sexual abuse by protestant ministers

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I would not trust anything the Catholic League, headed by Bill Donohue, says about the sex abuse cases, after watching his insulting and belittling responses to the Irish abuse cases on YouTube. As far as I am concerned, he has totally discredited himself.
 
I would not trust anything the Catholic League, headed by Bill Donohue, says about the sex abuse cases, after watching his insulting and belittling responses to the Irish abuse cases on YouTube. As far as I am concerned, he has totally discredited himself.
The citations are only posted there for easy access. You would have known that if you had read the first part. The research was done by Jay College of Criminal Justice.

They’re one of the best 👍
 
They should encourage that priest to turn himself in to the authorities. I’d like to know your thoughts on this TEPO?
Should priests also call the police when someone they know admits to a crime in the confessional, or do you agree that the priests should cover that up…?
 
Should priests also call the police when someone they know admits to a crime in the confessional?
:eek:

Of course not. Confession is a matter between man and God not man and the State.
 

*Why do you assume I need education on the subject because I differ from you in my conclusion of the evidence? *
Knowingly defending sexual predators is not only malicious, it’s immoral. And don’t try the bearing false witness mumbo-jumbo. Trying to make an individual feel guilty for not supporting this garbage is socially irresponsible in itself. Give me a break.
What you are ssying is incorrect and could even be considered malicious. There is a social responsibility and law involved here. Knowingly writing misinformation about someone is bearing false witness it’s also against libel laws.

*It seems you sympathize with the priests and I sympathize more with the victims. You imply that a priest can’t get a fair hearing in all this. *
**How about the guilty ones? With your manner of thinking, it would be so blasted difficult to ever get at the truth that these monsters would have more crevices to hide in and rape and molest all the more. Nobody wants priests falsely accused. But here’s an idea–put them on administrative leave, investigate the matter rapidly and efficiently, take them AWAY from little children, and if found guilty, quickly dismiss and defrock, at bare minimum. But as you know, this has not been the norm in many cases. They’ve been dragged out, moved/relocated, allowed to continue being around kids in many cases, and more and more molestations take place. **
I sympathize with the innocent including clergy who have been falsely accused.
 
REPLY TO SUSAN MARY CONTINUED…

*Do you think it should’ve taken SEVEN years for that bum in Tucson, Arizona, to get defrocked? Ratzinger took that long and there is a paper trail of the molster’s bishop begging to laicize that crumb. *
**Well it’s my turn to be the educator here ;). The Rev. Michael Teta of Tucson, Arizona was a well-known and widely-accused molester in that diocese. His bishop begged then-cardinal Ratzinger to rapidly take this on and defrock this guy. Ratzinger leaves behind a paper trail with this guy and innaction. Ratzinger never responded or did anything with this guy for years. Then there was Msgr. Robert Trupia, another serious accused abuser. He was called “a major risk factor to the children, adolescents and adults that he many have contact with” by his bishop, Manuel Moreno. They investigated and found that Teta, the first child predator I mentioned, had been molesting kids there all the way back into the 1970’s! The Church tribunal there led the investigations. They said “there is almost a satanic quality in his mode of acting toward young men and boys.” According to a recent AP article:
*****"The tribunal referred Teta’s case, which included allegations that he abused boys in a confessional, to Ratzinger. The church considers cases of abuse in confessionals more serious than other molestations because they also defile the sacrament of penance.

It took 12 years from the time Ratzinger assumed control of the case in a signed letter until Teta was formally removed from ministry, a step only the Vatican can take…Teta was removed from ministry by the bishop, but because the church’s most severe punishment — laicization — can only be handed down from Rome, he remained on the church payroll and was working with young people outside the church…

This case has already gone on for seven years," Moreno wrote Ratzinger on April 28,1997 adding, “I make this plea to you to assist me in every way you can to expedite this case.”…It would be another seven years before Teta was laicized.

