Sexual Denial, and Sin

[Salonika]

Dear Cairone

Thank you very much for your posts. I think all of us need to read them, especially if we think that we are remaining in a situation (work, marriage, other relationship) “because of fear, not out of any great consideration or love.”

Also good to be reminded that we may think we are called to do something (like in Mr Estimable’s case to bring his wife back into the church) without thinking that our efforts may have the opposite effect.

And finally, that there are times we cannot meet other people’s needs whatever we do.

Regards

Salonika

 

[mrpathetic]

While many flirt with and struggle with narcissism, you seem to struggle greatly with the appreciation that you are a human being worthy of dignity. This apparent lack of self-love might also be a factor trapping you in a situation you should leave from.

Truth be told, Cairone, I think you hit the nail on the head with this one. **To be 100% honest, I disgust myself. **Sarte said that “Hell is other people”; I would counter to him, “Hell is myself”. I realize despise myself, for myriad of flaws and inadequacies. I have deep, deep problems with self-esteem and self-worth. My marital situation makes the situation worse, because I question my worth as a husband and father. Obviously, this is something I need to remedy.

The second thing to pray about is whether or not you are meant to draw your wife back to the Church. It maybe that the best way to help your wife is to leave her and let her indulge herself in the greatest excesses of sin. Some people will not realize the error of their ways until all the safeties, all the supports that propped up their sins, are stripped away and they hit rock bottom.

Well, that is one strategy. But I think you have to admit, Cairone, that** this strategy is a big, big gamble**. It could backfire terribly. Sometimes people hit rock bottom, and never get out.

I really think that this was the strategy that my mother wanted to employ, when she divorced my father. It didn’t have the desired effect. My father sink deeper and deeper into alcoholism, until it eventually claimed his life. He committed suicide.

This is something I will need to consider. But this will be taking a huge risk, and I would only try it, if I felt there was no other alternative.

I really do appreciate this feedback, Cairone, and the help of everyone else. May the Lord bless you.

 

[mrpathetic]

Your wife’s descripion of you a “cold fish” and yours of yourself as a very boring person, rigid, doctrinaire, unyielding, stubborn may or not be curently true. But is that the real you?

Yes, that me.

I sometimes use characters from popular culture, to describe myself to others that I meet online. The character that best depicts me, in my current state of life, is **Tevya, the father from “Fiddler on the Roof”. **(No, I am not Jewish. I guess I am the Catholic version of Tevya.) Tevya was stubborn, hard-headed, rigid, dogmatic, generally unpleasant - and oblivious to what was taking place around him. So am I.

============================================

Why am I this way? Well, the obvious answer is, “God made me this way”. The secularist answer would be not so simple:

1. 
   *]I was raised in a grossly dysfunctional environment, with an negligent, alcoholic father, and controlling, dominating, co-dependent mother. So I erected numerous ego defence mechanisms, to help me cope with my circumstances.
   *]This, in time, generated a patholigical fear of both intimacy and rejection, which made any type of affectionate relationship nearly impossible. (This explains much of the marital failure - at least my part of it.)
   *]I developed deep-seeded neuroses, which created a gross fear of change, and of the outside world. This transformed into a deep distrust of others.
   *]My id is badly repressed, due to countless layers of shame and guilt. Hence, my adult personality is boring, rigid, and very introvertive.
   *]I developed very poor social interraction skills, particularly with women. Hence, he married a very poor choice - a woman with many of the same character flaws as his mother.
   
   Yes, my psychoanalyst has been earning his pay.
   
   =========================================
   
   Now you know the reason for much of the self-loathing. I am no Prince Charming.
   
   So where do I go from here? I try to fix many of my problems. And hold on to my marriage, family, and Catholic faith. No easy task.
   
   I will appreciate everyone’s support, as I try to fix this “garbage dump” of a mentality, and a life.

 

[whatevergirl]

Truth be told, Cairone, I think you hit the nail on the head with this one. **To be 100% honest, I disgust myself. **Sarte said that “Hell is other people”; I would counter to him, “Hell is myself”. I realize despise myself, for myriad of flaws and inadequacies. I have deep, deep problems with self-esteem and self-worth. My marital situation makes the situation worse, because I question my worth as a husband and father. Obviously, this is something I need to remedy.

