Should Alabama's Jefferson Davis holiday be abolished?

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Statues to Napoleon Bonaparte? Juniperro Serra?
Our statues are, themselves, historical artifacts and may be acknowledged as such.
 
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meltzerboy2 said:
but his deeds, such as the Emancipation Proclamation, compensate for whatever ill feelings he had about Blacks
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How is this to be measured? And who is entitled to determine when compensation has been achieved?
 
Fortunately when you make a decision about a general lee statue or jefferson davis holiday you are under no obligation to make a decision about about all statues and holidays everywhere.

Rejoice! The pressure has been greatly reduced! Doing a right thing won’t make you solely responsible for knowing and doing all the right things in the world.
 
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Things such as holidays or statues in public places are designed to commemorate or glorify something, so a Jefferson Davis holiday shouldn’t exist.
 
what is the difference between a traitor and a patriot? In the case of the colonists, I would argue, it is the element of success.
Thomas Jefferson recognized rebellion as salutary:
" We have had 13. states independant 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them."
https://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/tree-liberty-quotation
 
RobertAdams said:
Fortunately when you make a decision about a general lee statue or jefferson davis holiday you are under no obligation to make a decision about about all statues and holidays everywhere.
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I was responding to RolandTompsonGunner’s discussion which suggested:
“Monuments are intended to convey respect or endorsement of what is being commemorated.”
the United States in a country with strong roots in Protestantism and which has become increasingly secularized. It doesn’t take much imagination to see that the same arguments involving respect and endorsement applied to Mr. Davis’s statue could be just as readily applied to that of Jeanne d’Arc or Junipero Serra by those opposed to the church, just as similar arguments could be made for pullin down statues of Napoleon by those opposed to imperialism.
What respect or endorsement does one owe to anyone? and for what reasons?
I think that many Catholics would argue that all are children of God and deserving of respect and that all are subject to the condition of original sin.
 
I wonder what percentage of recent high school or even college graduates could p(name removed by moderator)oint about when the Civil War occurred, within, oh give or take 30 years.

America is so history starved I am hesitant to see disappear almost anything that has gone on 150 years. Maybe there’s a local war hero, who didn’t own slaves and had nothing to do with leading the Confederacy but bravely defended his community, could be recognized instead.
 
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@Jeanne

People like Thomas Jefferson aren’t commemorated because of their ties with slavery.

Public statues are made for the public and not for the individual being carved. The individual has moved on to the hereafter and has no need or benefit for statues. Even within the CC (which is very, very different from other kinds of statues or images), the statues or icons of saints are made for the benefit of the faithful so that they can make friends with people in Heaven and pray to them.
 
There’s not really any doubt that Jefferson was a prominent “Patriot” in his failed “Confederate States,” nor is there doubt that he was a traitor to my country “The United States.” I’m not seeing either of those as gray areas. I do strongly question anyone’s motivation for celebrating a Confederate States’ patriot.
 
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Hello, I don’t think we can let fear of what others might someday say or do, or cynicism stop us from doing what’s right now.

Certainly people can attempt to draw any equivalency they want in the future, but do you really believe that the deeds of St. Joan of Arc or the St. Junipero Serra have nothing which can objectively commend them more than those of Jefferson Davis? Do you believe that it’s only our Catholic sentimentality that leads us to search their lives and find them praiseworthy?

We dont raise statues or celebrate holidays simply because people are children of God, otherwise we would do so utterly at random, drawing from among all who ever lived.
 
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Now I admit to not having gone far in philosophy…but I think “celebrate the leading advocates of white supremacy or forget American history” is a false dilemma?
 
We have holidays and streets and schools named after all sorts of people who did some pretty bad things. I say keep them all or get rid of them all. I’m not into politically correct choosing who should be forgiven and who should be demonized. Every one of us are sinners and every one of us should forgive and be forgiven.

Now like Peter in John 21 I am going fishing. Catch up with you all sometime next week.
 
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For sure, important questions. For some famous people, I think, there is hardly any redeeming quality. Would you agree that Germans would be foolish to celebrate Hitler’s birthday as a national holiday? OK, I understand he did like animals but I doubt PETA would think of him as a treasure because of that. Same with Stalin?

Napoleon is mixed. Certain civil liberties, for Jews for example, were achieved under his reign (the Napoleonic Code), but yes, he was an imperialist. Who does make that determination? The government of France, I suppose.

In the United States, it is more complicated, because there has always been a tension between the power of the central (federal) government and States’ rights. So should Alabama alone make the determination regarding a state holiday for clearly confederate leaders such as Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee? I think not, because it really is a slap in the face to what we, as a nation, stand for and what we are still trying to achieve: that is, liberty and equality for all. But I think your point is an important one, nonetheless.
 
RobertAdams said:
Do you believe that it’s only our Catholic sentimentality that leads us to search their lives and find them praiseworthy?
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I think that most in our society are non-Catholic and that there is a current of anti Catholicism in our land. We are already seeing ocntroversies about art depicting Catholic saints and missionaries.
We, as Catholics, may be more ready to continue to find Joan of Arc or Juniperro Serra praiseworthy than those attempting to write history from a secular perspective. As ours increasingly becomes a minority perspective, is it reasonable to expect that these works of art be maintained? If so, on what grounds?
 
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I dont know that the question itself is really “complicated” by necessity.

“Should I mow my frail, elderly neighbor’s yard for him.” Is a simple question.

“If I mow his yard is there some sense in which I should mow the yards of all elderly residents in my town and to which extent should I be available to do so and if I cant is it still fair to mow his lawn” is a more complicated one; true, but only because I made up a silly set of theoreticals to protect myself from feeling bad about not mowing his lawn.
 
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They could combine it with Raúl Castro’s birthday, which also falls on June 3. Unlike Jefferson Davis, Raúl Castro has never waged war against the United States.
 
Uh, on the grounds which we already find them praiseworthy…unless you believe they were canonized and celebrated for no other reason than Catholic by affiliation…

…also lets not be too subtle, the argument we’re evaluating is “maybe we shouldnt stop celebrating white supremacy because someone else might someday tell us to stop celebrating saints.” Sorry, I dont subscribe to that line of reasoning.
 
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