Should "Cafeteria Catholics" just become Protestant?

[rinnie]

Rinnie, I will pray for your brother’s soul. Though as the Roman Catholic priest told me when my mother died, and I believe this in faith, she is in a better place. The deacon officiating at her funeral even said during the funeral that she was already in heaven. While I know many here would dispute the deacon, I believe that too in faith. But I believe your dad and brother from the stories you shared are there as well. That is my faith.

Yes many people ask why. It is only human to have doubt and when we see so much suffering in the world to ask why a loving God would allow it. The Apostle Thomas doubted.

Even Christ Himself on the cross cried out My God My God why have you foresaken me!

During the course of my life I’ve had moments of why, as brief as they might have been. I don’t believe I would be human if I did not admit otherwise. But I can truly say my faith in God is stronger now having gone thru my trials. God bless you and all your family in their faith walks and peace.

I believe it too Matt. I believe that they are all in heaven. And we can believe that. We have as you stated all the reason in the world to believe that on the way they lived their lives. I never take for granted that they are for sure so I always pray extra just in case. But in my heart I feel that they are. Are we are allowed to say that.

But of course by us saying that we are not saying that God is not the one who will have the real say. BUt you are right we can believe what our heart leads us to believe on that. That does not go against the bible to believe that our God is a merciful and loving God and granted them all that is necessary for all Salvation.

I am sure it is hard for you and you miss your Mom. My Dad and Brother and I were SO close. I miss them daily. My Mom and I are also very close. We are together often.

But Matt remember one thing. We are united alot in our belief and Love for Christ. But not perfectly united in his Church. That is our goal here. To all become one with him in the ONE CHURCH.

Pray for Grace Matt. When you pray for God’s grace you will be given more and more. And the more grace you are given the more truth you can accept. It all comes through him with him and In Him in Unity with the Holy Spirit One God forever and ever.

With The Grace of God all things are possible. Remember Matt it is not your faith that will save you. It is GOds Grace that will save you through your faith. Without Grace nothing is possible. It is by the Grace that is given to us that we can do works and works and Grace lived by faith will make all things possible.

Remember what St Paul said, Faith w/o works is fruitless. Don’t just rely on faith, you rely on Grace to live out faith.

As I showed you my Brother had great faith. But by the Grace of God by his death on the Cross and his CHurch given to us he saved my brother from sin. My Brothers faith does not have the power to save him from sin. If it did Matt he would never sin. It is by the Grace of God that overpowers sin, His Living Church, not our faith. Peace Matt through this Holiday Week.

 

[rinnie]

Rinnie, and anyone else I am about to have dinner and do some other things. But let me quickly reply to this one yet before I go.

It does not matter what I say. But what Scripture tells me.

We are told faith without works is dead. We show our faith and love through what we do. But we are also told that by the grace of God we are saved by faith. Not by our works.

Your brother had his faith and belief. He probably read Scripture speaking about the Apostles forgiving sins. Scripture also tells us we are to confess to one another. Or everytime we recite The Lord’s Prayer, we ask forgiveness. And no. I do not believe the grace given from the cross was for nothing.

Rinnie, I read the Bible in faith to learn. Remember how your dad said there is always something for us to still learn in there? I pray to God. We are told to pray for one another.
I go to church to pray and worship with others. Christ said where 2 or are 3 are gathered. To hear the Word. And a good sermon/homily along with good music inspires me. Bad ones honestly not so much.

Matt we do have a problem then. While I agree with you that we can concentrate and read scripture and it is good for us to do. Scripture cannot define itself. You must go by the Church to define Scripture. Once you understand in the same Mind as Christ as the Apostles taught then yes you can learn from Scripture.

BUt no scripture has ever been interpreted by the mind of Man. That is why we must go to the Church. Unless Matt you are claiming to have the mind of God. IT can only that you claim to have the mind of Christ or you do not. You cannot have it both ways Matt. I am sorry.

