Wrong again sparky. We live in a land of excess. Very little of our possessions do we truly need. You can blame the government all you want, what we really need to do is look in the mirror, examine our lives, and learn how to make sacrifices.If I do not give to charity, it’s because I can’t. And it’s becoming more and more so with the growth of government and the upcoming increase in taxes.
You should just happily comply with your increased tax burden and consider it “government-assisted” charity.If I do not give to charity, it’s because I can’t. And it’s becoming more and more so with the growth of government and the upcoming increase in taxes.
Yes, and the “poor” in this country would be considered wealthy by most of the world’s standards…Sparky…Wrong again sparky. We live in a land of excess. Very little of our possessions do we truly need. You can blame the government all you want, what we really need to do is look in the mirror, examine our lives, and learn how to make sacrifices.
All I am saying is that the simple fact that people have to make the decision between prescriptions and groceries in this nation of wealth in unacceptable. I am not for a wildly liberal “nanny state,” but we, as a people, must make sure basic needs are met. No one should starve in the same country where a $1000 ice cream sundae is available for purchase.Yes, and the “poor” in this country would be considered wealthy by most of the world’s standards.
Sparky?Wrong again sparky. We live in a land of excess. Very little of our possessions do we truly need. You can blame the government all you want, what we really need to do is look in the mirror, examine our lives, and learn how to make sacrifices.
I don’t buy it. If you were as unattached as you claim, then you would realize all of our wealth in this world will eventually come to naught. Examine your possessions, use only what you need, someone else needs the rest.Sparky?
We?
I’m probably one of the few people here who could drop everything I do have and live in a shack hunting and fishing all day and be perfectly content for the rest of my life.
You need to take “we” out of your statement.
Worry about whether or not you should look in the mirror. Don’t talk to me about sacrifice you have no idea what sacrfices I have made in life. My fathers made more sacrifices than I have, my ancestors have made more than he has. But that is nothing you need to be troubling yourself with. This is not one giant commune that you can force your type of lifestyle or how you think everyone should live onto others.
If you can figure out a solution for poverty, greed, and indulgent access, I am all ears. I sure know that government ain’t it. It hasn’t been “it” for the 5000+ years of recorded human history. Even Jesus acknowledges that poverty is part of the human condition and a symptom of the fallen state of man. He is the cure. But just like we can’t make people believe in Christ, we can’t cure poverty, through forced wealth distribution or otherwise. Besides, forced wealth redistribution is just a scam to get a small number of power hungry politicians into power to make themselves rich at the expense of everyone else. From the rich, the take money. From the poor, they take their dignity.All I am saying is that the simple fact that people have to make the decision between prescriptions and groceries in this nation of wealth in unacceptable. I am not for a wildly liberal “nanny state,” but we, as a people, must make sure basic needs are met. No one should starve in the same country where a $1000 ice cream sundae is available for purchase.
Here we go with the we again.All I am saying is that the simple fact that people have to make the decision between prescriptions and groceries in this nation of wealth in unacceptable. I am not for a wildly liberal “nanny state,” but we, as a people, must make sure basic needs are met. No one should starve in the same country where a $1000 ice cream sundae is available for purchase.
Just curious. Is this how you live? Do you live in an extremely meager set of circumstances and give away everything you don’t need to subsist your life? I made this case against Michael Moore, who talks the same game, yet lives in lower Manattan in ways that most people (even the $250,000 per year rich people) can only dream of.I don’t buy it. If you were as unattached as you claim, then you would realize all of our wealth in this world will eventually come to naught. Examine your possessions, use only what you need, someone else needs the rest.
I am currently living in a small apartment with three roommates. We manage to keep our vehicles running and generally shop at discount stores. For my station in life, I feel that I live out the evangelical counsels as best as I can. I make sure I need what I purchase to fulfill my needs as I pursue God’s will for my life. I try to do this more completely. Backing a movement based on keeping all one has for themselves is antithetical to Christian spirituality. It is about recognizing the goods of this earth as lower goods, and that we have a grander existence waiting for us if we persevere to the end. If God required it of me, I can think of nothing that I would not give up, as I have already given up the greatest thing of value that I ever had, or even ever would have.Just curious. Is this how you live? Do you live in an extremely meager set of circumstances and give away everything you don’t need to subsist your life? I made this case against Michael Moore, who talks the same game, yet lives in lower Manattan in ways that most people (even the $250,000 per year rich people) can only dream of.
Sparky, I was raised on the river, the farm and the forest.I don’t buy it. If you were as unattached as you claim, then you would realize all of our wealth in this world will eventually come to naught. Examine your possessions, use only what you need, someone else needs the rest.
I can tell you what poerty is, as I have experienced it firsthand. I have been at the place where my meals came form the generosity of others. By the grace of God, I have never been homeless, but I have been close to it.Sparky, I was raised on the river, the farm and the forest.
I bought the cheapest house I could find that was suitable to raise my family. I was raised on hand me down clothes my whole life. I’ve lived in an apartment with no electricity, had to boil water on a gas stove to take a warm bath.
When I leave this world, I hope to die in the oil field working or wherever life takes me at that point. I hope to have left enough behind so that my three children will not have to worry about the things my father and his brothers and sisters had to worry about.
