Suudy
Active member
Only? Did you not even read the quotes?
Sheriff Dupnik's criticism of political 'vitriol' resonates with public
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EmperorNapoleon
Guest
I would expect all voters to look outside of their State and at the big picture in congressional elections since they have national and international implications. I’d think that the people of Arizona would be interested in the crowd their candidates choose to associate themselves with and take that into account. Especially the kind of crowd that calls for violence and mob rule instead of democracy.
No Democrat based their campaign on a thinly veiled threat of violence if they lost at the ballot box or encouraging their base to use guns as a solution to political differences.
Suudy
Active member
Like John Kerry, Alec Baldwin, and Sandra Bernhardt?I would expect all voters to look outside of their State and at the big picture in congressional elections since they have national and international implications. I’d think that the people of Arizona would be interested in the crowd their candidates choose to associate themselves with and take that into account. Especially the kind of crowd that calls for violence and mob rule instead of democracy.
Suudy
Active member
Kerry didn’t say he could kill one bird with a stone?I would expect all voters to look outside of their State and at the big picture in congressional elections since they have national and international implications. I’d think that the people of Arizona would be interested in the crowd their candidates choose to associate themselves with and take that into account. Especially the kind of crowd that calls for violence and mob rule instead of democracy.
No Democrat based their campaign on a thinly veiled threat of violence if they lost at the ballot box.
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EmperorNapoleon
Guest
That is nonsense. John Kerry didn’t base his campaign on a threat to exchange ballots for bullets. Baldwin and Bernhardt aren’t even politicians.
Kerry didn’t tell his supporters to grab their guns and starting shooting people if he lost the election and killing one bird with one stone is a metaphor for completing a task not a call for “second amendment remedies” and exchanging ballots for bullets.
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ishii
Guest
Again, can you point to the action of someone and show that they were influenced by the supposed “violent innuendo rhetoric” ? Are you suggesting that the Arizona guy was influenced by the Tea Party? If so, provide specific examples, if not, then you should take back what you said.
Ishii
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Gift_from_God
Guest
She said Americans may have to resort to 2nd amendment remedies, so that’s pretty telling to me. If she meant it metaphorically, there are still crazy people who will take that seriously
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1voice
Guest
many of those who appear to kill for a political cause are merely demonstrating symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia. Forensic psychologist Dr. Michael Stone told the Times the paranoid mind “picks up on the grand themes of the day,” weaving them into his unbalanced mental process.
It is the disease, not the rhetoric, that leads to murder. “It’s not political thinking,” Dr. E. Fuller Torrey summarized. “It’s psychotic thinking.”
Details about Mr. Loughner are still emerging, and only an examining doctor will be able to make a definitive diagnosis. But the writings and comments attributed to him point strongly to the kind of delusional thinking that is common in schizophrenia.
“I’d say the chances are 99 percent that he has schizophrenia,” said Dr. E. Fuller Torrey, the founder of the Treatment Advocacy Center in Arlington, Va., which advocates stronger laws to require treatment for people with severe mental illnesses. “He was together enough to take courses, and people with untreated schizophrenia can function very well for periods.; But when you see these rambling, incoherent writings and comments, there is almost no other disorder where this is a prominent symptom.”
… NYT
myaccount.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/11/us/11mental.html&OQ=_rQ3D2Q26hp
It is the disease, not the rhetoric, that leads to murder. “It’s not political thinking,” Dr. E. Fuller Torrey summarized. “It’s psychotic thinking.”
Details about Mr. Loughner are still emerging, and only an examining doctor will be able to make a definitive diagnosis. But the writings and comments attributed to him point strongly to the kind of delusional thinking that is common in schizophrenia.
“I’d say the chances are 99 percent that he has schizophrenia,” said Dr. E. Fuller Torrey, the founder of the Treatment Advocacy Center in Arlington, Va., which advocates stronger laws to require treatment for people with severe mental illnesses. “He was together enough to take courses, and people with untreated schizophrenia can function very well for periods.; But when you see these rambling, incoherent writings and comments, there is almost no other disorder where this is a prominent symptom.”
… NYT
myaccount.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/11/us/11mental.html&OQ=_rQ3D2Q26hp
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Whitacre_Girl
Guest
But why at this time are we only looking at the “violent rhetoric” used by the right? Why not the left? If violent rhetoric is wrong, then why don’t se declare it wrong for EVERYONE and examine ALL the violent rhetoric from the past few years?