Christ told us he was sending the Advocate to TEACH The Apostles everything so they can be in the same mind as Christ. This is only done through the CC by the Power of the Holy SPirit as Christ promised. NO OTHER WAY.

If you had the power of the HS Matt you would have not have been mislead in the scripture you misquoted Matt.

No one loved the Jews like Christ and No one knew O.T scriptures like the Jews. Jesus knew when he quoted this scirpture to the Jews they would see what they have done to him. You can count my bones. Go back read the entire scirpture in the O.T Matt.

You will see that will show you Jesus showed the Jews he just fulfilled what was Promised in the O.T.

God would never forsaken Christ Matt. How could he. They were all one in being. Christ knew the day he came into this world he was to die. Did you not hear him tell his Mother at the Wedding years before. My Time has not yet come. Christ had to Die Matt to over power the devil. TO over power death. Why do you think it says Oh death where is your sting. When Christ died he made it possible for no sin to ever keep us from God again. That is why CHrist is the new adam. Adam brought death to the body. CHrist overcame death of the SOul. CHrist gave us Eternal life.

 

[Lapey]

No Time in Eternity. Unless you think anyone would assume the deceased is in Hell, but that seems so unlikely. Paul was taken up to the “third” Heaven. Maybe the deceased is just in the first. The Purgatory/Heaven transition is irrelevant in terms of human Time. So “already in Heaven” is as sensible as anything.

What I find not very sensible is for a lot of people who profess to be following Christ to get together and think they get to judge who should, or should not, be in His Church.

I’m imagining the day of their own passing when they meet St. Peter, who is making the report to hand to Jesus, Who is in the background playing backgammon with Ghandi. The Faithful CCC Catholic says, “I voted for anti-abortion candidates in every single election!”

St. Peter: “Uh-huh. How many times did you visit the imprisoned?”

Faithful CCC Cath: “Well, there’s no prison in my neighborhood. So, never.”

St Peter looks up, “Not even once?” Jesus turns His head, listening to the answer.

FCCC Cath: “No, but I posted in a forum and tried to explain how people should follow the rules of the Church and we should throw out the heretics!”

Jesus stands and steps up behind St Peter: “You did what?”

Planks, people.

So when I preside over a funeral as deacon in my assigned parish, I should tell the congregation that there is another saint in which to intercede for us, the deceased? I didn’y say anything negative, just it is not up to us individuals to pronounce someone a saint, as the deacon I mentioned.

Do you see a problem with this? It is in line with Church teaching and belief, don’t you think?

I’m a little confused as to your point, help me understand my err.

 

[CMatt25]

I’ve been reading CMatt25’s postings with interest in this thread. The word that comes to mind is “relativism”, not loving charity in his motive to allow other Roman Catholics their “faith beliefs”.

Guanophore has informed me I am not to apologize when someone misunderstands. So I’ll try not to in this case. But obviously you misunderstand because I am all for allowing you your faith beliefs. That is my point. I am for everyone being allowed their faith beliefs. Including Cafeteria Catholics the topic of OP. And while true I personally don’t have much need to think I know for certain my faith is more correct than someone else’s. If someone needs to think that, they can. I just recognize that people of faith have different faiths and beliefs. And like trying to remember there is a difference between having faith and belief vs absolutely knowing. Trying to without condemning or judging other faiths and beliefs. God bless and peace.

 

[Lapey]

Guanophore has informed me I am not to apologize when someone misunderstands. So I’ll try not to in this case. But obviously you misunderstand because I am all for allowing you your faith beliefs. That is my point. I am for everyone being allowed their faith beliefs. Including Cafeteria Catholics the topic of OP. And while true I personally don’t have much need to think I know for certain my faith is more correct than someone else’s. If someone needs to think that, they can. I just recognize that people of faith have different faiths and beliefs. And like trying to remember there is a difference between having faith and belief vs absolutely knowing. Trying to without condemning or judging other faiths and beliefs. God bless and peace.