Now after Bishop Moreno retired, this thing kept going on. Gerald Kicanas became the new bishop when Moreno retired. Kicanas said:“My experience — and as I’ve looked at the records in our serious cases — the Vatican actually was prodding, through the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith and Cardinal Ratzinger, to try to get this case going,” **** **Of course, now Kicanas says that Ratzinger was always supportive, helpful, and sincerely wanted to make sure these cases were dealt with and that he was never dragging his heels, etc. But it does show that heels were dragged, this guy had a long history of molesting, both of those guys did, and nothing was done for years and years and years. People knew what was going on. That’s a matter of public record, and nothing was truly done. It took that many years to defrock this guy!? **

I’m not sure of what Tucson priest you’re talking about. You didn’t say. Instead I’ll talk about The allegation against Fr. Murphy of St. John’s School for the Deaf in Milwaukee. Father Murphy’s time there spanned 20 years, from 1955-1974, according to The Times’s article. The Vatican was informed of the problem in 1996, over 40 YEARS after the first allegations were made and over 20 years since the last abuse was reported. On page 15 of the New York Times the NYT admit that the Milwaukee Police Department opted not to pursue charges against Fr. Murphy. What does that tell you about the case? During the time of the actual abuse, the local dioceses did not discipline the priest, which was their total prerogative, nor did they inform the Vatican during this time. It was normal for these matters to be handled by the Archdiocese of the area where misconduct occurred. That didn’t change until 2001. It was not until then did Cardinal Ratzinger became aware of the extent of sexual misconduct. That was when Cardinal Ratzinger, in Italian, spoke of the need to get rid of the filth in the Church during his Good Friday mediation. Shortly afterward Cardinal Ratzinger became Pope Benedict XVI. One of the first acts the new pope did was to reopen sex abuses cases. That’s when the media started calling him “God’s Rottweiler” because he was so ferocious in his pursuit of justice in these cases. Now the media (and you) are saying he was part of the problem. You can’t have it both ways!
 
CONTINUED…

Why are you so quick to worry more about the priest and not believe the child? Why are we so worried about defending unborn life in our Church (which I absolutely am, 100% pro-life) but once a child is born and molested you seem to think more about the priest’s rights than the victim?
*No, you will not tolerate him being criticized in any way. Whether he’s wrong or right, you are unwilling to consider any guilt. **
I’m concerned about truth, accuracy and justice. I will not tolerate my pope being slandered.
*
And why do you say, “I don’t need a bunch of anti Catholic bigots overseeing anything in the Church?” What do you mean by that? Why is everyone who considers this handling and negligence an outrage supposedly anti-Catholic, bigoted, hate-mongers, and people trying to bring down the Catholic Church? Perhaps some Catholics, many in fact, find this stuff intolerable, want a better Catholic Church that is more efficient, more expedient, more cooperative, and more willing to do what is right? Where is the accountability? The Church periodically falls into scandal, sin, loses its direction morally with individual members (not saying the theology here) and it needs to be steered back on course. At the time of the Reformation the Church was full of corruption, individual sin, simony, sexual immorality, corrupt practices with indulgences, etc. They needed to clean house. Does that mean they needed to be toppled? Of course not…house needed to be cleaned. Perhaps with regard to how the Church treats children and violation sexually, we need to clean house and quit the knee-jerk defense and apologetics for their behavior. Defending the innocent is not selling out?


Once the cases are investigated it’s a police matter. Why would YOU trust secular media with the business of the Church? I’ve already demonstrated the falsehoods manufactured by the NYT and that’s not even the tip of the iceberg. Do you really think we’d still have legal abortion if the media printed the truth about what abortion really is? It is a social construct.
 
*Do you agree with all the multi-million dollar pay-outs to the families of these victims rather than just letting these priests be tried in a court of law like I would? *
Not buying that for a minute.
Settlements were kept quiet for the benefit of the victim not the abuser. Settlements are handled same way as Protestant denomination, Jewish etc in these matters. Nothing new here.

*Also, why and how do you assume the media is libelous in their coverage of this? *

It’s not an assumption of guilt. All the evidence is available. Much of it is organized for handy access here: socon.ca/or_bust/?p=5963

*Is there any sin or mistake you’ll actually hold the pope accountable for? *

The pope is not guilty of any crime. Nor has he made any mistakes. He is a great leader and a wonderful pope.

*Are you at the point where he is impeccable as well as infallible? I’m blown away at your post, Susan. I don’t care if the pope has said “we must rid ourselves of this filth.” What I care about are ACTIONS, not words. *

You are blown away by truth. This pope is all about ‘ACTION.’ I have given you a good start at learning the truth. Be careful not to bear false witness! Woe to you if you do!