The inconsistencies here is what turns me off. It’s clearly a ploy to silence opposition and deprive others of their right to free speech. If it were truly about seeking a polite political discourse, or if they really believed violent rhetoric caused it, then they’d be more serious about ending it rather than picking on Beck, Limbaugh, Palin, etc.
Heck, I’m a righty myself, and I hadn’t heard MOST of these phrases until saturday, and i listen to Beck/Limbaugh. How on earth can some guy who has a loose grip on reality be that influenced by these words that REGULAR LISTENERS of talk radio haven’t heard?
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melensdad
Guest
It was BILL CLINTON who said ‘WE NEED TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT THINGS WE SAY’ and the more I think about it the more I think that we need to watch our words.
In fact I think if we look back at the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution, which was written over 200 years ago, it seems obvious that the founding fathers could not have envisioned TWITTER or TEXTING or EMAIL or TELEPHONES or RADIO or the INTERNET or TELEVISION and so that said, clearly the 1st Amendment is out of date. Violence like we saw in Arizona is obviously the fault of Free Speech.
Whether it is Kieth Olberman and the hundreds of viewers who watch his show, or other commentators like him, the fact remains that they are uttering words over a medium that our forefathers could not envision and they are fomenting violence.
So next time you want to speak to more than just 1 or 2 people and use a medium that our founding fathers didn’t envision, then I think it must be submitted to the Federal Government for approval to insure its not going to cause violence.
We need the Federal Government to step up and stop this type of hate speech:
In fact I think if we look back at the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution, which was written over 200 years ago, it seems obvious that the founding fathers could not have envisioned TWITTER or TEXTING or EMAIL or TELEPHONES or RADIO or the INTERNET or TELEVISION and so that said, clearly the 1st Amendment is out of date. Violence like we saw in Arizona is obviously the fault of Free Speech.
Whether it is Kieth Olberman and the hundreds of viewers who watch his show, or other commentators like him, the fact remains that they are uttering words over a medium that our forefathers could not envision and they are fomenting violence.
So next time you want to speak to more than just 1 or 2 people and use a medium that our founding fathers didn’t envision, then I think it must be submitted to the Federal Government for approval to insure its not going to cause violence.
We need the Federal Government to step up and stop this type of hate speech:
- BARACK OBAMA: ‘If They Bring a Knife to the Fight, We Bring a Gun’
- Rep. Paul Kanjorski, D-Penn: ‘Put (Gov) Rick Scott Against the Wall and Shoot Him’
- Joe Coppola the head of a New Jersey Teachers Union released an e-mail “praying” for Republican Governor Chris Christie to die.
- Liberal talk radio host Mike Malloy speculated that the Detroit terror plot was really a conspiracy by powerful Right-Wingers to make the Obama Administration look bad. Malloy has also on many occasions wished for the deaths of Conservatives.
- MSNBC host Chris Mathews said of Rush Limbaugh, “at some point somebody’s going to jam a CO2 pellet into his head and he’s going to explode like a giant blimp.”
- Wanda Sykes joked that Rush Limbaugh was the 20th highjacker, that his kidneys should fail and that he should be water boarded.
- Liberal talk show host Charles Karel called for the death of " Joe the Plumber"
- Chad Michael Morrisette of West Hollywood was condemned for a Halloween display at his house where Sarah Palin was hung in effigy and on his roof a mannequin resembling John McCain burned in the chimney.
- Nobel Peace Prize laureate Betty Williams in a speech to the International Women’s Peace Conference said (to laughter and applause) "right now, I could kill George Bush.
- White House Press Secretary Tony Snow announced his cancer had returned. Commentators on the left-wing Daily Kos website remarked, “the world would be better off without him”
- Alan Hevesi the New York State Comptroller, told his audience that “Senator Charles Shumner was so tough he would put a bullet between President Bush’s eyes if he could get away with it.”
- Craig Kilborn on his CBS show super-imposed the words “Snipers Wanted” over an image of George W. Bush.
- Ike Brown a Democratic Party Chairman in a majority black county in Mississippi was investigated by the Dept. of Justice for intimidating white voters with threats and coercion in a series of elections.
- Nina Totenberg of NPR whished in a interview that Jesse Helms would get AIDS from a blood transfusion or that one of his grandchildren would get it.
