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jlw
Guest
Great, now we are on to something…
SO, we both believe we were created by God, correct??
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SO, we both believe we were created by God, correct??
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Mac6yver
Guest
Yes, I believe that God had something to do with my being here. I am not sure I would use the exact words “God made me”. However, I am here thanks to God.
P
Pro-Life_Teen
Guest
Sex creates life. That’s the point of it. You can’t get pregnant any other way. Bad water won’t do it to you, wishing won’t, pills won’t… sex will.
Even animals get it.
In wolves, they mate for life the majority of the time. If their mate dies, they howl in sadness. Before the mating period there is a courting period, the wolves eat together, sleep side by side and there is no sex at all. Because to animals, sex is to make a new life.
Sex it to have pups, kits, cubs, whatever.
Animals never mate outside of the mating period. Which is mostly once or twice a year only.
Humans have feelings, we can think. Our minds go beyond instinct. When we have sex, we can bond with out spouse. We do bond with our spouse.
Surely humans can go beyond that animals are doing. Or at least equal it. Marry for life at least, and use sex to have children and bond the two of you.
Even animals get it.
In wolves, they mate for life the majority of the time. If their mate dies, they howl in sadness. Before the mating period there is a courting period, the wolves eat together, sleep side by side and there is no sex at all. Because to animals, sex is to make a new life.
Sex it to have pups, kits, cubs, whatever.
Animals never mate outside of the mating period. Which is mostly once or twice a year only.
Humans have feelings, we can think. Our minds go beyond instinct. When we have sex, we can bond with out spouse. We do bond with our spouse.
Surely humans can go beyond that animals are doing. Or at least equal it. Marry for life at least, and use sex to have children and bond the two of you.
J
jlw
Guest
Why? First off you’re wrong as below since the procreative process can most assuredly be part of art (see for instance the other thread about the National Geographic movie on the development of the fetus). HUH?? “PART OF ART”?? Secondly even if you could claim art and sex were separate you’d still have to show how creating life is smoehowm more consequential than not creating life. You take it as a given I don’t. GOTCHA. OK. THAN WE ARE AT AN IMPASSE. CASE CLOSED. Beyond that you’d also have to show that just because Sex can create life that means even non-procreative sex is also more consequential than art. BECAUSE THE HETEROSEXUAL ACT CAN CREATE NEW LIFE, IT STILL HAS MORE CONSEQUENCE.
Not really since sex can be part of the art however. AGAIN, “A PART”???
I’m comparing them, not equating them. GREAT, I’M COMPARING THEM TOO, AND IT IS LIKE COMPARING ACTUAL APPLES ON APPLE TREES TO PICTURE OF APPLES, OR A WRITTEN DESCRIPTION OF APPLES, OR A SONG ABOUT APPLES, OR A MOVIE OR PLAY ABOUT APPLES.
Sure it is different but thats because no two acts of violence are ever really the same. They all are different from each other. Some are physical and some mental, and we could even positi some are spiritual. But even among violence of a certain “type” each instance is unique. ASK A RAPE VICTIM ABOUT THIS. ACTUALLY BEING RAPED VS. SEEING A MOVIE ABOUT RAPE?? YOU REALLY ARE SPEAKING GIBBERISH, NOW.
Not really since sex can be part of the art however. AGAIN, “A PART”???
I’m comparing them, not equating them. GREAT, I’M COMPARING THEM TOO, AND IT IS LIKE COMPARING ACTUAL APPLES ON APPLE TREES TO PICTURE OF APPLES, OR A WRITTEN DESCRIPTION OF APPLES, OR A SONG ABOUT APPLES, OR A MOVIE OR PLAY ABOUT APPLES.
Sure it is different but thats because no two acts of violence are ever really the same. They all are different from each other. Some are physical and some mental, and we could even positi some are spiritual. But even among violence of a certain “type” each instance is unique. ASK A RAPE VICTIM ABOUT THIS. ACTUALLY BEING RAPED VS. SEEING A MOVIE ABOUT RAPE?? YOU REALLY ARE SPEAKING GIBBERISH, NOW.
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Tlaloc
Guest
However that does not logically mean that procreation is the only end to which sex can be put.
Some animals are mongamous and some are not but in neither case does it really help your case as animals engage in a lot of behavior that is sexual but not procreative. Go down to the local zoo and watch the primates if you don’t believe me. Animals definitely use sex for more than just procreation.
We can also bond with people who are not our spouses.
Let me put it this way: If I told you friendship was only for two people and that it was wrong to ever be friends with anyone else and you only got to pick one person to be firends with for the rest of your life would you do it? Probably not. You’d see immediately the huge loss you’d suffer from cutting yourself off from humanity that way and the incredible danger of having to make a lifetime commitment on limited information.
I see sex exactly the same way.
You can certainly believe and do whatever you want.
T
Tlaloc
Guest
Yes, sex can be part of art making the procreative process (if said sex is procreative) also part of art.
