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jlw
Guest
I’ll be the humble fool, you can be the arrogant agoraphobe, and we’ll place our bets…and see what happens.
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jlw
Guest
It is true that with age comes experience, and often with it comes wisdom, but TRUTH can be known at any age, and because she recognizes Truth, I’d say she is very wise, indeed.
It is true that often the young are ignorant, but age should not be an automatic excuse for ignorance.
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Lisa_N
Guest
Oh my what a peculiar comment. So you think that our entire worldview is based on “the unverified stories of religious visions of an ancient sheepherder?” That trivializes thousands of years of tradition, history, laws and societal norms.
Those who base their entire moral code on their own experiences are relativists. We all have different experiences and reactions to those experiences. You act as if there are no truths and no such thing as natural law. Is that your contention?
Lisa N
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Mac6yver
Guest
I do not think you understand what I believe. I do not believe God is bothered by the fact that I engaged in pre-marital sex. So why would he care if I did not regret it since He does not give it a second thought…
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Lisa_N
Guest
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Like many relativists you have created a God that suits your purposes and allows you to engage in any behavior you can personally justify. I can see why a god like that would be appealing. You can ‘have your cake and eat it too’ with that kind of a weak willed god. Your god may not care what you do. Many of us believe in a God who does. Again your choice, your life, your soul and YMMV.
Lisa N
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jlw
Guest
As if God acts (or doesn’t) based on YOUR opinions…???
It still boils down to faith, doesn’t it??
You have faith in a god of NO consequence.
I have faith in a God OF consequence.
Gentlemen, place your bets.
I believe in God, a God of purpose, of meaning, of justice. AND I still have my free will to think and experience. I just think and experience with the humble faith that God’s Will is greater than my own, as valuable as it is.
You…just have your own thoughts and experiences. Ho-hum.
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adnauseum
Guest
Maybe we could just put up a giant roulette wheel and spin it every year to decide what’s right or wrong.
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Steven_Merten
Guest
Hello Mac6yver,
Jesus tells us that fornicators (those who have sex outside of marriage) go to hell. You must be speaking of a false god when you say that god is not bothered by fornication. You certianly are not speaking of the Father and Jesus Who are our true God.
NAB REV 22:12
“Remember, I am coming soon! I bring with me the reward that will be given to each man as his conduct deserves. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End! **Happy are they who wash their robes so as to have free access to the tree of life **and enter the city through its gates Outside are the dogs and sorcerers, the fornicators and murderers, the idol-worshipers and all who love falsehood.”
Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
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Alterum
Guest
Steve Andersen:
I question, however, whether I’m speaking to a Catholic. If I’m not speaking to a Catholic then this is utterly pointless.
Also, I’d just like to point out the subtle condescension you employed in referring to Pro-Life_Teen as a “teen,” and going on to imply that it was because of some sort of ignorant certainty that only teens possess. I think you’ll find that most Catholics on these forums also possess the same level of certainty when it pertains to intrinsically evil actions.
This simply did not address my comment. You’re telling me the many uses of sex in nature, and saying that since humans don’t have an estrous cycle, then one end of sex isn’t reproduction. The conclusion simply doesn’t follow. Moreover, I think the bonobo is in a sense perhaps one of the greatest contrasts we have to the human, and it points to the lack of recognition of any sort of morality in the animal world. Humans are truly unique
I question, however, whether I’m speaking to a Catholic. If I’m not speaking to a Catholic then this is utterly pointless.Also, I’d just like to point out the subtle condescension you employed in referring to Pro-Life_Teen as a “teen,” and going on to imply that it was because of some sort of ignorant certainty that only teens possess. I think you’ll find that most Catholics on these forums also possess the same level of certainty when it pertains to intrinsically evil actions.
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Mac6yver
Guest
Steven Merten:
Thats great. That is what you believe, not what I believe. Honestly guys, if you wish to have a civil debate I am more then up to the task. However, if you are trying to convert me, or “save” me, I suggest you save your words. Your attempts to assimilate me are an exercise in futility. We will just have to agree to disagree.
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Lisa_N
Guest
Steve Andersen:
As to ‘estrus’ realize this refers to a fertile period and humans do have fertile and non-fertile periods. That women while ovulating do not present themselves to any available male as do other members of the animal kingdom is IMO ‘a good thing’ and indicates a higher level of thought process and morality.
The receptivity during non-fertile periods within the human species makes perfect sense given the length of time for gestation and development of our offspring. In order to help cement pair bonds, certainly having a sexual relationship other than during ovulation is not only divinely ordained but makes perfect sense to the most secular Darwinist. After all those females who can keep a protective, breadwinning male around is far more likely to be able to reproduce and raise children to maturity. OTOH the same secular Darwinist can also see the logic behind monogamous pair bonds in the human species as males are not likely to hang around to raise other males’ children.
The older I get the more I realize that Moses was right all along
His’ visions’ have certainly stood the test of time havent they?
Lisa N
BAHAHA! well we had our homosexual apologists using penguin behavior to justify homosexuality. Now you are using the behavior of an ape to explain why sex is just a ‘social tool?’ Hopefully you do believe that humans are slightly different than other animals, even those with quite highly evolved brains.
As to ‘estrus’ realize this refers to a fertile period and humans do have fertile and non-fertile periods. That women while ovulating do not present themselves to any available male as do other members of the animal kingdom is IMO ‘a good thing’ and indicates a higher level of thought process and morality.
