermit? It affects so many aspects of who we are as to beggar description. Sex plays an enormous role in our socialization.

Actually I’ll take a stab at answering what art is for: Art is a physical manifestation of a mental concept or an interpretation of another physical object with the intent to project that concept/interpretation to others or to maintain for ones own use. Now whether or not it’s tastefull or talented art is a matter of debate for each subject matter.

That definition neglects all abstract art.

That said, what a particuliar art form is FOR is usually still quite clear. For example: an antique table may be an art piece, but it was created to be used as a table - not a car, or dishwasher, or whatever. To use it for something other than a table would destroy the object and may even make it unfit for what it was originally intended for.

Really? Then what is music for? is it to make you feel happy or sad? or to think? Or to extoll greatness? There are an endless ways that artists use music to do things.

I maintain sex was created for a husband and wife to become one in spirit and to open the possiblity of creating new life. If you contend it was not for that or not just for that purpose - then what purpose/meaning do you give it? Any at all?

Of course. Sex has millions of meanings depending on the people and the situation. It may mean “I love you” or “I like you” or “I care for you” or “I want to help you” or “I’m frightened” or “I’m happy” or “I’m happy you’re happy” ad infinitum

As long as you and your partner are clear on what it means it can be used to any number of ends. I had one partner who was a friend of mine and our intimacy was a purely physical component of our friendship when we both needed some. It was wonderful. We’re still friends, but no longer lovers. Of course at some future point we may be lovers again. My current girlfriend and soon to be wife and I have been intimate in many different ways meaning many different things. Sometimes its a mutual show of love. Sometimes one of us is supporting the other. Sometimes one or both just wants release.

The problems come in when you mean one thing with sex and your partner means something else. That can happen through deception or miscommunication and I recommend avoiding both. I’ve certainly known people who will say anything to get someone into bed. It’s unfortunate, and they’ll never really mature into full human beings. I’ve also known people who go into every sexual relationship thinking it can only mean one thing and not bothering to ever talk about what precisely it means.

This is part of why I have an open relationship. Sex can mean a wide variety of different things and it doesn’t cheapen what I have with my long term partner just because I share something with another person. Just as you have multiple friends but a few close best-friends.

 

[Mycroft]

tlaloc what do you expect when you argue with catholics who will always have different beliefs than you? your not going to change what anyone thinks, and since this is a catholic forum im guessing were supposed to be discussing this topic with the idea that we all are catholic…its not gonna work otherwise. your just wasting your time.

 

[jlw]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlw
*Art moves us emotionally.
*

Sex can too. RIGHT.

Quote:
Ar moves us intellectually.

Sex can too. RIGHT.

Quote:
Art informs us.

Sex can too. RIGHT.
Quote:
Art is an act of expression

Sex is too. RIGHT.

Quote:
Art is an act of creativity

Sex is too. RIGHT, AGAIN!!

Quote:

Art does not create a BRAND NEW LIFE.

Neither does most sex. BUT ART NEVER DOES. AND THAT MAKES SEX 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 TIMES MORE CONSEQUENTIAL.

Quote:
Art may portray life and death, but it does not CREATE LIFE OR DEATH.

Depends on the art in question. Since both Sex and death can be a part of art you’d be wrong to say Art never does so. SEX MIGHT BE CALLED ARTFUL IN DESCRIPTION, AND ART MAY BE CALLED SEXUAL IN DESCRIPTION, BUT SEX AS AN ACT CREATES NEW LIFE, ART MERELY EXPRESSES IT. HUGE, HUGE DIFFERENCE.

Quote:
There would be no ART if we had not been CREATED by SEX, in order to express ourselves artistically.

True but really not relevent. HOW SO?? SEX CREATES HUMANS. ART DOESN’T EXIST WITHOUT HUMANS TO CREATE IT. ART “DEPENDS” ON SEX TO CREATE ITS CREATORS, EH?? SEX DOESN’T NEED ART. SEX IS TIED TO ALL EXISTENCE. YOUR EQUATING OF SEX AND ART IS FALSE.

Quote:
Art may express hatred, violence, and have exploitive intent. Is such art in the same neigborhood of consequence as sex done in hatred and violence or exploitation??

Certainly it may be. Watch the Triumph of the Will sometime to see how powerful hateful art may be. OBJECTS THAT CAUSE HATE OR VIOLENCE IS DIFFERENT THAN THE ACTUAL ACT OF HATE, VIOLENCE, OR EXPLOITATION, ESPECIALLY IN THE AREA OF SEX, DON’T YOU THINK??

 

[Mycroft]

thank you JLW for showing the flawed logic he uses.

 

[jlw]

Originally Posted by jlw
*Then leave emotionality out of it then…

Your ultimate** authority of right and wrong, good or bad, truth or falacy is based on YOUR OWN experiences and what YOU think of them??*
Yes.

So…You, (to paraphrase Danny Glover in Grand Canyon:

“being about as significant as a gnat on the rear of a cow chewing his cud in a field by a road where a Mack truck speeds by at 70 miles an hour”
**
…think that your opinion about your experiences in this universe (we think we conmprehend) are the beginning and the end of ultimate truth??

 

[Tlaloc]

Mycroft:

tlaloc what do you expect when you argue with catholics who will always have different beliefs than you? your not going to change what anyone thinks, and since this is a catholic forum im guessing were supposed to be discussing this topic with the idea that we all are catholic…its not gonna work otherwise. your just wasting your time.

It’s my time to “waste” right? So why do you care?

Nice name by the way, I assume you use it in the sense of Sherlock’s brother?

 

[Mac6yver]

No, I freely admit that I could be wrong. You could be wrong, I could be wrong, anyonge could be wrong.

 

[Tlaloc]

jlw:

Neither does most sex. BUT ART NEVER DOES. AND THAT MAKES SEX 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 TIMES MORE CONSEQUENTIAL.

Why? First off you’re wrong as below since the procreative process can most assuredly be part of art (see for instance the other thread about the National Geographic movie on the development of the fetus). Secondly even if you could claim art and sex were separate you’d still have to show how creating life is smoehowm more consequential than not creating life. You take it as a given I don’t. Beyond that you’d also have to show that just because Sex can create life that means even non-procreative sex is also more consequential than art.

Depends on the art in question. Since both Sex and death can be a part of art you’d be wrong to say Art never does so. SEX MIGHT BE CALLED ARTFUL IN DESCRIPTION, AND ART MAY BE CALLED SEXUAL IN DESCRIPTION, BUT SEX AS AN ACT CREATES NEW LIFE, ART MERELY EXPRESSES IT. HUGE, HUGE DIFFERENCE.

Not really since sex can be part of the art however.

True but really not relevent. HOW SO?? SEX CREATES HUMANS. ART DOESN’T EXIST WITHOUT HUMANS TO CREATE IT. ART “DEPENDS” ON SEX TO CREATE ITS CREATORS, EH?? SEX DOESN’T NEED ART. SEX IS TIED TO ALL EXISTENCE. YOUR EQUATING OF SEX AND ART IS FALSE.

I’m comparing them, not equating them.

Certainly it may be. Watch the Triumph of the Will sometime to see how powerful hateful art may be. OBJECTS THAT CAUSE HATE OR VIOLENCE IS DIFFERENT THAN THE ACTUAL ACT OF HATE, VIOLENCE, OR EXPLOITATION, ESPECIALLY IN THE AREA OF SEX, DON’T YOU THINK??

Sure it is different but thats because no two acts of violence are ever really the same. They all are different from each other. Some are physical and some mental, and we could even positi some are spiritual. But even among violence of a certain “type” each instance is unique.