- Julianne Malveaux said of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, “I hope his wife feeds him lots of eggs and butter and he dies early like many black men do. He is an absolutely reprehensible person.”
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FromTheAshes777
Guest
Disturbed young men idolizing communist revolutionaries and anarchist conspiracy theorists…it has consequences.
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Monte_RCMS
Guest
Sent to me by a friend:
Well, some reflections on the Arizona shootings. First: “About 35 to 40 years ago, an element in our society believed mental institutions were places of abuse for mentally ill patients. Those people created policies to remove people from institutions, and where are they now? On the streets.”
Point 2: “Fewer illegal immigrants would help reduce crime and other social problems – because most of the social problems that plague Pima County originate on the South and Southwest sides, where many illegal immigrants reside. Whether you are talking about school performance, or dropouts, or gang affiliation, or one-parent homes, or poverty, you name the social problem, that’s where they are all concentrated.”
Point 3: “It’s wrong for the taxpayers in this country to spend the millions and millions and millions of dollars that we do catering to illegals. I don’t think you’ll find other countries doing that for other citizens.”
Point 4: “Residents should arm themselves.” “Not only are things not good, they are going to get worse. For those who are so inclined, it’s time to start protecting yourselves.”
So politicians let too many mentally ill people out on the Arizona streets, but the real problem is illegals. The streets are so unsafe, citizens should arm themselves.
Now, those four quotes are not mine. Dug up by Cybercast News Service, they are from Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik – the same guy who now blames the Arizona shootings on “vitriolic” language and hate for illegals by the right.
But not to worry, folks. He’s a Democrat, so these are just words.
Well, some reflections on the Arizona shootings. First: “About 35 to 40 years ago, an element in our society believed mental institutions were places of abuse for mentally ill patients. Those people created policies to remove people from institutions, and where are they now? On the streets.”
Point 2: “Fewer illegal immigrants would help reduce crime and other social problems – because most of the social problems that plague Pima County originate on the South and Southwest sides, where many illegal immigrants reside. Whether you are talking about school performance, or dropouts, or gang affiliation, or one-parent homes, or poverty, you name the social problem, that’s where they are all concentrated.”
Point 3: “It’s wrong for the taxpayers in this country to spend the millions and millions and millions of dollars that we do catering to illegals. I don’t think you’ll find other countries doing that for other citizens.”
Point 4: “Residents should arm themselves.” “Not only are things not good, they are going to get worse. For those who are so inclined, it’s time to start protecting yourselves.”
So politicians let too many mentally ill people out on the Arizona streets, but the real problem is illegals. The streets are so unsafe, citizens should arm themselves.
Now, those four quotes are not mine. Dug up by Cybercast News Service, they are from Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik – the same guy who now blames the Arizona shootings on “vitriolic” language and hate for illegals by the right.
But not to worry, folks. He’s a Democrat, so these are just words.
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seekerz
Guest
When people say reprehensible things that incite violence, the society should issue a collective rebuke (regardless of the side that’s guilty). When however, society splits along lines of allegiance and gives such speech a pass or worse yet, encourages it then it’s obvious what is lacking: not a Hate Speak editor, but a resuscitation of common decency before it completely flat lines.
The mere fact that we have to discuss which side is worse than which and can’t come to a common agreement that this stuff is over the line, says everything. I’m just watching Joe Scarbourough explain why promoting this conversation over inflammatory rhetoric has caused him to be labelled “not a true conservative” despite a 100% pro-life and NARAL voting record…go figure.
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FromTheAshes777
Guest
That would be because no one except those on the left (who just took some heavy losses in the last election) is talking about political rhetoric causing this. The evidence supports that this young man was influenced to do what he did by a severely disturbed mind combined with the influence of anarchist conspiracy theorists and communist revolutionaries. Oh yeah, and Mr. Adolph Hitler as well.
What Sarah Palin, the Tea Party, and Glenn Beck have in common with any of the above is far beyond me. It is childish and silly to compare them with what really did influence the shooter.
The current political rhetoric had about as much to do with this tragedy as heavy metal music had to do with the Columbine shootings. This young man was disturbed and had been for a long time. He hated the likes of both parties and thought all government officials were corrupt and evil. Neither party is to blame for this tragedy. The psycho-path with the weapon is to blame, and he will recieve justice for his crimes.
Please stop building political pulpits on top of the suffering and deaths of innocent people. It is shameful and sad.