*He’s said many things. John Paul II, my favorite pope of all time, said similar things and he moved Cardinal Law, that horrific cardinal that knowingly moved pedophiles around to prey on children, to Rome and gave him his own parish there. It was wrong then, it’s wrong now. *
**Do you know how arrogant it sounds to word things this way? You don’t have time to “educate” me now? Come on? Just disagree and state your case, no need to talk like the school master in a London preparatory school with me the unruly child. Come on. Cardinal Law knowingly moved Paul Shanley and John Geoghan, two pedophiles, and kept them active. He had allegation after allegation and there is a scary paper trail to that effect. Fifty priests signed a statement of no-confidence in Law. He became a parriah in the Boston area by many Catholics. It wasn’t CNN or Fox News’ fault that it happened. Law did it to himself. He covered up the truth. Fifty priests there were willing to display no confidence in him. So it’s not just pesky journalists out to get Law. Many of his own priests didn’t want him there. And many parents whose little boys were molested sexually weren’t keen on him either. Here are a few of the predators in the Boston Diocese:

John Birmingham**–accused for 23 years of molesting kids, finally was called on it bigtime by the mother of an altar boy at St. Ann’s, Cardinal Law in writing said he spoke with the priest, didn’t believe it could be true, kept him in good standing.

Paul Desilets/B]**indicted on 27 counts of indecent assault and battery **

Robert V. Gale was “treated” for abusing boys in 1987. Cardinal Law put him back at St. Monica’s parish despite knowing his horrific predatory urges, just months after Gale was back at the parish he was accused again of molesting a child there

John Geoghan** Had been a priest for 30 years and in six different parishes was accused of molesting 130 kids. The Church had to pay out tens of millions to the victims and it came out how his condition had been known for years and he had been shipped out to hide the problem. **

Paul Shanley****Already mentioned this guy

Robert A. Ward
** Records showed that back in 1995 they knew he was, as pastor at the time, using cocaine and addicted to it. In 1999 he admitted to downloading child pornography He got caught when a computer technician came over to repair his computer. He found the computer laced with it.**

You are misinformed about Cardinal Law there is much more to know but I don’t have to time to educate you now.

Why must we defend every action of the curia and vatican in order to remain good Catholics? *
** I don’t happen to know the truth, eh? Wow, that’s just outrageous. I guess you want to believe this stuff doesn’t happen. You go ahead and believe that. It’s a free country.
*
You should defend the truth. You just didn’t happen to know what the truth was. Not surprising with all the misinformation being throw about. If you want accurate news on all things Catholic use this site: lifesitenews.com/ it’s one of the best in the world and it’s free.
Fully informed is a relative phrase I suppose. I think you’re choosing to blame the media making them devils, convince yourself that there has been no negligence, that this doesn’t happen much, that millions of dollars have not been paid out, that many of the victims are just looking for $$$, and this is a media concoction. You also seem to be of the belief that, as Catholics, we must all defend the pope’s actions in any and all cases, whether he’s right or wrong, in order to be good Catholics. I choose to disagree deeply with your sentiment. At least we can agree on one thing I hope—Our Lord is Risen. Happy Easter 🙂
I have only given you a taste of the truth. It’s up to you to educate yourself. Use the sites I’ve given you. They are nicely organized and easy to use. Once you are fully informed do the right thing and defend your Holy Father.

We want to weed out the filth not the holy!
 
:eek:

Of course not. Confession is a matter between man and God not man and the State.
What about if a criminal comfessed in confession to murdering your child? Would you want the priest to call the police? What if this criminal confessed in confession that he raped your daughter? Would you want the priest to call the police? How much do you love your child? How much do you love your daughter?
 
Hey Rev
I noticed you live outside of Houston. You an Astros fan? My Giants had a great night tonight! 😛
What about if a criminal comfessed in confession to murdering your child? Would you want the priest to call the police? What if this criminal confessed in confession that he raped your daughter? Would you want the priest to call the police? How much do you love your child? How much do you love your daughter?
 

Susan Mary;6490208 said:
*Why do you assume I need education on the subject because I differ from you in my conclusion of the evidence? *
Knowingly defending sexual predators is not only malicious, it’s immoral. And don’t try the bearing false witness mumbo-jumbo. Trying to make an individual feel guilty for not supporting this garbage is socially irresponsible in itself. Give me a break.
What you are ssying is incorrect and could even be considered malicious. There is a social responsibility and law involved here. Knowingly writing misinformation about someone is bearing false witness it’s also against libel laws.