Well, that is one strategy. But I think you have to admit, Cairone, that** this strategy is a big, big gamble**. It could backfire terribly. Sometimes people hit rock bottom, and never get out.

I really think that this was the strategy that my mother wanted to employ, when she divorced my father. It didn’t have the desired effect. My father sink deeper and deeper into alcoholism, until it eventually claimed his life. He committed suicide.

This is something I will need to consider. But this will be taking a huge risk, and I would only try it, if I felt there was no other alternative.

I really do appreciate this feedback, Cairone, and the help of everyone else. May the Lord bless you.

This thread is really interesting, and I have learned a lot, myself. Could it be too that you fear mirroring what your parents went through…you see divorce as such a terrible ordeal, that even in the position you’re in, as Caroine states, staying in your comfort zone, might be easier than moving on? Divorce is not God’s chosen path for us…I believe that it should always be a very last resort, but really, I think if one is verbally or physically abused…it can be life saving for him/her. Just reading about your parents’ divorce makes me wonder if that experience is so engrained in you, that you are fearful of that very thing happening to you.

 

[mrpathetic]

This thread is really interesting, and I have learned a lot, myself. Could it be too that you fear mirroring what your parents went through…you see divorce as such a terrible ordeal, that even in the position you’re in, as Caroine states, staying in your comfort zone, might be easier than moving on?

*To be honest, I think I fear failure more than I fear divorce. *

No, I don’t want to become just another divorce statistic. Hence, I did promise myself I would never divorce.** Ever. **

But what I really fear is failure, in all aspects of life - not just in relationships, but in every aspect of my existence. This is why I set sky-high expectations for myself, and my family, which can probably never be met. It drives my family nuts.

=========================================

My mother expected perfection of her only son (me.) She demanded perfection, in every aspect of my life - especially academics, and personal conduct. Above all, I could not be allowed to fail, else I would end up a loser and a drunkard, like her husband. I truly began to hate and despise my father, at this point in time.

(So I expect nothing less than perfection of my children. It has badly damaged my relationship with them - and particularly, with my daughter, who has had academic problems in the past.)

==========================================

I once got a D on calculus exam in college. It was a tough exam, in a tough course - and math was not my best subject.

How did I respond? I made 100 copies of the exam, and wrote the word “Failure” on them, in big red letters, with my Magic Marker. I then pasted them all across my dormitory room.

Boy, my roommates were in for shock, when they walked in! The room looked like something from a Salvador Dali painting.

===========================================

Divorce would just be another disappointment, another failure, another letdown. I simply cannot live up to the stratospheric expectations that I set for myself, and those around me.

I refuse to fail, out of the hatred that I still hold for my father, and a neutotic need to continue to satisfy my mother - both of whom are long-since dead. I need to break free from this cycle, before it destroys another generation of my family.

 

[whatevergirl]

*To be honest, I think I fear failure more than I fear divorce. *

No, I don’t want to become just another divorce statistic. Hence, I did promise myself I would never divorce.** Ever. **

But what I really fear is failure, in all aspects of life - not just in relationships, but in every aspect of my existence. This is why I set sky-high expectations for myself, and my family, which can probably never be met. It drives my family nuts.

=========================================

My mother expected perfection of her only son (me.) She demanded perfection, in every aspect of my life - especially academics, and personal conduct. Above all, I could not be allowed to fail, else I would end up a loser and a drunkard, like her husband. I truly began to hate and despise my father, at this point in time.

(So I expect nothing less than perfection of my children. It has badly damaged my relationship with them - and particularly, with my daughter, who has had academic problems in the past.)

==========================================

I once got a D on calculus exam in college. It was a tough exam, in a tough course - and math was not my best subject.

How did I respond? I made 100 copies of the exam, and wrote the word “Failure” on them, in big red letters, with my Magic Marker. I then pasted them all across my dormitory room.

Boy, my roommates were in for shock, when they walked in! The room looked like something from a Salvador Dali painting.

===========================================

Divorce would just be another disappointment, another failure, another letdown. I simply cannot live up to the stratospheric expectations that I set for myself, and those around me.

I refuse to fail, out of the hatred that I still hold for my father, and a neutotic need to continue to satisfy my mother - both of whom are long-since dead. I need to break free from this cycle, before it destroys another generation of my family.

