Shining a light on truth vs. comforting the grieving? Funeral homily in cases of suicide

  • Thread starter Thread starter mrsdizzyd
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
When I converted I found the RC church to be way more ‘liberal’ than what I was used to!!
 
@westie, nicely said, and since we don’t have any postcards from Heaven, we just have to trust in God.
 
After reading the actual homily, it is no surprise that it is not the hellfire and brimstone religious diatribe that the media and the parents made it out to be. I am not in the parents’ position so I cannot pretend to know their feelings, and it seems probable that they were poorly catechized, so it is easy to see how they could have misunderstood the purpose of a funeral mass homily and had more secular expectations for the priest’s message. I don’t think this warranted trashing the priest’s reputation in the national media, however.

I wouldn’t put much stock in the apology from the archdiocese and punishment of the priest. It may be legitimate, or it may just be a CYA thing that they are doing to save face, and then will quietly rehabilitate him when this whole controversy blows over. If the parents complained that the priest made the sign of the cross during the mass the archdiocese probably would have apologized for that too. Some priests and commentators online have come out in the priest’s defense, so I think there is a more mixed opinion of the priest’s actions than some here would like to believe. I doubt that he will see any lasting repercussions from this incident. It will be largely forgotten in a year’s time.
 
Last edited:
Public sinners are supposed to be denied a Catholic funeral because it gives scandal to suggest that they were saved without any evidence of repentance. The priest is charitably giving the boy the benefit of the doubt that he might not have known what he was doing because of the state of his mind. If anything, the priest goes too far and risks giving the impression that suicide literally cannot separate us from the love of God, when in fact self-murder is an act grievously offensive to God and which certainly will separate us from the love of God if it is committed deliberately and without repentance. What about all the boy’s friends? They might be tempted to kill themselves too if they think they are going to heaven and then they will end up in hell.
 
recentrevert said:
Public sinners are supposed to be denied a Catholic funeral because it gives scandal to suggest that they were saved without any evidence of repentance. The priest is charitably giving the boy the benefit of the doubt that he might not have known what he was doing because of the state of his mind.
Click to expand...
Committing suicide doesn’t automatically put someone in the category of being a public sinner.
 
The Church condemns none to eternal torments. She publishes decrees to declare that one is in heaven; she has never published any to declare that another is in hell. The Rev. Father de Ravignan (1795-1858) loved to speak of those mysteries of grace called into existence, as he believed, at the hour of death. His feeling seems to have been that a great number of sinners are converted at the last moment, and expire reconciled to God. There are in certain deaths hidden mysteries of mercy and strokes of grace, where the eye of man sees only strokes of justice. By a flash of light God sometimes reveals himself to souls whose greatest misfortune was not to have known Him; and the latest breath may be a sigh calling for pardon, understood by Him who hears it, and who sounds the heart.
 
Committing suicide is a public act of grievous sin. If someone was shot dead while attempting to commit a robbery or something like that they would be denied a funeral unless they gave signs of repentance before dying.
 
recentrevert said:
Committing suicide is a public act of grievous sin. If someone was shot dead while attempting to commit a robbery or something like that they would be denied a funeral unless they gave signs of repentance before dying.
Click to expand...
And yet the appropriate canon for denying funerals says nothing about suicide, while specifically mentioning several other sins. Also, the CCC specifically states: “We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.”

I think you applying canon 1118 far more broadly than clergy nearly always do.
 
Last edited:
recentrevert said:
Committing suicide is a public act of grievous sin. If someone was shot dead while attempting to commit a robbery or something like that they would be denied a funeral unless they gave signs of repentance before dying.
Click to expand...
I don’t believe this is factual.

If someone commits suicide, nobody knows how quickly they died. Perhaps they repented before taking their last breath.

What a negative attitude you describe. I am glad the priests who have conducted Cathoic funerals I attended spent the hour wisely, sharing the concept of God’s infinite mercy.

Also, I know people who have died in the commission of a crime and they were given Catholic funerals without question or scrutiny by anyone.
 
We do not work like that ,I am sorry.
Much less in relation to such a hurtful situation .
We are our brothers’ keepers,not colanders of who gets through and who doesn t.
Let whoever may be grieving or dealing with this meet a priest,but as it is,is sounds as cold as ice. And it isn t. Out of respect for whoever may be behind the screen who has had to deal with this extremely painful situation.
We love life and life is worth living…let us hope God in His infinite mercy consoles the hearts of those who suffer and those who grieve.
 
Last edited:
KathleenT said:
It is possible the Priest did not know the deceased or much about him. Family members in the midst of grief are not as good at giving meaningful details as they think. This is from my own experience with my family and through my work where I have worked with families who have lost people.

It was a homily not a eulogy.
Click to expand...
I believe it was the Detroit Free Press article that said the priest had never met the deceased young man. This would certainly have made a funeral homily more difficult.
 
Last edited:
The difference is that people don’t usually commit a robbery because they are in unimaginable pain. The pain is so great that one is no longer capable of full will or consent (and yes, I’m in a position to know). The young man’s friends and family would know this too, and being Catholics they would know that God knows it and would be merciful to him. What they needed was consolation for their grief from his loss, and from knowing that he had been in such pain he felt he had to end it at all costs.
 
Indeed, notorious Mafia dons have been given large, public Catholic funerals, and no one said anything.
 
I think the priest should be removed. Someone very close to me, who is no longer with us (not due to suicide) was suicidal. It would’ve devastated us if she’s succeeded and the priest did that.
 
Emotions are raw at funerals, especially for your own child’s. My uncle lost his son to a house fire, and while the fire turned out to be an accident, there was initially a suspicion of arson. Throw a divorce in the mix, and the result is an emotional powder keg.
 
billsannie said:
Indeed, notorious Mafia dons have been given large, public Catholic funerals, and no one said anything.
Click to expand...
Not in all cases, Mafiosi have frequently been denied a Catholic funeral. A few examples:

www.nytimes.com

Diocese of Brooklyn Denies Funeral Mass for Gotti (Published 2002)

Roman Catholic Diocese of Brooklyn denies public funeral Mass for John J Gotti, although family will be allowed to bury crime boss near body of his son in Catholic cemetery; concern about crowds cited; priest will attend wake and conduct burial service (M)
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

www.lastampa.it

Bishops exclude public funerals for Mafia Boss Totò Riina

The Archbishop of Monreale: I have no information on the corpse, if and when it will be transferred to Corleone. Being a public sinner, he will not be granted …
www.lastampa.it www.lastampa.it

www.chicagotribune.com

SPILOTROS DENIED CHURCH FUNERAL

The Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Chicago ruled Tuesday that slain mobster Anthony Spilotro and his brother, Michael, will be denied a public church funeral because of their links to organized crim…
www.chicagotribune.com www.chicagotribune.com
 
Last edited:
I am sorry for your suffering. I hope things are better for you now.

But I have always felt ill at ease with the idea there is only one cause for suicide. That it is only caused by horrible pain. But that’s like saying there is only one reason to steal, to commit murder, to over-eat.

I get the comfort in saying they were out of their mind with pain. And many of us will never understand that pain or that motive. But if we cannot understand that reason, isn’t it probable there are other motivations for suicide that we don’t understand? Like unimaginable anger or hatred of God?

I’m not trying to be insensitive but follow the logic. Our culture gets dangerously close to saying suicide is never a sin and that may not be correct.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top