Sex!

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The questions is, “what is sex for?” In the absolute sense, why don’t we simply ask what everything is for? Not, “what can something be USED for?” That can yield quite a different answer from, “what is something MADE TO BE USED for?” We can all abuse everything and most of us have abused quite a lot of things.

So, sex can be used for any number of purposes. However, sex is MADE to be used, in the context of a married relationship, to bring new life into the world and enrich conjugal love. Sex is meant to mysteriously mirror Trinitarian love. Sex is meant, as an ultimate end, to glorify God and His mystery.

And so is everything else, if used in the right context.

This is separate from any subjective value we might place on it, like saying, “sex is a secret and I would only share secrets with very special people.” Sure, and right you would be to think this way, yet the statement can be seen as arbitrary. Objectively, sex is meant to glorify God, and that gives sex its uniqueness and the whole of its value; and it is because of its ultimate purpose that we can make any of a number of other beautiful statements about sex.
 
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jlw:
But both the Muslim and I would say the same thing TO YOU.

We may theologically quibble, but both the Muslim and I are putting our money on a God of Consequence.

We have a fighting shot at a reward if we are right, lose nothing if we are wrong.

If you are right, you don’t lose, If you are wrong, you LOSE BIGTIME??

Still putting your money on that bet??
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My belief is that God will not punish me for engaging in pre-marital sex. So I do not fear “Hell”.
 
Tyler Smedley:
Why wouldn’t it be your first choice?
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Well sometimes when you get to be my age, a good meal and a cuddle on the couch or Sunday morning in bed with the coffee and papers is pretty nice too

My fiancé is 3000 miles away right now and I would give my eyeteeth just hold her ……hand

Not that I got that “Bob Dole“ thing going on :eek:

Grrrrr caveman hunts mammoth, wants cavewoman! 😉

But you know, life is hard and sometimes a shoulder is just what you need
Other times you need something a little further south

Sex is great

But it is not everything
Far from it
Which is why wrapping a marriage solely up in it seems kind of …self defeating

Pro-life -teen sounds just like a …teen

It will be interesting to hear what she has to say 30 years from now
 
I sound like a teen? Funny, most teens I know are talking about sex, and I don’t mean they’re talking about abstinence.

I wish most teens sounded like me.

Ok, so I sound like a teen. Well, I am a teen. A teen commited to chastity and their future spouse.
 
Alterum said:
……So, sex can be used for any number of purposes. However, sex is MADE to be used, in the context of a married relationship, to bring new life into the world and enrich conjugal love…….
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Sex started out as merely a reproductive act…milions of years ago

But if you look at humans and the primates, especially the bonobo, you will see that it has evolved into a far more versatile social tool.

The very fact that humans don’t have an estrus cycle frees sex for non-reproductive uses.

Why do you think people engage in sex after they can no longer have children?
 
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Pro-Life_Teen:
I sound like a teen? Funny, most teens I know are talking about sex, and I don’t mean they’re talking about abstinence.

I wish most teens sounded like me.

Ok, so I sound like a teen. Well, I am a teen. A teen commited to chastity and their future spouse.
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When I said you sounded like a teen I was referring to your absolute certainty.

Only teenagers have that luxury.
 
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Mac6yver:
My belief is that God will not punish me for engaging in pre-marital sex. So I do not fear “Hell”.
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If you were open to life (His Will), ok, but if you arrogantly got in the way (willfully contracepting)…then you take that risk. Doesn’t seem to be a good bet if you ask me.

Besides, it’s not just the act He may remember…it’s the fact you have no regret about it that probably troubles Him more. No?
 
If I told you friendship was only for two people and that it was wrong to ever be friends with anyone else and you only got to pick one person to be firends with for the rest of your life would you do it? Probably not. You’d see immediately the huge loss you’d suffer from cutting yourself off from humanity that way and the incredible danger of having to make a lifetime commitment on limited information. I see sex exactly the same way
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ahhh, I see now. You aren’t willing to take such a leap of faith that another will have such love for you. In an effort to avoid the risk of failure in this regard you give a little of yourself to many because you fear giving all of yourself to anyone.:hmmm: I am not cutting myself off from humanity. To the contrary, there are few things as human as sacrificing all of your being joyfully and entirely for another. And nothing more heaven sent than finding it makes you more rather than less of a person for having done so.