I commend President O’Bama for his leadership thus far in regards to the tragedy. He realizes, as most of America does, that this horrible tragedy goes far above and beyond any political ideology. When people are murdered it’s not about politics, it’s about humanity.
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gilliam
Guest
Kevin Williamson makes a good point in this piece:
Where are the Riots?
I would like to draw your attention to the sound of a dog not barking: Following the slaughter in Tucson, consider what did not happen: no further violence, no retaliation against Loughner’s family or friends. Indeed, the only sentiments I have heard expressed about Loughner’s family have been those of concern and sympathy. The killer was not torn to pieces at the scene. He will receive a trial, with gold-plated legal representation, and, almost certainly, first-rate psychiatric care.
There were no riots. People were shocked and horrified, but they remained calm. They were generous with their time, their concern, and their prayers. Civilians — elderly ones — risked their lives to subdue the killer. Those who are professionally involved in responding to these sorts of situations performed their jobs with aplomb.
*This *in a nation suffering under a climate of simmering, barely controlled violence? Where are the riots?
nationalreview.com/corner/256945/where-are-riots-kevin-d-williamson
Where are the Riots?
I would like to draw your attention to the sound of a dog not barking: Following the slaughter in Tucson, consider what did not happen: no further violence, no retaliation against Loughner’s family or friends. Indeed, the only sentiments I have heard expressed about Loughner’s family have been those of concern and sympathy. The killer was not torn to pieces at the scene. He will receive a trial, with gold-plated legal representation, and, almost certainly, first-rate psychiatric care.
There were no riots. People were shocked and horrified, but they remained calm. They were generous with their time, their concern, and their prayers. Civilians — elderly ones — risked their lives to subdue the killer. Those who are professionally involved in responding to these sorts of situations performed their jobs with aplomb.
*This *in a nation suffering under a climate of simmering, barely controlled violence? Where are the riots?
nationalreview.com/corner/256945/where-are-riots-kevin-d-williamson
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FromTheAshes777
Guest
Exactly! Our society has not descended to the level of a murderer like Loughner. Political rhetoric didn’t cause this, a disturbed young man obsessed with conspiracy theories did.
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gilliam
Guest
When I was growing up we had a lot of riots. We had race riots and we had violent confrontations over Vietnam.
When my dad was growing up there were union riots and frequent lynchings in the South.
You simply don’t see that anymore. People of this generation should be very greatful.
When my dad was growing up there were union riots and frequent lynchings in the South.
You simply don’t see that anymore. People of this generation should be very greatful.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
I guess crazy people recognize the difference between a right wing metaphor and a left wing metaphor.
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ManOnFire
Guest
Interestingly, the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML) had attacked Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, who was seriously wounded in the shootings, for opposing decriminalization of marijuana.
Giffords had said, “There are serious public health costs associated with drug misuse, as well as larger economic and societal costs. For example, marijuana is often cited as a gateway drug that leads to the use of more dangerous narcotics. For these reasons, I do not support decriminalizing marijuana.”
Now she is fighting for her life because of bullets fired from the gun of a certified marijuana addict.
Giffords had said, “There are serious public health costs associated with drug misuse, as well as larger economic and societal costs. For example, marijuana is often cited as a gateway drug that leads to the use of more dangerous narcotics. For these reasons, I do not support decriminalizing marijuana.”
Now she is fighting for her life because of bullets fired from the gun of a certified marijuana addict.
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estesbob
Guest
If people want to use this tragedy as an excuse to talk about their opinion of political rhetoric in this country that is fine. The problem is they’re trying to use the tragedy as an excuse to shut up those who disagree with them. Already we have seen bills to reinstitute the fairness doctrine (translation get Rush Limbaugh off the air) and absolutely silly bills like making it a federal offense to use symbols that might be deemed threatening to a member of Congress.
And while all this political posturing goes on to real questions are being ignored. Like why was a mentally ill person able to get a gun and clips of ammunition? Why were the warning signs that he was unstable and likely be viloent ignored? Since questions like these cannot be used by the Sheriff and the Democratic Party to attack their opponents they will likely remain unanswered.
And while all this political posturing goes on to real questions are being ignored. Like why was a mentally ill person able to get a gun and clips of ammunition? Why were the warning signs that he was unstable and likely be viloent ignored? Since questions like these cannot be used by the Sheriff and the Democratic Party to attack their opponents they will likely remain unanswered.
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