sexual abuse by protestant ministers

[nhylan]

Actually, to be forgiven for your sins, you must promise not to do it again.

Your kidding yourself if you don’t think this is a compulsion for many people. They can’t stop themselves.

 

[Vasian]

www.silentlambs.org

 

[joe_clark]

A few observations

1. Hope you read the article on the sex scandal within Catholicism in the current Newsweek. It tries to acheive balance. A second piece, by George Weigel, also in the current Newsweek, does its best to defend the church, as Weigel always does.

 2. There is no doubt that sexual exploitation and/or misconduct is and has been a problem within Protestantism, also. Remember these differences, however. a) Most such problems have involved consenting adults - ministers with adult parishioners, often who came for counseling which led to a relationship. Such ministers, when exposed, usually have been tossed out immediately; b) in this area, at least, the worst cases seem to arise among 'ministers' who are not really ministers in that they have never been ordained by recognized denominations, have little formal education, set up shop in storefronts, and hide various forms of exploitation behind religion - hardly to be included among legitimate Protestant ministers; c) I know of no cases in which denominational officials have reassigned or recommended ministers who have behaved badly as sexual predators to other churches; d) in general Protestant churches are much more democratic, smaller congregations, and closely knit, providing sexual predators less opportunity to exploit and get away with it; and e) while denied by Weigel and others, I strongly believe that married clergy are less likely to exploit children and teenage boys. 

 3. Catholicism seems to have attracted a high percentage of gay clergy, which helps account for the exploitation of teen boys. Why? a) The Catholic priesthood attracts gays because no one will ask them why they're not married. b) Many gay priests believe and sincerely hope that being a priest will safeguard them from acting upon their sexual impulses. c) Many gay priests are attracted to an all-male fraternity, even when they fully intend to remain totally celibate. d) There are things in Catholicism - such as the vestments, the refined liturgy, etc. - that have a special appeal to gays, many of whom are appealed to by theatre, fashion, and such.

  Christians should be loving one another and not engaged in the sort of 'gotcha' dialogue that goes on and on here at CAF. "All have sinned...." and we need to let God be the ultimate judge. Meanwhile, if someone, priest or layman, violates the civil law, then we have other judges here on earth for that. The Catholic church's failure as a worldwide church lies with a hierarchy which has shown more interest in protecting the 'good name' of the church rather than show concern for the victims. Threatening victims, or even secretly paying them off, is outrageous. Protestantism does not have such a hierarchy, and offending clergy, therefore, have been provided no such protection. The notion that the issue in Catholicism is like that in Protestantism is false, though there is guilty to go around. 

  God bless the whole world - no exceptions.

Catholicism seems to have attracted a high percentage of gay clergy, which helps account for the exploitation of teen boys. Why? a) The Catholic priesthood attracts gays because no one will ask them why they’re not married. b) Many gay priests believe and sincerely hope that being a priest will safeguard them from acting upon their sexual impulses. c) Many gay priests are attracted to an all-male fraternity, even when they fully intend to remain totally celibate. d) There are things in Catholicism - such as the vestments, the refined liturgy, etc. - that have a special appeal to gays, many of whom are appealed to by theatre, fashion, and such.

The problem lies in that what you are describing is pedophilia not gay or not homosexual. Any adult sexually molesting a child say up to age 15 and prior is pedophila. Your confusing the reality that only priests who were gay or homosexual abused children and you would be very wrong to assume this. Pedophiles can be priests, rabbi’s, pastors, crossing guards, sports coaches, judges, policeman, nurses, teachers, pretzel salesman, ect. In the DSM… pedophiles are usually straight, married and assumed to be pillars of the community working in the community. According to the reports John Jay/Philadelphia Grand Jury reports… the majority of children molested started under age 15 and some were carried into adulthood. This is a pedophile by definition.

If a priest were an adult and with an 18 year old consenting adult, then you have an arguement for homosexuality and or gay, but an adult forcing themselves on a child…there’s no defense- it was a gay thing?

We can all see the spin to deflect away to protect themselves that if only we can get rid of the homo’s the children of the church would finally be safe, and this would be dead wrong. I have two children and if parents were to believe this, it would make them believe they can put their guard down and may put their children in danger.

 

[Roy5]

Joe Clark

My impression is that many, probably the large majority, of the offending priests have targeted boys, most of them 12-18, who have been altar boys, in youth groups, in parochial schools, etc. These priests have been gay, or possibly some were bisexual, but boys were more accessible. Certainly, many within the church (Donohue, for example) are making the charge that the problem is homosexuals in the priesthood.