I see…yes it seems that there is a lot more at play here, than you wanting to hold onto your marriage. Not that you don’t. Just seems that your fears arew controlling your life, more than anything. I used to live in fear, too. I think we can all attest to our own version of fear in our lives. I lost my parents as a young child, for me, my husband represented another person I could love and lose. My dh and I were on the verge of divorce many years ago, and thankfully, through prayer, we recommitted to one another. I look back, and might have thought the same…somehow it was me who failed. I understand your need for perfection. I’m sorry though that you have been through a difficult childhood and marriage. I hope that you find true peace in this life…truly, that is what God’s ultimate will is for you, mr p.

 

[happymommy]

That’s it right there my friend!! You need to stop before it destroys another generation!! Do you want your kids to think about you the way you do your father? I’m guessing, NO!
You only have one Father you need to please and that is God and he loves you very much and does not see you as pathetic!! You have a chance to change, to make a better relationship with your kids while you still can. Do it! Stop beating yourself up over things your parents did wrong! If your wife thinks you are boring, show her your not. Your kids want to have fun with you, go do it. Don’t waste this gift God has given you. You marriage may not make it, in my opinion it’s not going to because you wife is selfish, but you will always be your kid’s daddy! That will never change! Do you want them to be typing and asking for help on some forum someday, complaining about their dad? Asking for marriage advice because all they have seen is a very unhealthy marriage?
Please pray about this. You don’t have to be the one to file for divorce, but I believe with all my heart that God has so much more planned for you, so many more blessings to give you, if you just let him do it!!
You will be in my prayers and so will your family!!

 

[Michael_Neal]

I think you have gotten yourself so emotionally wrapped up in this dilemma that you are afraid of ending your marriage simply because the drama will stop and you will have nothing else to do.

Please heed the advice you are getting from your priest and therapist.

I think you may be committing a sin staying in this situation because you are being self indulgent in your sorrow. You are also preventing yourself from reaching your potential as a Christian in this world by remaining a hostage to this woman.

I mean no disrespect, it just seems like one of those situations where someone needs to slap some sense into a person. There have been many times in my life that I wish someone had smacked me too.

 

[Rose71]

You are in a real muddle! The description you give of your wife and of your own problems leaves me with a rather strong impression that you are very, very competitive and if you can’t have the best marriage in the world - you are going to claim to have the worst - in fact, you have the most awful, difficult, testing life and it is all down to your faith, because nobody tries harder than you to live a good Christian life.

I sincerely applaud your commitment to your faith and to your family. You are obviously a very thoughtful and devout person and you are living under very unfortunate circumstances. However, is despair not a sin? Is it not possible that in your quest to seek the meaning behind your life, you have stopped loving yourself because you have turned yourself into an intellectual problem and thereby robbed yourself of your own humanity?

You seem to be insisting that your ‘cold fish’ persona is partly the cause of your wife’s awful behaviour. That is like saying you are responsible again - you like control - you can’t accept that some things are outside your control: so where does this really leave your relationship with an omnipotent being who can defy science and perform miracles?

Start being less harsh on yourself and stop showing off about how controlling you are It is really not healthy! Accept that you can’t control every aspect of your life and focus your energies on making positive changes where you can. If that means a separation, then do it! If not, not!

I can’t remmeber who said it - might have been Thomas Aquinas, but what about praying to be ‘conqueror of myself, friend of God, lord of the World and heir to Heaven’ (in THAT order:thumbsup: )

 

[Galnextdoor]

*To be honest, I think I fear failure more than I fear divorce. *

No, I don’t want to become just another divorce statistic. Hence, I did promise myself I would never divorce.** Ever. **

But what I really fear is failure, in all aspects of life - not just in relationships, but in every aspect of my existence. This is why I set sky-high expectations for myself, and my family, which can probably never be met. It drives my family nuts.

=========================================

My mother expected perfection of her only son (me.) She demanded perfection, in every aspect of my life - especially academics, and personal conduct. Above all, I could not be allowed to fail, else I would end up a loser and a drunkard, like her husband. I truly began to hate and despise my father, at this point in time.

(So I expect nothing less than perfection of my children. It has badly damaged my relationship with them - and particularly, with my daughter, who has had academic problems in the past.)
It’s never too late to start over with your children. Have you ever told your daughter that you are sorry for being so demanding academically? Honesty goes a long way towards healing.​

I once got a D on calculus exam in college. It was a tough exam, in a tough course - and math was not my best subject.