You also mention that your future wife will “have a special place in your heart” seperate from your other lovers - in what way will she be special? Or more to the point, in what way will your relationship “benefit” from your “sharing” with others?:hmmm:

And yes my definition of art did include the abstract - abstract is nothing more than a mental concept or idea.
How do you explain the benefits of society to someone who is a hermit? It affects so many aspects of who we are as to beggar description. Sex plays an enormous role in our socialization
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Did you just call me a hermit??? Sounds kind of nice to try for a day or so – but then I’d actually start to miss the craziness of raising 7 children in a world that you seem to think revolves around sex! I’ll agree society does affect many varied aspects of who we are - but to suggest that any 1 aspect of society (sexual intercourse) is our sum total as a being is silly. When you refer to sex playing a role in our socialization - okay that’s a little bit off the rocker for me. Not once has my sex life or the lack there-of had a “huge” role in anything. Do I like and enjoy it? - oh yeah - you bet! But it is not a key factor in how I work, play, talk, meet people, run errands, clean house, do taxes or any number of things that make up my socialization in the world around me. Maybe YOU have issues that need dealt with if it has become that big a socialization issue in your life?
Really? Then what is music for? is it to make you feel happy or sad? or to think? Or to extoll greatness? There are an endless ways that artists use music to do things.
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Music is a language - it is to communicate our thoughts and feelings and ideas. And like any language there is of course a range of conversation, dialect, and tone - but it is still a language. The intelligence and usefullness of it may be of debate, but it is still a language.
Sex can mean a wide variety of different things and it doesn’t cheapen what I have with my long term partner just because I share something with another person. Just as you have multiple friends but a few close best-friends
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So “sharing” sex with another person is no different to you than sharing a…oh let’s say… a cup of tea and stimulating conversation? Man, I gotta tell you, if that’s your idea of good sex - it’s no wonder you don’t put much sacredness in it. Yes, I have several degrees of friendship with people other than my spouse. But what seperates his level of friendship from them is that absolutely no one shares in any part of myself. I would talk to them. But I would not confide in them. I would offer them a hug in shared empathy. But I would not cling to them as I do him. I would give them my bed. But I would not share it with them. I would have love for them. But would not be in love with them.

Knowing the above difference, why would I need or even want to settle for such a pale imitation of it?
 
Tyler Smedley:
Why wouldn’t it be your first choice?
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I gotta stop reading these boards late at night

I misunderstood what part of my text you were referring to when you asked this question.

It wouldn’t be my first choice because it runs the risk of discovering serious incompatibilities too late in the game. And based on my personal experience that is not worth any hypothetical rewards.
 
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Mycroft:
am i the only one who thinks its really weird how much this is focusing on art? im not sure when art actually became relevant to sex…
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It’s called grasping at straws.
 
Steve A I noticed you characterized my mentioning of STDs as “obsessive.” No not obsessive, just pointing out that there are sometimes consequences for our actions even if our minds are at ease about them. I have read many times that STDs are running rampantly through the populations of young sexually active people. There was a time when STDs were a public health issue and cases were reported, followed up and treated. Because of the homosexual lobby that put the kabosh on treating a health issue like (imagine this!) a health issue instead of a political football, such mandatory reporting and contacting has gone away, much to the detriment of the younger generation. Given the multiple partners many have and given the exponential exposure by considering all of the partners of your partners and their partners into infinity, the chances of contracting an STD are pretty high. I read somewhere that a majority of sexually active men carry HPV. Great…Tlaloc’s assertion that by knowing his partners he avoids one of these nasty little critters is hopelessly naive.

Given that people like you, Tlaloc, Mac6iver etc are not at all impressed by the possibility of consequences of sin, I did want to point out the health risks. If you consider that suggesting a casual sexual encounter is hardly worth risking disease or even death is obsessive, so be it. Just don’t pretend there are not actual consequences even if you sleep well tonight.

Lisa N
 
If I told you friendship was only for two people and that it was wrong to ever be friends with anyone else and you only got to pick one person to be firends with for the rest of your life would you do it? Probably not. You’d see immediately the huge loss you’d suffer from cutting yourself off from humanity that way and the incredible danger of having to make a lifetime commitment on limited information. I see sex exactly the same way
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On the contrary. If I was told that I had to have a lot of ‘friends’ and I no longer had that special place in my spouse’s heart, I would be devastated. When all else in this world goes to (bleh) I know at the end of the day, he loves me. There isn’t a lot in this world you can count on, but he’s one thing I can. There’s never any doubt.

To know that he had a lot of other ‘friends’ and that our time together wouldn’t be for just us. Who know what or who else he’s thinking of, comparing me to, just wouldn’t be right. What’s the point?

I know that my husband loves me above all others. And I am so lucky to have the luxury of knowing that neither of us have had ‘others’. We share a bond so special, that has always just been between us, and always will be.