This is not an attempt to denigrate gays on my part, by the way, but sexually exploiting minors is a crime, and gays or straights who do it are criminals. Their crimes were compounded when the hierarchy too often hid their crimes and some even were reassigned to other parishes, where they continued their pedatory behavior. 

 The sexual urge can overwhelm reason and even vows of celibacy in some people - those who cannot control their natural desires. Actually, teenage boys are a target of choice among some adult gays. I recall my hitchhiking days many years ago, when I was attending high school and then college far from home, and from time to time would be picked up by a gay. I soon learned how to identify them by the opening sentences of their conversation. They were looking for a willing sex partner and would find an excuse to drop me off after a few minutes, once I clearly indicated that I was not a viable target. I would tell them about my beloved girfriend, even if I didn't have one at the time. During my college days I could even speak of being engaged, even though I was not married until a few years later. I felt that these were lies approved by God as a form of self-protection. Agreed? Or, did I break the Ten Commandments by lying? Gosh, how some of those Old Testament folks (e. g., Abraham, Jacob, David, etc.) lied and how we honor them as Biblical heroes today!

   I'm sure there are many gay priests who keep their vows of celibacy, but others have not. A couple Protestant denominations, such as the United Church of Christ, permit the ordinations of gays, and the decision to employ them as ministers or not rests with the local parish. Most Protestant denominations will not ordain practicing homosexuals, still a hotly-debated issue among Methodists, Presbyterians and others. The Episcopalians, as everyone knows, have been involved in a major confrontation since electing a gay bishop in New Hampshire - and recently a second one, a lesbian out west somewhere (California?). 

  None of this changes the criminal nature of sexually exploiting minors by priests, ministers, rabbis, or anyone else, what his or her vocation.

  God bless the whole world - no exceptions.

 

[Hiskid1973]

Wow, that silent lamb website is an eye opener…There are six priest’s right around me…

 

[Zach82]

Dear Catholics,

Blaming gays, deflecting attention onto Protestants, blaming the victims, and generally acting like this all a public relations issue instead of an issue of justice is all atrocious and absurd. How you deal with these abuse cases reflects on all of us Christians. Please make an effort to deal with them better.

Sincerely,

Episcopalians

 

[twopekinguys]

Why don’t we get back on track with the thread.

This isn’t about the Catholic church and abusive priests, it is about the protestant ministers. I believe the OP was trying to demonstrate that the problem exists everywhere.

If you want to talk about the abuses in the Catholic church, why not go to one of those threads. God knows there are plenty of them.

There is abuse in any church, and it is wrong, period. But the fact remains that news coverage, and attention of the general public is more focused on one group (the Catholic Church), instead of looking at ALL groups.

Get the beam out of your eye people, the Catholic church isn’t the only one guilty in this, and I believe that is the point the OP was going for.

 

[twopekinguys]

Dear Catholics,

Blaming gays, deflecting attention onto Protestants, blaming the victims, and generally acting like this all a public relations issue instead of an issue of justice is all atrocious and absurd. How you deal with these abuse cases reflects on all of us Christians. Please make an effort to deal with them better.

Sincerely,

Episcopalians

Try reading this article before you cast stones.

news.zalkin.com/2010/02/episcopal-priest-accused-of-sexual-abuse-for-the-2nd-time.html

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

How did you see priests around you? All I saw on there were sex offenders’ locations, no mention of their job/career?

Wow, that silent lamb website is an eye opener…There are six priest’s right around me…

 

[Zach82]

Try reading this article before you cast stones.

news.zalkin.com/2010/02/episcopal-priest-accused-of-sexual-abuse-for-the-2nd-time.html

Thank you, Two, for precisely demonstrating the behavior I was talking about. If you had cared to read my post, you would have noticed that I am basically saying we Catholics and Episcopalians are in the same boat.

Yay, literacy!

Zach

 

[twopekinguys]

Thank you, Two, for precisely demonstrating the behavior I was talking about. If you had cared to read my post, you would have noticed that I am basically saying we Catholics and Episcopalians are in the same boat.

Yay, literacy!

Zach

Maybe you should re-read what you posted. (bolding mine)

Nowhere do you give any indication that you are talking about Episcopalians. Would you care to try again?

You are right though, literacy is your friend. Maybe you should try it, instead of being snarky.

Dear Catholics,
Blaming gays, deflecting attention onto Protestants, blaming the victims, and generally acting like this all a public relations issue instead of an issue of justice is all atrocious and absurd. How you deal with these abuse cases reflects on all of us Christians. Please make an effort to deal with them better.

Sincerely,

Episcopalians

 

[Zach82]

Nowhere do you give any indication that you are talking about Episcopalians. Would you care to try again?

… actually, I did. Is this some kind of joke?