How did I respond? I made 100 copies of the exam, and wrote the word “Failure” on them, in big red letters, with my Magic Marker. I then pasted them all across my dormitory room.

Boy, my roommates were in for shock, when they walked in! The room looked like something from a Salvador Dali painting.
Would you have done this to someone else?If not, then why should you treat yourself this way?​

Divorce would just be another disappointment, another failure, another letdown. I simply cannot live up to the stratospheric expectations that I set for myself, and those around me.

I refuse to fail, out of the hatred that I still hold for my father, and a neutotic need to continue to satisfy my mother - both of whom are long-since dead. I need to break free from this cycle, before it destroys another generation of my family.

I know there are people who are quick to judge those who have been divorced. I hear it all the time. Instead of looking at a divorce as the ultimate failure, forgive yourself for making the wrong choice when you got married. Here is an idea you might think about.
You had a fear of turning out like your father. You’re father was viewed as a weak man by your mother.
You tried to break the cycle by not drinking and not becoming the man your father was. Where you made your mistake was subconsciously putting yourself in a similar marital relationship and trying to make it come out alright. My guess is that your wife treats you the same way your mother treated your father. Your father, not being as strong as you, turned to alcohol for a false sense of self-courage. Kudos to you for not doing the same!!!

I would guess that you have a personality that is similar to your father’s. Don’t hate yourself for it. Don’t look at yourself through your mother’s eyes. Don’t listen to your wife, the abuser who took your mothers place. You keep going to the well for love, but the well was empty in those two women. No matter how many times you approach the well, it’s still going to be empty.

You need to replace their critical and demeaning voices in your head with the voice of someone you admire. Someone who is not vicious. Some one who would not call you a loser or failure, but would encourage you if you made a D.
Your relationship dynamics are basically the same as your parents. The relationship didn’t work for them, and it is highly unlikely that it will work for you. I hope you forgive my amateur phsyco analysis. I’ll keep praying for you.

 

[whatevergirl]

I know there are people who are quick to judge those who have been divorced. I hear it all the time. Instead of looking at a divorce as the ultimate failure, forgive yourself for making the wrong choice when you got married. Here is an idea you might think about.
You had a fear of turning out like your father. You’re father was viewed as a weak man by your mother.
You tried to break the cycle by not drinking and not becoming the man your father was. Where you made your mistake was subconsciously putting yourself in a similar marital relationship and trying to make it come out alright. My guess is that your wife treats you the same way your mother treated your father. Your father, not being as strong as you, turned to alcohol for a false sense of self-courage. Kudos to you for not doing the same!!!

I would guess that you have a personality that is similar to your father’s. Don’t hate yourself for it. Don’t look at yourself through your mother’s eyes. Don’t listen to your wife, the abuser who took your mothers place. You keep going to the well for love, but the well was empty in those two women. No matter how many times you approach the well, it’s still going to be empty.

You need to replace their critical and demeaning voices in your head with the voice of someone you admire. Someone who is not vicious. Some one who would not call you a loser or failure, but would encourage you if you made a D.
Your relationship dynamics are basically the same as your parents. The relationship didn’t work for them, and it is highly unlikely that it will work for you. I hope you forgive my amateur phsyco analysis. I’ll keep praying for you.

Your post really moved me…I somewhat agree. We don’t “know” you mr p, other than what you post here, but be kind to yourself. Or kinder, I should say. Love yourself and see yourself as God does. I’ll keep praying for you and your wife.

 

[Salonika]

Salonika:

Your wife’s descripion of you a “cold fish” and yours of yourself as a very boring person, rigid, doctrinaire, unyielding, stubborn may or not be curently true. But is that the real you?

Mr Estimable in reply:

Yes, that me.

Yes, it may be you now. But is it what you would have been if you had been brought up in a healthier family and had a happier marriage. I suspect not.

Once we realise the impact that such factors had on us, we can decide whether we want them to continue to do so and think what qualities have we have lost as a result.

And don’t underestimate the amount of time and effort than goes into trying to be perfect and how this effort actually sabotages your efforts.

 

[rober_usa]

Like many others, I have been really moved by these posts.

I just joined today and came to this my first string and read all posts (couldn’t put the computer down).