In my family, the people who need the rest are my relatives and we give it to them. Otherwise we donate it or sell it for 25 cents in a garage sale. My father can tell you exactly what poverty is.
If this is how you live and it gives you comfort and meaning, then fantastic. I am married with 4 children and an aging mother to take care of. I have a moral obligation to take care of them first, and then care for those that I can afterwards. If I choose to help noone else over the course of my life, that is an issue between me an God. That is the further moral arguement I will make. Government cannot solve the problem of poverty, and I refuse to submit to a policy of continuing to “feed the beast”, because the beast has an unlimited capacity to grow and consume.I am currently living in a small apartment with three roommates. We manage to keep our vehicles running and generally shop at discount stores. For my station in life, I feel that I live out the evangelical counsels as best as I can. I make sure I need what I purchase to fulfill my needs as I pursue God’s will for my life. I try to do this more completely. Backing a movement based on keeping all one has for themselves is antithetical to Christian spirituality. It is about recognizing the goods of this earth as lower goods, and that we have a grander existence waiting for us if we persevere to the end. If God required it of me, I can think of nothing that I would not give up, as I have already given up the greatest thing of value that I ever had, or even ever would have.
Personal contact with Tea Party hypocritesAdditionally, whoever said that anyone arguing AGAINST compulsory charity facilitated by government is also advocating keeping everything they have for themselves?
Be 16 years old, second oldest of 7 other brothers and sisters with no soup kitch or anything. Grow up in Leon, Oklahoma in the 1950’s and then let me know if it was anything like you have experienced. Where not only you, but your baby brother and sisters meals are your responsibility on top of your education.I can tell you what poerty is, as I have experienced it firsthand. I have been at the place where my meals came form the generosity of others. By the grace of God, I have never been homeless, but I have been close to it.
When i said “we” I meant it in the broadest possible sense. As th epeople of God, we must recognize that all that we have is a gift of God. Some people give as much as they can. Others squander wealth on themselves. Some are called to a deeper expression of the evangelical counsels (like the CFRs in particular). But we are all called to be good stewards of our time, treasure, and talents. I did not mean that you personally do not do enough. I meant that we as a civilization do not do enough.Be 16 years old, second oldest of 7 other brothers and sisters with no soup kitch or anything. Grow up in Leon, Oklahoma in the 1950’s and then let me know if it was anything like you have experienced. Where not only you, but your baby brother and sisters meals are your responsibility on top of your education.
Everyone goes through hard times, this is no competition of who did what. But when you start throwing the word “we” around as in “we” must do this “we” must not allow this. Then you need to take a good hard look in the mirror. You volunteer, you donate. Don’t worry about what I have to do or try and force me to do anything. I will take good care of my own and if fortunate enough help to take care of others.
BTW, there are kids around here to this day who have been raised in a similar means. Not quite as tough, but with only one parent and working almost full time hours along with schooling. When it’s possible the locals hire them to do whatever little jobs they can come up with to help them along. They also hunt and fish for their own food sometimes.
I get the same thing from the other side. They want government to force equality, but have no intention of giving up their own personal opulence.Personal contact with Tea Party hypocrites
Since when did Christ advocate taking over “civilization in general” and make it play nice? Christian morality is a deeply personal one. It governs what you do as a person. Like I said, find me an “governance solution” to the fallen state of man and I’d be interested. But after a relatively in depth study of civilization, there isn’t one. Poverty and greed have always been with us, and will be with us until the second coming.When i said “we” I meant it in the broadest possible sense. As th epeople of God, we must recognize that all that we have is a gift of God. Some people give as much as they can. Others squander wealth on themselves. Some are called to a deeper expression of the evangelical counsels (like the CFRs in particular). But we are all called to be good stewards of our time, treasure, and talents. I did not mean that you personally do not do enough. I meant that we as a civilization do not do enough.
You have obviously had a different experience than I. Those that I know (some of which i am actually related to) tend to take the attitude “The poor aren’t my problem. They need to get a job.” Think Ebeneezer Scrooge. This therefore is the attitude I identify with the Tea Party Movement: right-wing demagoguery with little to no concern for anyone outside of their immediate family. I would think we have similar attitudes about proper morality, but we have differences of opinions based on our own personal experiences.I get the same thing from the other side. They want government to force equality, but have no intention of giving up their own personal opulence.
Pot Kettle. Both black.
On a personal note, most of the Tea Partiers I know and affiliate with are the most generous people I know. Nearly all of them Catholic, homeshoolers, volunteer at St. Vincent de Paul, work with Cub/Boy Scouts and community service projects like Scouting for Food, Nursing Home visits, helping with soup kitchens and food pantries. Bunch of selfish hypocrites they are.
Well, as I’ve indicated, ignorance, greed, poverty are all symptoms of a fallen humanity. Christ is the only cure, not government. The only thing more government has ever done is make poor people poorer and taken away their dignity to boot.You have obviously had a different experience than I. Those that I know (some of which i am actually related to) tend to take the attitude “The poor aren’t my problem. They need to get a job.” Think Ebeneezer Scrooge. This therefore is the attitude I identify with the Tea Party Movement: right-wing demagoguery with little to no concern for anyone outside of their immediate family. I would think we have similar attitudes about proper morality, but we have differences of opinions based on our own personal experiences.