*It seems you sympathize with the priests and I sympathize more with the victims. You imply that a priest can’t get a fair hearing in all this. *
**How about the guilty ones? With your manner of thinking, it would be so blasted difficult to ever get at the truth that these monsters would have more crevices to hide in and rape and molest all the more. Nobody wants priests falsely accused. But here’s an idea–put them on administrative leave, investigate the matter rapidly and efficiently, take them AWAY from little children, and if found guilty, quickly dismiss and defrock, at bare minimum. But as you know, this has not been the norm in many cases. They’ve been dragged out, moved/relocated, allowed to continue being around kids in many cases, and more and more molestations take place. **
I sympathize with the innocent including clergy who have been falsely accused.

Your post is a little difficult to make out. I’ll do my best.

I never implied the guilty should go free. That’s not a solution.

I said the guilt should go where they deserved to go, jail. My beef is people blaming the pope when it’s clear the man is innocent.

The bishops were responsible for dealing with sexual misconduct and many of them have a lot to answers for. That parts true, but to properly understand what happened and what went wrong we must put thing in the perspective of the time of the crime. We didn’t have the Catholic Medical Association back then. It was born partly out of this mess. What we did have was the secular association giving us a lot of bad advice. When looking at the overview of sex misconduct we should consider all things . That’s why I suggest people read Dr. Judith Reisman article regarding the bad Alfred Kinsey style advice given to our bishops at the time. She is the one who suggested that our Bishops sue the experts. drjudithreisman.com/letters.html

I like her whole site. It’s very interesting stuff.
 
Nobody wants the innocent cast into the fire. I sure don’t. And I’m glad you see some of the culpability in these bishops. I also happen to think that then-Cardinal Ratzinger has a lot of explaining to do. I think he dragged his heels, I think the Church has tried to avoid scandal at the expense of kids, and it needs to repent. Hiding sins just doesn’t work as the Lord tells us that all sins committed in the dark will come to the light. I’m not an anti-papal nut. I just don’t like the way this was handled, I think Benedict blew it, and I was never one of those goof balls calling him a Rottweiler to begin with. I also hated all the morons who called him a Nazi because of his youth. I was very excited when he became pope. I have not, overall, liked his performance as pope. I’m very disappointed in it in many ways. But that’s just me. I don’t hate him, never wish him ill will, pray for him, hope he can get a grip on this scandal and clean house!!

God Bless you, Susan mary
gurneyhalleck1;6490633 said:
Your post is a little difficult to make out. I’ll do my best.

I never implied the guilty should go free. That’s not a solution.

I said the guilt should go where they deserved to go, jail. My beef is people blaming the pope when it’s clear the man is innocent.

The bishops were responsible for dealing with sexual misconduct and many of them have a lot to answers for. That parts true, but to properly understand what happened and what went wrong we must put thing in the perspective of the time of the crime. We didn’t have the Catholic Medical Association back then. It was born partly out of this mess. What we did have was the secular association giving us a lot of bad advice. When looking at the overview of sex misconduct we should consider all things . That’s why I suggest people read Dr. Judith Reisman article regarding the bad Alfred Kinsey style advice given to our bishops at the time. She is the one who suggested that our Bishops sue the experts. drjudithreisman.com/letters.html

I like her whole site. It’s very interesting stuff.
 
What about if a criminal comfessed in confession to murdering your child? Would you want the priest to call the police? What if this criminal confessed in confession that he raped your daughter? Would you want the priest to call the police? How much do you love your child? How much do you love your daughter?
If my child was murdered I would want the police to find the criminal. But, the confessional is not about worldly justice. Like I said before, it’s between man and God not man and the State.

The secular would would love to destroy the Holy Sacrament of Confession. We must not let that happen. The state doesn’t ask your doctor or lawyer to betray your trust why should that be any different for a priest.

Besides, how many criminals would tell a priest anything if they knew their confession would be betrayed? For that matter, how many non criminals would trust the confessional if they knew they would be betrayed?

The Church is in the world she is not of the world.
 
and again, the suffering of children is reduced to numbers, and these numbers are used to sling mud.