You’re an inspiration Mr. Estimable. I believe you’re spirituality, wisdom, mental and emotional health have grown immensely since the first post. You said you’ve been praying for the past six months. Amen! I think that God is definately working with you, brother. Prayer is the first step and I pray you will keep praying each day.

It seems to me (NOT a pro) that, adding to Whatevergirl, you fear creating the same result as your father, not just in the divorce or the alcoholism and drugs, but also the the spiraling downward out of control to the point of ending his own life. Well, he is not you; you are not him. You certainly have control (you’re a Saint as someone said - I would’ve been so much worse, I’m learning from you), not on drugs, not spiraling, sad/depressed yes (was stated I believe), however, you’re rational, trying several options, seeing therapist, deacon, medical pro’s, advice, praying, working, paying your bills, etc. - your on the move, not go going downward.

And, that this may be the real fear behind your understanding, from prayer, that divorce is unacceptable in any case, let alone yours. And, further still, resulting in the Godly respsonibilities of you as a father to provide for the spiritual and emotional development and well-being of his children being (largely) abandoned.

I haven’t read anything about you having forgiven your parents, or praying for the ability to fully forgive them. Have you done this? It might be so much easier to receive God’s will after forgiving each of your parents, and yourself (as someone mentioned).

By the way, I agree with everyone that your wife has chosen, rather forcefully and very sadly, to leave the Church. Praying for her return and her soul is sometimes the only thing one can do. We can’t force or change anyone.

I don’t now what God’s will is in your case, nor mine. However, I was moved to read yours and your fellow Christians words and moved to write to you.

I only wish you Joy and Peace as God desires for you!, even as you and all His children are called to suffer and sacrifice in Christ when called to (you may not be being called to here, perhaps be open to that in prayer). You are in my prayers, and God bless you.

 

[mdr]

OP, you have so much healing to do! May God bless you as you dig your way out of the decades of pain and humiliation toward wholeness. The damage didn’t happen overnight, and neither will the repairs, but every step makes a difference. You’ve already come a long way.

One thing I struggle with that may also trouble you is humility vs. pride vs. self-denigrating. I was taught that true humility is seeing oneself clearly, neither overestimating nor underestimating oneself. In so many ways, it’s easier to avoid overestimating than underestimating! We are so well-schooled at avoiding sinful pride that we are afraid to acknowledge what’s good about ourselves. It can be hard sometimes to see the difference between recognizing one’s talents and skills - so that one can put them to use in service of God - and puffing up one’s ego about those same talents and skills. Maybe this isn’t a problem for you, but I thought I’d mention it FWIW.

(Ya know, I never thought old Tevye was all that rigid - he tried, really, and adapted pretty well to everything except the daughter who wanted to abandon his faith. Guess I can sympathize with that. I kinda liked his attitude to the everyday troubles in his life. Yeah, so he kvetched a little, but only to the Almighty and even then with a grain of humor. Could be a lot worse.)

So you came from a painfully difficult and dysfunctional upbringing to marry into a disturbed and dysfunctional family of in-laws - hardly surprising. We seem to be wired to repeat the patterns we grew up within. (The “sins of the fathers” bit isn’t that God is being mean, IMO; it’s just how people work, and with determination and hard work the children or children’s children can break the cycle. Your own efforts and good results show that.)

Your strength has been in your superhuman determination to stay with the principles you really value and is also in your very courageous efforts to change and overcome all those destructive forces.

Baby steps, baby steps! Please don’t lose heart if you don’t see an instant miracle - look back over this thread and see how far you’ve come already, and know that each step you take is valuable.

It’s clear that you follow your own conscience and really work hard to make sure your conscience is properly formed; the only thing I’d presume to warn you about is that people who suffer from perfectionism seem to be prone to scrupulosity, so it would be really prudent to do reality checks with your confessor every so often. Just a thought.

Keep your chin up (in courage) and your knees bent (in prayer, of course! )

Peace-
-mdr

P.S. Is it St. Bernard of Clairvaux who is patron of dispelling evil influences? I’ll have to look that up - there was one saint that I’d read several anecdotes about along those lines. Hey, it couldn’t hurt to have his intercession anyway! There’s St. Rita of Cascia, too; even though you’re in the opposite situation, she can surely relate to your pain. And let’s not forget St. Jude, either! You have lots of friends in your corner.