The receptivity during non-fertile periods within the human species makes perfect sense given the length of time for gestation and development of our offspring. In order to help cement pair bonds, certainly having a sexual relationship other than during ovulation is not only divinely ordained but makes perfect sense to the most secular Darwinist. After all those females who can keep a protective, breadwinning male around is far more likely to be able to reproduce and raise children to maturity. OTOH the same secular Darwinist can also see the logic behind monogamous pair bonds in the human species as males are not likely to hang around to raise other males’ children.
The older I get the more I realize that Moses was right all along
His’ visions’ have certainly stood the test of time havent they?Lisa N
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jlw
Guest
I have to agree with Mac6yver, here, folks.
Quoting scripture for him is useless. Quoting the Catechism is useless. If your goal is to have him run into the arms of God, don’t run up ahead of him and yell at him to run with you. Sit down with him first.
Gotta meet him where he’s at.
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Steven_Merten
Guest
Hello Mac6yver,
I am not trying to convert you. You have to do that. I am simply pointing out to other readers that what you are suggesting is not what Jesus taught us to believe so that you do not decieve others away from Jesus for a false god which you have created.
Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
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Lisa_N
Guest
The reason I try to always use secular logic as well. Hopefully something will connect
Lisa N
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mommy
Guest
What did you expect when you came to a Catholic forum? We’d just say “hey you like to do X, X and X? Well we don’t but NO problem! Have a nice day!” It’s up to us to spread the faith, and we’ll start with those who come to us (like on this message board)
As for a civil debate, I don’t think anyone’s been mean spirited or shot any personal attacks. I think what you see is a passion for God’s word and the Catholic faith.
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Mac6yver
Guest
Calm down, I never said this debate was anything but civil. I was just re-affirming that I wish it to remain civil.
Do you honestly believe that I am not aware of the Catholic Church’s position on the matter of sexuality? I do not need a lesson of what I already know.
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Lisa_N
Guest
Since you know the Catholic position on sexuality and you sure as heck aren’t going to convince any of US you are right and thousands of years of teachings and traditions are wrong, what is the point of your posting on this forum? Just curious, I am not saying you have no right to be here as long as you are civil.
Lisa N
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Pro-Life_Teen
Guest
I wonder where Tlaloc is, I’m waiting for his retort…
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Steve_Andersen
Guest
Lisa N:
in one post on the other thread there had to be several hundred words there and it seemed that STD appeared in just about every sentence.
I was about to cut and paste it and do word count but then I realized that that would be a little obsessive
Seriously though, it did seem to appear that almost every response you made went right back to STDs. The style was a little pedantic….as if people were somehow unaware of the risks
I wondered if you had some background in education
I’ve seen numbers ranging from 50-75% of all adults
But in the same publication the CDC also states that there are 20 million cases in the USA which is about 6-7% of the total population and maybe +/-10% (?) of the adult population so even the official numbers don’t add up. The CDC also gives a figure of 6.2 million new cases a year which doesn’t jibe at all with their total figure of 20 million.
Unless they meant 200 million! This, after you net out children and the celibate, would mean that we all have it already. So it may be a little late to start worrying about closing that barn door now.
Fortunately most strains are harmless, only about 1/3 are sexually transmitted, and most strains show no symptoms. Which is probably why it is difficult to get good numbers.
It’s ubiquitous presence in the population is interesting though. It has obviously been around for a looong while. So much for the good old days
Lisa N:
I didn’t say anything about that at all.
PS why would you lump me in with Tlalco?
That guy’s preaching open marriage for Goodness sake.
Lisa N:
You somehow translated my cherishing my past relationships as special parts of my life that I don’t regret into casual sexual encounters. Casual, disease ridden, sexual encounters at that. Eeeewww
We seem to be talking past each other
Like I wrote several times, a lot of life is risk management; physical and spiritual
Adult life is a game for the big kids
If you can’t stand the consequences of playing then take your ball and go home
Well that was sort of a half serious ribbing
in one post on the other thread there had to be several hundred words there and it seemed that STD appeared in just about every sentence.
I was about to cut and paste it and do word count but then I realized that that would be a little obsessive
Seriously though, it did seem to appear that almost every response you made went right back to STDs. The style was a little pedantic….as if people were somehow unaware of the risks
I wondered if you had some background in education
Lisa N said:
I’ve seen numbers ranging from 50-75% of all adults
But in the same publication the CDC also states that there are 20 million cases in the USA which is about 6-7% of the total population and maybe +/-10% (?) of the adult population so even the official numbers don’t add up. The CDC also gives a figure of 6.2 million new cases a year which doesn’t jibe at all with their total figure of 20 million.
Unless they meant 200 million! This, after you net out children and the celibate, would mean that we all have it already. So it may be a little late to start worrying about closing that barn door now.
Fortunately most strains are harmless, only about 1/3 are sexually transmitted, and most strains show no symptoms. Which is probably why it is difficult to get good numbers.
It’s ubiquitous presence in the population is interesting though. It has obviously been around for a looong while. So much for the good old days
Lisa N:
I didn’t say I wasn’t impressed with the consequences of sin
I didn’t say anything about that at all.
PS why would you lump me in with Tlalco?
That guy’s preaching open marriage for Goodness sake.
Lisa N:
I didn’t say that either
You somehow translated my cherishing my past relationships as special parts of my life that I don’t regret into casual sexual encounters. Casual, disease ridden, sexual encounters at that. Eeeewww
We seem to be talking past each other
Like I wrote several times, a lot of life is risk management; physical and spiritual
Adult life is a game for the big kids
If you can’t stand the consequences of playing then take your ball and go home
S
Steve_Andersen
Guest
Oh don’t misunderstand me
I wasn’t making fun of her or anything
It is just that the way she expressed herself reminded me of …me many years ago
It actually is quite refreshing
In small doses
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