Zach

 

[twopekinguys]

… actually, I did. Is this some kind of joke?

Zach

I was going to ask you the same thing.

Your post starts out with “Dear Catholics”. Doesn’t seem like you’re addressing Episcopalians there now does it?

Your comment “deflecting onto protestants” goes back to only addressing Catholics right?

“How you deal” again goes back to whom you addressed the post to, which was “Dear Catholics”.

Would you care to show me how your post was addressed to Episcopalians as well?

 

[Zach82]

Two, I am saying the the Catholic Church should really try to deal with these scandals better because these situation effect both Catholics and Episcopalians alike. You responded by screeching “Episcopalians diddle little boys too!” Which is precisely the poor reaction I was talking about.

Zach

 

[twopekinguys]

Two, I am saying the the Catholic Church should really try to deal with these scandals better because these situation effect both Catholics and Episcopalians alike. You responded by screeching “Episcopalians diddle little boys too!” Which is precisely the poor reaction I was talking about.

Zach

So when you come “screeching” on the scene telling Catholics to handle things better, that’s OK? Sorry, it doesn’t work that way. Especially when this thread isn’t about the Catholic abuses. Like I said before, if you want to talk about Catholic abuses, find one of those threads.

How the Catholic church does, or does not handle the abuses should in no way affect how the Episcopalian church handles theirs. Again, remove the beam from your eye before pointing out the splinter in someone elses.

I have also noticed that you cannot deny what I have proven. That being, your post was obviously directed at the Catholic Church, and not the Catholic AND Episcopalians as you would like us to believe.

 

[Hiskid1973]

How did you see priests around you? All I saw on there were sex offenders’ locations, no mention of their job/career?

One of the links down below after the sex offenders has a specific link for priest’s

bishop-accountability.org/priestdb/#map

 

[twopekinguys]

One of the links down below after the sex offenders has a specific link for priest’s

bishop-accountability.org/priestdb/#map

If you really want to get scared, just check your own state’s sex offender registry, and see how many sex offenders live close to you that are not clergy of any kind.

 

[Swan]

I’m sure someone has said this already but saying “others did it too” is a poor way to deal with this issue, IMO. It makes you sound overly defensive and looks like you’re trying to avoid responsibility. It makes your PR problem worse, not better. Especially since the RC claims to be “THE” church - shouldn’t you be held to a higher standard? I’m not trying to be rude here, this just seems so obvious to me. You are not doing yourselves any favors, especially as another story hits the news every day.

 

[Zach82]

So when you come “screeching” on the scene telling Catholics to handle things better, that’s OK? Sorry, it doesn’t work that way. Especially when this thread isn’t about the Catholic abuses. Like I said before, if you want to talk about Catholic abuses, find one of those threads.

How the Catholic church does, or does not handle the abuses should in no way affect how the Episcopalian church handles theirs. Again, remove the beam from your eye before pointing out the splinter in someone elses.

I have also noticed that you cannot deny what I have proven. That being, your post was obviously directed at the Catholic Church, and not the Catholic AND Episcopalians as you would like us to believe.

I am not trying to deny that there have been Protestant pedophiles because I wholly admit and decry its truth. I do, however, disagree with your assertion that what the Catholic Church does has nothing to do with us Episcopalians. It has much to do with us because we have far more in common than we have different. So far as the world is concerned, we are One Church under One Christ. While so many Protestants would try to use this situation to one up the Catholics, I will not do that. What sullies the credibility of the Catholic Church sullies the credibility of the Episcopal Church.

In that spirit, honestly, quit it with the finger pointing to the protestants. It just makes you look bad. Which makes us look bad. So stop it.

Zach

 

[Swan]

A few observations

 2. There is no doubt that sexual exploitation and/or misconduct is and has been a problem within Protestantism, also. Remember these differences, however. a) Most such problems have involved consenting adults - ministers with adult parishioners, often who came for counseling which led to a relationship. Such ministers, when exposed, usually have been tossed out immediately; b) in this area, at least, the worst cases seem to arise among 'ministers' who are not really ministers in that they have never been ordained by recognized denominations, have little formal education, set up shop in storefronts, and hide various forms of exploitation behind religion - hardly to be included among legitimate Protestant ministers; c) I know of no cases in which denominational officials have reassigned or recommended ministers who have behaved badly as sexual predators to other churches; d) in general Protestant churches are much more democratic, smaller congregations, and closely knit, providing sexual predators less opportunity to exploit and get away with it; and e) while denied by Weigel and others, I strongly believe that married clergy are less likely to exploit children and teenage boys.

These are excellent points. Tony Alamo comes to mind - hardly a mainstream Protestant preacher.