 

[mesurman]

Yes, that me.

I sometimes use characters from popular culture, to describe myself to others that I meet online. The character that best depicts me, in my current state of life, is **Tevya, the father from “Fiddler on the Roof”. **(No, I am not Jewish. I guess I am the Catholic version of Tevya.) Tevya was stubborn, hard-headed, rigid, dogmatic, generally unpleasant - and oblivious to what was taking place around him. So am I.

============================================

Why am I this way? Well, the obvious answer is, “God made me this way”. The secularist answer would be not so simple:

1. 
   *]I was raised in a grossly dysfunctional environment, with an negligent, alcoholic father, and controlling, dominating, co-dependent mother. So I erected numerous ego defence mechanisms, to help me cope with my circumstances.
   *]This, in time, generated a patholigical fear of both intimacy and rejection, which made any type of affectionate relationship nearly impossible. (This explains much of the marital failure - at least my part of it.)
   *]I developed deep-seeded neuroses, which created a gross fear of change, and of the outside world. This transformed into a deep distrust of others.
   *]My id is badly repressed, due to countless layers of shame and guilt. Hence, my adult personality is boring, rigid, and very introvertive.
   *]I developed very poor social interraction skills, particularly with women. Hence, he married a very poor choice - a woman with many of the same character flaws as his mother.
   
   Yes, my psychoanalyst has been earning his pay.
   
   =========================================
   
   Now you know the reason for much of the self-loathing. I am no Prince Charming.
   
   So where do I go from here? I try to fix many of my problems. And hold on to my marriage, family, and Catholic faith. No easy task.
   
   I will appreciate everyone’s support, as I try to fix this “garbage dump” of a mentality, and a life.

1. 
   Mr. Pathetic,
   
   Change your name. Pick yourself up.
   
   I lived a parallel life, Extremely dysfuntional family, Alcoholic/ Prescription Drug addicted mother for my entire childhood. Workaholic ex-career marine Dad who enabled but was frustrated at the same time. (they married and divoreced twice) I was sexually abused by “friends” of the family and direct family (siblings). I struggle daily with many things. On top of all that on I am ADD. I have a lot going on in my brain. But I am a man who has had to pick himself up and dust himself off due to necessity. I have six children and am self empoyed I have to for them, I do fail at times but I still have to grind it out. By the Grace of God I am still alive and trying to be a better man with his help. But you need to pick up your self image and assert your manhood and take your marriage back in a manly way, not brutish, but manly: loving, caring, assertive and protective. When you make the first step and assert yourself you will begin the process of change. Pray to St. Joseph. He has been so good to me and my family I cannot begin to count the blessings I/We have received. Please stop the self loathing. Until you do your wife won’t either. Pray and act. Act and pray.

 

[GerlyOne]

Gentleman: (I refer to you as such because you truly are one)

Anyone who has been able to endure such horrible abuse from their spouse deserves kindness, respect, and admiration. You are truly a good man and I hope that you will stop feeling as if you are worthless.

Your wife sounds very, very lost and far removed from GOD, by her own doing. You have already been given such wonderful advice by so many members so I will just say that, you should do daily novenas to our Queen of Peace and to St. Jude…

Prayer is the only solution and GOD hears everything you say and knows everything you’re going through and feeling. May GOD bless you and I hope that you will end up with a resolution that you so deserve…HAPPINESS, TRANQUILITY, AND MUCH, MUCH LOVE AND AFFECTION!

 

[materdequint]

Original Poster,

I agree for the most part with your understanding of the catechism saying divorce is a sin. I agree with you not wanting to divorce and preferring to let your wife commit the sin by divorcing you.

However, I do not think it is a sin to put your foot down about something - like finances- even though you think it may lead to a divorce. You can offer to discuss it - make a budget first, etc and then if she is unreasonable you can close accounts.

I used to have your attitude, I would cave into unreasonable demands just to preserve the marriage. I thought if I put my foot down it would end in divorce. Guess what? It didn’t - he was bluffing a bit, because threatening divorce worked. You would still be an innocent victim if your wife chose to unreasonably divorce you. Plus - you don’t really know if she would divorce you if you reined in the finances. What if she made some other unreasonable demand - like dye your hair pink or I will divorce you, quit your job or I will divorce you, quit going to Mass, quit eating breakfast, whatever? You are only morally culpable for the breakdown of a marriage if you are being unreasonable.