BECAUSE THE HETEROSEXUAL ACT CAN CREATE NEW LIFE, IT STILL HAS MORE CONSEQUENCE.
I’m not sure I buy that. Why would a sexual act that doesn’t result in procreation be more consequential?
No, it’s like comparing two things that are extremely huge sweeping aspects of life to one another. Comparing poetry to music, or love to death. These are the primordial elements of what we call life. Sex, Art, Death, Love, etcetera.
Maybe because you keep using the gibberish filter? And are the all caps really needed?
Art can most certainly contain violence. And that violence is no less or more real even if it exists on a mental plane. You have to be able to follow me on this after all your faith considers sin to essentially be violence against your soul. This shouldn’t be a really foreign concept to you.
Do you consider sin (spiritual violence) to be nothing compared to physical violence? I’ll assume the answer is no. In that case it shouldn’t be hard for you to understand how emotional/mental violence can work the same way.
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Mycroft
Guest
am i the only one who thinks its really weird how much this is focusing on art? im not sure when art actually became relevant to sex…
J
jlw
Guest
OK…SO…we are here, we exist, with Gods “help” and you might say.
Ok…SO you are banking on the God of No Consequence. Your behavior or choices have no ultimate consequence (ie God doesn’t care, he had no real purpose for creating you, you have no objective purpose, there are not really any ultimate standards to be met for meeting any purpose for being here. You have you, and your opinions, and your experiences, and that’s it. When you die, you just die, and that’s it, no ultimate consequnces for your life choices, no reward or justice granted you based on your behavior.
I am banking on the God of Consequence. My behavior does matter beyond my feelings, my comforts, my experiences. I am banking on a reward for making good, better, or best choices, and having to account for my bad, worse, or worst choices based on a God Of Consequence.
NOW…If you are right in the end…you win. Actually you neither win or lose, but you certainly don’t lose. AND NEITHER DO I.
But…
If I am right in the end, I have fighting shot at a glorious reward (you do too) but you most assuredly put your money on a BAAAAAD bet…given the possible consequences and you may suffer unimaginably for the rest of time.
Where should we all put our smart money??
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Pro-Life_Teen
Guest
QUOTE: Let me put it this way: If I told you friendship was only for two people and that it was wrong to ever be friends with anyone else and you only got to pick one person to be firends with for the rest of your life would you do it? Probably not. You’d see immediately the huge loss you’d suffer from cutting yourself off from humanity that way and the incredible danger of having to make a lifetime commitment on limited information.
If the church said that friendship was between two, and only two people, of the opposite gender who had to live together, love each other and become one flesh with that person, then yes.
That is what marriage is. A sacred friendship between two people, who become one. They live together, love each other, and have sex. Have sex to have children and to strengthen their love.
I would never, ever vow to love a man forever and go have sex with his friends. Ever. That is the biggest lie I can think up at this time. You can’t vow to become one with a person and then go sleep around. Just like you can’t sleep around with someone you’re not one with.
I tell secrets to my friends. I trust them. I don’t tell secrets to people I don’t know, or barely know. Sex is a secret meant to be shared with one person, something no one else should know.
Keep your secrets.
If the church said that friendship was between two, and only two people, of the opposite gender who had to live together, love each other and become one flesh with that person, then yes.
That is what marriage is. A sacred friendship between two people, who become one. They live together, love each other, and have sex. Have sex to have children and to strengthen their love.
I would never, ever vow to love a man forever and go have sex with his friends. Ever. That is the biggest lie I can think up at this time. You can’t vow to become one with a person and then go sleep around. Just like you can’t sleep around with someone you’re not one with.
I tell secrets to my friends. I trust them. I don’t tell secrets to people I don’t know, or barely know. Sex is a secret meant to be shared with one person, something no one else should know.
Keep your secrets.
J
jlw
Guest
Because he doesn’t think humanity is all that consequential. As soon as sex is objectified (like art), it is no more consequential than buying a dress getting lunch at the drive-thru at a fast food restaurant.
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Mycroft
Guest
this is probably where he can never agree with us because hes not catholic so he wont think its immoral.
T
Tlaloc
Guest
Okay so you admit your position then is based on faith, not logic. That’s fine, I just want to be crystal clear about the difference. You do this because you have faith in the church. Period.
You most definitely can. Trust me on this as I have a wee bit more experience in this matter than you do. My partner is just that, my partner. That doesn’t mean she has to be my only lover. But it does mean she holds a special place in my heart above any other lovers.
Interesting that you tell your friends (plural) secrets but sex is a secret you think only can be “told” to one other. Seems your analogy is breaking down.
You indeed shouldn’t tell secrets to people you don’t know or trust, nor should sleep with them, whatever gave you the idea I advocated slepping with just anyone?
G
Genesis315
Guest
Pro-Life Teen,
Have you read Alice von Hildebrand’s “The Priviege of being a Woman”? Your posts remind me of the excerpts I have read (I have a friend who loves von Hildebrand and she is always emailing out excerpts to everyone, lol).