If I was told that I couldn’t have this, I don’t know how I could handle it. To know that I would just be one of ‘many’ friends of my husband. But hey I get to have friends too… that is like trying to fill a void that every time you think you fill it, it’s doubled in size again.

I just find that whole analagy sad.
 
For those who believe in the Lord, it is obvious that sex is a gift from God to be shared between married couple both for procreation and strengthening their love for each other. It is this intimacy which demonstrates how they have changed from two separate beings, to one being in Christ.

A priest once told me:

“One of my favorite things about the Catholic appreciation of betrothal and marriage is that our Lord identifies himself with the beloved. The holy love of man and woman is not idolatry because to the extent that you love one another, you also love Jesus.”

Now for the Catholics here (and maybe some of the non Catholic believers in God/Christianity) it is obvious the meaning behind sex. But if you imagine you are maybe 12 or 13 years old and the only morals you have ever been taught are that you come from a one night stand and your single parent is promiscuous then it is harder to know how to compare. For those who come to Christ after these mistakes they obviously regret them but sometimes are too hard on themselves. The Lord forgives us when we know not what we do…
 
I’m assuming these people who think pre-marital sex “and all that good stuff” is okay are the non-Christians on here?

How can you call yourself a Christian if you think fornication is okay?? Do you not realize you are on a rocket-ship to you-know-where?

The Bible very clearly, very specifically, says that people who practice fornication are NOT going to heaven.

Sheesh. I thought Catholics were conservative. My husband works with a Catholic who is pro-choice, lives with her boyfriend, does drugs, and goes to mass every sunday. Hypocrite!
 
Christian4life - I completely agree. When I found sex and drugs as a teenager I left the Church. I am now looking for a way back but refuse to be a hypocrite (Drugs are now detested by me and although my boyfriend lives in my house we do not sleep together - long complicated story re finances!)

Until I know I will accept Church teaching in her entirety I will not attend confession and start receiving the Eucharist again. To do so would be the height of hypocrisy to me. I agree we are all sinners - it is not the sin but the disrespect it shows the Church and therefore Christ, to pretend to belong while secretly breaking the rules…
 
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jlw:
Then leave emotionality out of it then…

Your* ultimate* authority of right and wrong, good or bad, truth or falacy is based on YOUR OWN experiences and what YOU think of them??
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So?

Honestly, who seems the fool:
  1. the man that bases his morals around his own experiences and thoughts
or
  1. the man that bases his morals around the historically unverifiable stories of the religious visions of an ancient sheepherder named Moses?
Hmm…

clarkal
 
Steve Andersen:
Sex is great

But it is not everything
Far from it
Which is why wrapping a marriage solely up in it seems kind of …self defeating

Pro-life -teen sounds just like a …teen

It will be interesting to hear what she has to say 30 years from now
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Oh, I so agree that sex is not everything. Of course it’s not! No person abstaining from sex before marriage would argue with you on this point. It’s a part of marriage, we do not “wrap marriage up in it.” It’s a way to bond with for a woman to bond with her husband and a man to bond with his wife and to build a strong, lifelong bond that cannot be broken. But it’s “a way” to do that. It’s also the only way to have children, which gives it a very important place in life and marriage.

Pro-life teen sounds like me when I was a teen. Yes, she sounds like a teen, but do not discount her beliefs just because she is younger than you. I have had more life experience now, and I still understand with absolute certainty that sex belongs inside marriage, that it is created for procreation (athough it may not always lead to that end).

I made this view known to friends in high school, and they told me I would be the first one of the bunch to have sex because once I knew more, I’d understand the tempation of sex and understand that waiting is “unrealistic.” Well, I do not know where some of these girls are now, but I have seen and understand the temptation of sex outside of marriage, but I have decided to wait.

In just under half a year I will be married to my fiance, my best friend and, by far, the greatest man I have ever known. I am filled with joy at the knowledge that he and I can experience something together that we have not given away or trivialized. We will share something we have never and will never share with anyone else. What a gift! What a blessing.

I feel so special to know that only I will ever experience sex with my fiance. He waited for me. He made it through all the temptations that face young men today, then he made it through college. He’s now 29. Wow, I must be very special for him to sacrifice and to wait for me.
 
Over 3000 years have shown Moses heard from God, for time has proven to look to another woman than your wife for sex destroys the family and so the foundations of human community.

All who do so deserve damnation as they have betrayed the children of men. But if we repent we have assurance that Christ will forgive us and in the Eucharist help us fight our own wants and ideas and live the moral life given to man kind over 3000 years ago.

John
 
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