“look at how many the Protestants got! see? see?”

for every number there is an abused child.

that you guys would stoop so low and be so, so intent on defending your Church and her priests to use statistical representations of child sexual abuse by religious leaders to prove a point or shift emphasis is insane.

so instead of worrying about the kids abused by leaders within your own church, or setting up a thread where these survivors (from any church) can be prayed for, a natural response is to start a thread exposing Baptist child abuse. nice.
 
and again, the suffering of children is reduced to numbers, and these numbers are used to sling mud.

“look at how many the Protestants got! see? see?”

for every number there is an abused child.

that you guys would stoop so low and be so, so intent on defending your Church and her priests to use statistical representations of child sexual abuse by religious leaders to prove a point or shift emphasis is insane.

so instead of worrying about the kids abused by leaders within your own church, or setting up a thread where these survivors (from any church) can be prayed for, a natural response is to start a thread exposing Baptist child abuse. nice.
What are you raging about? A statistic is a statistic. The John Jay College is a research group. They aren’t a religious anything.

You should consider this a blessing. The Catholic Church was hit first that means the Protestant denomination have something to follow. You know, learn from our mistakes.

There is another John Jay College of Criminal Justice research report due out latter this year on pastor sexual misconduct. It was funded by the Episcopal Church and Center for Sexual Well-Being. It is studing abuses within Episcopalians, Lutherans and Presbyterians religions.
 
i don’t consider it a blessing when children are abused in any church. whether Catholic or Protestant.

i don’t cheer when the Catholic Church is stoned by the media. i weep and get irritated on behalf of the kids.

i would hope that would be a normal reaction for anyone reading such news.
 
i don’t consider it a blessing when children are abused in any church. whether Catholic or Protestant.

i don’t cheer when the Catholic Church is stoned by the media. i weep and get irritated on behalf of the kids.

i would hope that would be a normal reaction for anyone reading such news.
That’s not what I said.

I said you should be grateful of the blessing that there is a course to follow. The Catholic Church is acting as a leader against sexual misconduct. All others, whether Protestant, Jewish, Mormon et al have a course to follow.

Sexual predators are everywhere and they have to be rooted out.

Of course that will still leave the school system. Did you read the staticis on teacher sexual misconduct? They say it is 100 times worse. I don’t know how we’re going to help those young people.
 
If my child was murdered I would want the police to find the criminal. But, the confessional is not about worldly justice. Like I said before, it’s between man and God not man and the State.

The secular would would love to destroy the Holy Sacrament of Confession. We must not let that happen. The state doesn’t ask your doctor or lawyer to betray your trust why should that be any different for a priest.

Besides, how many criminals would tell a priest anything if they knew their confession would be betrayed? For that matter, how many non criminals would trust the confessional if they knew they would be betrayed?

The Church is in the world she is not of the world.
You would want the priest to let them go to do it to others. Its one thing to confess that you said a bad word, you stold something, stuff like that I say no they should not, but when it comes to murdering someone eles or raping someone eles. A crime like that, yes how could they let that go. That would be betraying not only the person it happened to but also betraying others that it would happen to. So you would rather not betray the murderer or rapist but you would rather betray the victim. Would you tell the victim if you were a priest that I know who raped you but that is between God and the rapist? Could you do that to their face. Could you live with yourself knowing that you would allow this preson to do it to others?
 
That’s not what I said.

I said you should be grateful of the blessing that there is a course to follow. The Catholic Church is acting as a leader against sexual misconduct. All others, whether Protestant, Jewish, Mormon et al have a course to follow.

Sexual predators are everywhere and they have to be rooted out.

Of course that will still leave the school system. Did you read the staticis on teacher sexual misconduct? They say it is 100 times worse. I don’t know how we’re going to help those young people.
You won’t if they confess it to a priest in confession. There is no helping then.
 
You would want the priest to let them go to do it to others. Its one thing to confess that you said a bad word, you stold something, stuff like that I say no they should not, but when it comes to murdering someone eles or raping someone eles. A crime like that, yes how could they let that go. That would be betraying not only the person it happened to but also betraying others that it would happen to. So you would rather not betray the murderer or rapist but you would rather betray the victim. Would you tell the victim if you were a priest that I know who raped you but that is between God and the rapist? Could you do that to their face. Could you live with yourself knowing that you would allow this preson to do it to others?
I would not destroy a Holy Sacrament for man.

I don’t think you understand Sacraments.

This link is about confession, read it first then ask your questions. catholic.com/library/Forgiveness_of_Sins.asp
 
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