Should Alabama's Jefferson Davis holiday be abolished?

[RolandThompsonGunner]

This begs the question, should the grave of Karl Marx be removed from Highgate Cemetery London then.

Graves are different. People’s remains have to go somewhere. No one thinks that a gravestone or a tomb conveys societal approval of the persons actions, unless it’s an elaborate monument created and maintained by the public.

 

[blackforest]

Will anything ever be enough?
No

It’s a phenomenon called a Purity Spiral. How knitters got knotted in a purity spiral - UnHerd

 

[Peaceable]

Not equivalent. Marx didn’t support the literal enslavement and dehumanization of human beings, nor support the killing of people in his own country who fought to defend the basic human rights of others.

 

[IanM]

Marx didn’t support the literal enslavement and dehumanization of human beings, nor support the killing of people in his own country who fought to defend the basic human rights of others.

His myriad of disciples have!

 

[ZemD]

Everyone with a pulse should read this! I had never heard the term before but it describes a lot of movements in our society today. Thank you very much for that valuable information.

 

[Genesis315]

There’s also that letter the Pope wrote to him. Didn’t he send him a crown of thorns or something?

Ugly incident.

My understanding is Davis’ wife made the crown, the Pope sent him a letter which included a picture. Are you calling the Pope doing this an ugly incident? I don’t think it was.

I see it as a simple act of charity to a sinner imprisoned and the picture was accompanied by the Scripture verse encouraging him to turn to the Lord in his sufferings. It wasn’t a show of political support. At a time when Pio Nono himself was being threatened by other temporal leaders, Davis actually expressed gratitude and respect toward him in a personal way, without asking anything in return. Lincoln maintained a formal delegation in Rome with the purpose of trying to get Rome to choose their side and requested the Archbishop of New York be named a Cardinal to show support. Pius IX declined until the war was over. He had chosen one bishop in the North and one in the South, of equal dignity, to work for peace between the two sides and he wanted to keep them equal.

The point is, I don’t think a personal act of charity can be seen as supporting any particular side or political point or specific acts or ideas of Davis. The Pope, in fact, took great pains not to do so.

This act (as well as the treatment of Davis’ family by some Sisters when his own church did nothing) almost led to Davis’ conversion (who knows what happened in the end)–something that was no doubt part of the Pope’s intentions.

 

[meltzerboy2]

Probably he was not, or would not have been, so warm toward Black Catholics. The man was President of the Confederacy. The holiday should be abolished not only because the Confederacy advocated slavery, but it was committing treason by opposing the Union. This should never have been a holiday in the first place.

 

[Nepperhan]

From what I’ve read, he was very warm and cordial towards Catholics. I seem to remember that he was educated at a Dominican boarding school, and that he welcomed Catholics into his cabinet, while Lincoln shunned them. Am I endorsing slavery? No. Just merely stating facts.

Catholics fought on both sides during the Civil War. The most prominent Catholic in the US, NYC’s archbishop, was decidedly cool towards abolition. Georgetown University was partially built by slaves. Some slaves were sold in order to pay for the university. The sellers of the slaves were Jesuits who owned slaves right up to the Civil War. Am I criticizing Jesuits or Catholicism? No. Just merely stating facts.

 

[JulianN]

Georgetown University was partially built by slaves. Some slaves were sold in order to pay for the university.

Hence Georgetown’s acts of reparation. And they don’t have a holiday, because it would be reprehensible to celebrate that sin.

Same with Jefferson Davis.

 

[meltzerboy2]

We judge a person’s attitudes by words and deeds. Jefferson Davis was consistent in that his deeds of revolt against the Union were in keeping with his words about the inferiority of Negroes and the institution of slavery. Thus he does not merit a state holiday.

Georgetown does not have a holiday, and should not. Neither does Woodrow Wilson, who was fiercely anti-Black, nor Truman, who was anti-Semitic and yet was pro-Israel. Some claim that Lincoln was not exactly pro-Negro in his day, so should not have a holiday; but his deeds, such as the Emancipation Proclamation, compensate for whatever ill feelings he had about Blacks.

 

[Peaceable]

Marx himself was pro-abolition. He felt that slavery was a good example of capitalism run amok and needed to be abolished. Now I am frankly not a Marxist. But at a minimum he himself didn’t endorse slavery, quite the opposite.

I think his solutions were poor and prone to end in oppression, but I’m not sure he saw this coming, nor intended this consciously. Don’t see how the misuse of his beliefs by his followers is somehow his fault.

 

[commenter]

I have mixed feelings on this one. I never lived in the South. At the time of the Civil War it is my understanding that the states were almost like countries, where a person’s primary loyalty was.

After the War the Federal Government clobbered the South in Reconstruction. I kinda see why they needed “Confederate Memorial Day” and Jefferson Davis birthday.

Ideally every state should have some holidays that the whole country doesn’t all have. Maybe they should abolish this one and get some other State holiday unique to Alabama, or at least unique to the South.

 

[Pat_Payne]

And, your point? Because he’s Team Catholic he should be celebrated with a public holiday in the country he raised an armed rebellion and committed treason against? I’m sorry. I don’t give a tinker’s dam how nice he was to us Catholics. He was a traitor and should NOT be celebrated.

 

[Pat_Payne]

After the War the Federal Government clobbered the South in Reconstruction. I kinda see why they needed “Confederate Memorial Day” and Jefferson Davis birthday.

360,222 United States troops died during the war the South started. If they didn’t want to get “clobbered” during Reconstruction, they bloody well shouldn’t have started a war they had very little chance of winning in the first place. I cut them no sympathy.

 

[dscath]

Point of order…for those worked up that the “holiday” should not be abolished, how often have you celebrated it? If it is abolished, can it still be “celebrated” by those feeling so compelled? If you don’t celebrate it, and don’t live in Alabama, does your outrage or concern, perhaps, have an underlying message?

I never heard of it before. I have never celebrated it. I probably never will. But, with that being said, I don’t live in Alabama, so I don’t have a dog in this fight, and see no reason I need to stick my nose into it.

Let Alabamians decide!

 

[meltzerboy2]

Well, a little sympathy, not for the leaders of the Confederacy but the troops and their families, who suffered and died, many, I’m sure, not even knowing what they were fighting for.

 

[Pat_Payne]

Point cheerfully taken – I had an ancestor who fought for the Confederacy, and I certainly didn’t mean every Southern soldier who took up arms. But still, this whole “lost cause” garbage that sprang up after the war has to die a quick and painful death. That’s what all the monuments and commemorations in the South are about, trying to put up some noble facade to justify treason that was committed so human beings could keep other human beings as property.

 

[RobertAdams]

I dont agree with the narrative that reconstruction “clobbered” the south, as the people set to benefit from reconstruction (i.e. former slaves)were also southerners. The notion that “the south” was punished is tendentious because it implies that those who led a treasonous uprising to protect slavery and white supremacy were the “real” south.

The “holiday” if that’s what it is should be eliminated. It is cruel to celebrate the legacy of someone who’s historical significance rests in fighting to keep the ancestors of your fellow Americans in slavery.

Also, yes I am supportive of the removal of any statues celebrating communist leaders from public spaces and the cancellation of any of their theoretical holidays. They can occupy a different wing of whatever museum the general lee statues end up in.

 

[jeannetherese]

Given that, I wonder how long the Joan of Arc statue would last in New Orleans?

 

[TMC]

I am not a fan of tearing down every statue, but doing away with these “holidays” is a no-brainer. We can remember our history without glorifying the villains.