Shining a light on truth vs. comforting the grieving? Funeral homily in cases of suicide

[Ahjussi]

(continued)

What will separate us from the love of God?…What did St. Paul leave out of that list? Nothing. He did not list suicide, but he did not list murder or gossip or greed either. He covered all of those things in the final flurry of words that includes anything else in all creation. No deed is too evil to be beyond the forgiveness of Christ. No tragedy is too great to separate us from the love of God.

And so, we take great comfort and consolation in all this. Nothing-not even suicide-can separate us from the unconditional love of God. It is to this all- merciful love that we, through our prayers, entrust and continue to entrust the soul of [REDACTED]. Let us not deny him now of the help he needs most-our love expressed through our trusting prayers.

Only one of those was said in any relation to “condemning” suicide, and even this was mild. The other 5 were all in relation to God’s mercy and explicitly saying that suicide is not an unforgivable sin and telling the family that there is hope in God’s mercy. This is why I asked you to quote the actual text and not use vague words. I have read the entire thread and I have not seen a single critic use a single quote from the Homily that they find offensive. I believe this is because there is no quote they can find that could be construed as offensive.

You implied that those who find no problem with the Homily don’t even have “a bit of empathy” but you yourself refuse to quote the Homily and have misrepresented what it said.

I ask again, what exactly did you find offensive about the Homily?

 

[mrsdizzyd]

I ask again, what exactly did you find offensive about the Homily?

I’ve already told you.

We see that homily very differently. I understand the emotional response of this family, and I understand how that emotional response would make it difficult for them to hear any hope or mercy in that homily.

You are welcome to disagree.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

An ulterior motive? Ha!

It seems like you want a fight. I’m not going to fight with you.

You are approaching this from the point of theology and words in context. I’m approaching this from the point of people and their emotional responses.

We aren’t even talking about the same thing. Like I said, you are welcome to disagree with me, but I draw the line at personal attacks. Stick to the issues.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

I am still waiting for anyone to provide a single word from the Homily that could be taken as offensive or in any way egregious.

People have explained what is objectionable and why. You just refuse or are unable to understand it.

Additionally, no one has lied about this priest. You are largely arguing points that everyone has already conceded. His homily is theologically sound.

 

[Beryllos]

Cite the part(s) of the Homily that you find egregious.

I ask again, what exactly did you find offensive about the Homily?

I believe I can answer that. Read closely.

The homily said nothing personal about the deceased. Not one word. The priest did mention the name of the deceased. However, by changing the names, the exact same homily could be delivered at somebody else’s funeral.

The young man who died is not just another suicide victim. He is a unique human being, whom God created personally and individually. Jesus loves him, personally and individually, so much that he was willing to die for him. And I am sure that right now, Jesus is looking with love at him, the whole person; his whole life and not just the end; his love and goodness and his bonds to other people, and not just his last moments of despair and isolation.

It is that sort of love that was totally lacking in the homily.

And you know what St. Paul said about that: " If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal." Apparently that is exactly what the family heard.

 

[Beryllos]

I simply do not appreciate people lying…

Whoa there, pardner! When you first joined this thread, your posts were only slightly condescending and subtly discrediting. Truly, every one of your posts could be flagged on that basis. My earlier warning was perhaps too gentle.

Now you are ramping it up and, I imagine, well on your way to getting yourself suspended. Don’t go down that way. Take a deep breath. Feel free to tell us what you think about issues and events, but stop telling us what you think about other forum members.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

I wonder if it’s cultural. Some cultures tend mince their words, others call a spade a spade and you can sometimes get a culture clash with respect to this.

 

[KathleenT]

I am starting to think it is this.

Expecting purgatory or the need for God’s mercy to not be mentioned at a funeral mass seems unreasonable where I am from. Part of the homily is to help the family make sense of the death in light of their faith. He planted the seeds for what the family will need to know in the next few months.

I could just as easily see the priest get in trouble for glossing over the suicide and the spiritual implications.

My take away is to make sure my children understand the purposes of our Rites, understand they might not always like or agree with the homily but they shouldn’t publicly bash the priest. If you have an issue, take it to the diocese and don’t feed juicy sound bites to the press.