"When women are pure, men will respect, nay, venerate them; they will also hear the call challenging them to chastity."
As a guy, let me tell you this could not be more true. Keep up the great posts. It’s so impressive to see a youngster with such a firm grasp on the faith!
Have you read Alice von Hildebrand’s “The Priviege of being a Woman”? Your posts remind me of the excerpts I have read (I have a friend who loves von Hildebrand and she is always emailing out excerpts to everyone, lol).
"When women are pure, men will respect, nay, venerate them; they will also hear the call challenging them to chastity."
As a guy, let me tell you this could not be more true. Keep up the great posts. It’s so impressive to see a youngster with such a firm grasp on the faith!
M
Mac6yver
Guest
A muslim would tell you the same thing. They would tell you that their bet is better then yours.
I do not believe that once I die, I just die. I am not sure at all what happens, but that does not mean I think we are simply worm food. Of course I could be wrong about that as well.
S
Steve_Andersen
Guest
Pro-Life Teen,
Like I said before,
“They” arrest guys my age for talking to 15 years olds on the internet…about sex no less!
Just a little too “Jacko” for me
So I will choose not to respond to you
Not from any malice or snobbery
But because we are at different places in our lives so I’m not sure how to even begin to tell you what I’ve learned
It may sound hackneyed but the frustration of youth is wanting to learn and the frustration of age is want to teach (and NO I’m not talking about sex…I’m talking about life)
sigh, c’est le vive
This is a significant matter and as pointed out involves risks and responsibilities so it is something you must listen to you parents about for now and then make your own decisions when you are of age
Just remember that Tlalcos’ views are a little wacky
But then again Lisa N’s almost obsessive mentioning of STDs is also a little disturbing
There are nuts out there of all stripes on the forums
It sounds like you got a good head on your shoulders…just be careful
do your parents know you started a thread called sex?
Like I said before,
“They” arrest guys my age for talking to 15 years olds on the internet…about sex no less!
Just a little too “Jacko” for me
So I will choose not to respond to you
Not from any malice or snobbery
But because we are at different places in our lives so I’m not sure how to even begin to tell you what I’ve learned
It may sound hackneyed but the frustration of youth is wanting to learn and the frustration of age is want to teach (and NO I’m not talking about sex…I’m talking about life)
sigh, c’est le vive
This is a significant matter and as pointed out involves risks and responsibilities so it is something you must listen to you parents about for now and then make your own decisions when you are of age
Just remember that Tlalcos’ views are a little wacky
But then again Lisa N’s almost obsessive mentioning of STDs is also a little disturbing
There are nuts out there of all stripes on the forums
It sounds like you got a good head on your shoulders…just be careful
do your parents know you started a thread called sex?
M
m134e5
Guest
Sex is one of God’s greatest gifts to humanity. It is the greatest thing a person can give to another person. If you’ve had premarital sex- particularly if you don’t regret it, when you give it to your wife, you downplay it- your attitude is basically “hey, this is cool, try this” in a casual, noncaring way. If you have saved yourself for marriage, then you can say “this is something special- this is something I have saved for you- and only you”
P
Pro-Life_Teen
Guest
No. Comma.
It is because I have faith in the church, yes, but I find it common sense as well.
Yes, you do have more experience. You’ve had sex. I havn’t. I’m saving it while you’re giving it away.
My husband, my partner, my bond, my other self. Any of those are going to fit. He is, and does now, hold a place in my heart. Because I have something for him which he shall recieve on our wedding night, not a day before. And that something no one else shall have.
Ok, so I added an s. Make it friend then. A secret to tell one friend, your best friend. In the whole world, whom you shall be with forever, until you die.
Let me reword what I said. Not someone you don’t know, but only know a bit. Someone you havn’t spent time thinking about as a life-partner. I wouldn’t tell a secret to any of my friends, no. But I might tell my very best friend. The one I’ve known for a while and plan on knowing for years and years to come.
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Pro-Life_Teen
Guest
I havn’t actually. I’ll google it and look it up. Thanks!
J
jlw
Guest
But both the Muslim and I would say the same thing TO YOU.
We may theologically quibble, but both the Muslim and I are putting our money on a God of Consequence.
We have a fighting shot at a reward if we are right, lose nothing if we are wrong.
If you are right, you don’t lose, If you are wrong, you LOSE BIGTIME??
Still putting your money on that bet??
S
Steve_Andersen
Guest
Absolutely!
Amen!
It is definitely up there
Friendship, life long love and companionship, and support in troubled times are also up there but if you want sex at #1 who am I to argue?
I mean sex is great and everything but there are 23 other hours in the day
Well that’s a non sequitur if I ever heard one
I thought that it was the greatest gift
What makes you think it is suddenly casual and uncaring?
Why would you have sex with someone you are casual or uncaring about?
And more importantly why would you be married to such a person?
I suppose that could work too.
Based on my personal experience it wouldn’t be my first choice
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