Edited to add: In my case, putting my foot down led to some more maturity in my husband in the long haul. By spoiling your wife you are paving her path to Hell. Help her grow in virtue by at least cutting off the funds if she refuses to help you be responsible with a budget.

 

[whatevergirl]

Original Poster,

I agree for the most part with your understanding of the catechism saying divorce is a sin. I agree with you not wanting to divorce and preferring to let your wife commit the sin by divorcing you.

However, I do not think it is a sin to put your foot down about something - like finances- even though you think it may lead to a divorce. You can offer to discuss it - make a budget first, etc and then if she is unreasonable you can close accounts.

I used to have your attitude, I would cave into unreasonable demands just to preserve the marriage. I thought if I put my foot down it would end in divorce. Guess what? It didn’t - he was bluffing a bit, because threatening divorce worked. You would still be an innocent victim if your wife chose to unreasonably divorce you. Plus - you don’t really know if she would divorce you if you reined in the finances. What if she made some other unreasonable demand - like dye your hair pink or I will divorce you, quit your job or I will divorce you, quit going to Mass, quit eating breakfast, whatever? You are only morally culpable for the breakdown of a marriage if you are being unreasonable.

Edited to add: In my case, putting my foot down led to some more maturity in my husband in the long haul. By spoiling your wife you are paving her path to Hell. Help her grow in virtue by at least cutting off the funds if she refuses to help you be responsible with a budget.

This is an excellent post…excellent advice.

 

[adelore]

You have recieved a lot of good advice, and plenty I would hope you would take.

My x-husband had a lover too. (not same sex though) and I went through all kinds of things with him, all kinds of abuse…not just verbal. But I gave him another chance, (of course I told him I’d divorce him, if he didn’t give her up.) We moved across the state…a few years later I find out that she followed us and he continued the affiar, it never ended, she just moved at the same time we did…un-knowing to me of course. (no wonder things didn’t improve no matter how hard I tried.)

What did I do? I left with our 4 children, I moved back across to the other side of the state and he filed for divorce. Once the divorce was final, she dumped him! He then wanted me to go back to him. Not a chance! 11 years of abuse was enough!

It took years to heal from the mental, emotional, physcial abuse…but I am more blessed now for having made the choice to Leave!

And by the way my now 4 adult children have told me it was the best choice I could have made for them too. Living in an abusive home was not good for them. They all told me their life improved once I left him. So you see living in an abusive home, the children are effected very much, thankfully I got them and myself out of it, before it was too late for them to believe this was normal and to repeat the pattern in their life. How sad that would have been.

 

[Rita88]

I should start my message by stating I am not a Catholic, thus I do not attempt to give you any advice in the area of Catholicism.

When two marry before the eyes of God, they commit their bodies to each other, in the trust that the person they wed would not expect of them something that would cause them pain, hurt and any other negative emotion.

God made man and woman so they may love each other physically and emmotionally in the sacrament of marriage; so in this sense, marital relations are also consecrated by God. I don’t quite understand the psychology of your wife as having kids is not reason to withdraw from any aspect of your marriage and nor is trying to conceive a reason to enter into a marriage. Sex in marriage is before the child, it is the love between man and wife that God ordains. God then, according to his divine plan may bless that couple with children; but only He sees when this time is right. But… God does not ordain your marriage until you have children, his call to you and your wife is of love everlasting… just like Jesus’ love on the cross for us.

For your wife to deny you of this love you seem to imply is saying “we’ve got kids now, there’s no need.” That’s like going to Holy Communion once and saying “I’ve been forgiven once, and I’ve shared in the Lord’s Supper once - I can now stop loving/needing/depending up on God”. We understand this is not the way our relationship should be occur, and equally this is not the way a marriage should.

If your wife finds intimate relationships difficult, support her in the unseen. I know you seem very caring and supportive, but never loose hope or stop holding your marriage in prayer. Allow her to find your heart in God, as well as her heart in you.

I like the saying “A woman’s heart should be so wrapped up in God, that a Man should seek God to find it.” Please, seek it in God.

You have amazing strength and loyalty, and your silent struggles do not go unseen. God knows of your faithfulness and he will bless you accordingly, I’m certain.

May the Holy Spirit set your hearts a blaze once more with God’s eternal love x