 

[JanetF]

Expecting purgatory or the need for God’s mercy to not be mentioned at a funeral mass seems unreasonable where I am from. Part of the homily is to help the family make sense of the death in light of their faith. He planted the seeds for what the family will need to know in the next few months.

I have a co-worker who was VERY offended that the priest mentioned purgatory at her mother’s funeral. She’s not the most devout Catholic, so …

Personally I think it’s the perfect time to remind us that it’s very difficult for anyone to go straight to heaven without at least a short layover in Purgatory. Doesn’t have to be said with a sledge hammer, but more a gentle reminder of the need for prayer for all souls in Purgatory.

 

[vz71]

Even then, it would be a huge mistake to say, as the priests position is a representation of Church authority, that the young man would most likely never be allowed in Heaven.

Where did you read this?
I reviewed the homily and can find nothing at all that says this.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Now that the Homily has been released I hope everyone who calumniated against the good Father will publicly apologize.

I thought this whole thing smelled fishy right from the beginning. I’m not going to say the family did this for attention but I hope they reflect on their actions.

I don’t think we should be apologizing when his own bishop/ diocese has expressed a negative opinion of the homily and has apologized to the family.

Also, we just had an actual priest, Don Ruggero, post on here stating that by both prudential and homiletic standards, the homily was shockingly bad.

 

[KathleenT]

It is possible the Priest did not know the deceased or much about him. Family members in the midst of grief are not as good at giving meaningful details as they think. This is from my own experience with my family and through my work where I have worked with families who have lost people.

It was a homily not a eulogy.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I have a co-worker who was VERY offended that the priest mentioned purgatory at her mother’s funeral. She’s not the most devout Catholic, so …

When my husband, a Protestant, died, we didn’t have a Mass (just a service by the Catholic priest at the funeral home) but the funeral director was Catholic and suggested to me for the memorial cards a prayer focusing really heavily on purgatory. He thought it was a fine prayer, it had been on his own mother’s mass cards. I had to tell him to change it because my husband had many Protestant relatives who were coming to the wake/ funeral, and I was afraid they would see it as me saying husband didn’t go to Heaven because he wasn’t Catholic, or that they’d object to having to read about purgatory in general. I changed it over to the Divine Mercy prayer, “Jesus, I trust in you.” I actually had some Protestants tell me afterwards how much they liked that prayer even though they’d obviously never heard of St. Faustina.

 

[MikeInVA]

I’ve read the homily, and I think it is a very good homily. I would be happy to have it read at my funeral Mass (with the particulars adjusted to my circumstances). It was a call for hope in a time when there is an incredible feeling of hopelessness. I didn’t see anything that was “tone deaf” or inappropriate. Nor was it un-pastoral, unless your definition of being pastoral is to validate whatever thoughts/feelings/actions a person has. I pray that after some time has passed, the family will go back and reflect on the homily and realize what a gift it was to them.

 

[halogirl]

A Protestant minister may have been much more direct and insensitive in my own experience

 

[halogirl]

Sometimes you just have to say ‘I’m sorry ‘ and take feedback on board as I’m sure the priest has.

 

[RyanBlack]

A Protestant minister may have been much more direct and insensitive in my own experience

I would say it depends a great deal on what sort of Protestant you’re dealing with.

 

[recentrevert]

If the priest didn’t mention the suicide, the great big elephant in the room, he could give scandal. It is not something that can be ignored and the priest is being very merciful in permitting a funeral mass to take place at all. Sadly, this mercy towards the relatives and friends of the deceased comes at the risk of giving the impression that people who commit suicide can expect be saved, which is an unfounded and very dangerous speculation. The priest has to use the sermon to try to prevent any scandal that would otherwise occur.

 

[KathleenT]

He did. He wrote a lovely apology. It was obvious he was shocked by the response and was grieved to know he unintentionally hurt the family he was trying to help.

He sounds like he is a very kind priest. I hope his parish works to keep him.

 

[halogirl]

Me too for instance this happened to my youth group so you could potentially expect ‘worse’ from a Methodist preacher. When I was at a youth group aged 14 the leader mentioned some local kids who had passed away in a car crash. I will never forget the words later on during that little chat that ‘we don’t know what their decisions were , but if you don’t accept Jesus as your saviour then I am sorry but you are going to hell’. Frightened the heck out of us all, parents were upset but some of the kids asked for prayer that night