I really believe sometimes that you are just a troll jacking with us. If not, I’m not sure what to say.

Except, you still haven’t addressed my point about the CCC’s you skip.

 

[rinnie]

Guanophore has informed me I am not to apologize when someone misunderstands. So I’ll try not to in this case. But obviously you misunderstand because I am all for allowing you your faith beliefs. That is my point. I am for everyone being allowed their faith beliefs. Including Cafeteria Catholics the topic of OP. And while true I personally don’t have much need to think I know for certain my faith is more correct than someone else’s. If someone needs to think that, they can. I just recognize that people of faith have different faiths and beliefs. And like trying to remember there is a difference between having faith and belief vs absolutely knowing. Trying to without condemning or judging other faiths and beliefs. God bless and peace.

But Matt how then do you suppose we are supposed to proclaim the good news if we go by your if it feels good do it attitude.

So then if one would say to you that they reject Christ you will allow them to do that also correct? Because you know what you have no choice

I mean come on Matt don’t we all feel that way. Even Christ did. He gave us all free will to accept his word or reject it. I agree we cannot force our truth on others. We are not trying to do that.

But then where do we come in to play here Matt? If we accept false teachings of the Catholic Church how does that do Christ Justice? Would that not be the same as I told you earlier to accept sin because you don’t want to make waves.

We as Catholics are always taught to admire all faiths for the Truth they have. But do we owe anything to God to stand up for untruths that People have? Whats our Job here Matt?

That is what you have to ask yourself here. I know you feel that your faith can overpower the truth of the RCC. But you know what Matt not according to scripture. As I have showed you.

Did you ever have faith in someone Matt and they let you down? But then what does that say about your faith? It says your faith was wrong was it not? But see the faith that comes from the CC is Divine. It is by the power of the Holy Spirit. So it cannot be wrong.

Why Matt did Christ send the Holy Spirit to the CC if human faith were enough. Why did Christ say the Spirit is willing but the flesh is weak?

 

[CMatt25]

I really believe sometimes that you are just a troll jacking with us. If not, I’m not sure what to say.

Except, you still haven’t addressed my point about the CCC’s you skip.

No Lapey. And I really don’t like repeating my beliefs about faith. But some like Guanophore keep me repeating myself. Maybe if I just ignore him/her/them, that would be better. But we all respond when our beliefs or views are challenged. And I don’t think any who respond to me are trolls. Sometimes too I am accused of not having a place for God or authority. And when God is my authority, I can’t let people read that I do not have these things and then think the accusations are truth.

I am refreshed though at the moment following my recent charitable discussions with Rinnie. And these posts here I have just read by Pnewton and Praxising.

Lapey, I don’t know what I haven’t addressed. You spoke of CCC about informing the conscience. And I had already said people could be wrong.

 

[rinnie]

ANd Matt no offense but could you just answer a question. If you feel that you are being disrespectful to my faith, its okay. But at least be honest in answering the questions is all.

If not why are you really Here?

 

[rinnie]

No Lapey. And I really don’t like repeating my beliefs about faith. But some like Guanophore keep me repeating myself. Maybe I’d be best to just ignore him/her/them. I am refreshed though at the moment following my recent charitable discussions with Rinnie. And posts I have just read by Pnewton and Praxising.

Lapey, I don’t know what I haven’t addressed. You spoke of CCC about informing the conscience. And I had already said people could be wrong.

Okay Matt let me put it another way. You don’t seem to be answering what we are asking. Let me give you a example.

If I say to you Matt do you believe you have the Power to interpret scripture. You can say Yes I do or no I do not.

Or you can say I know scripture states that the Power of the Holy Spirit leads the CC but I am not seeing this. OR you can say I do not see this scripture. Thats okay Matt. sometimes you have to say something that is not exactly nice. But if you are being honest in your heart its okay.

Or you can say the scripture does not say that. Or you can say I know what it says but I do not understand that scripture. Thats okay Matt. You are not supposed to understand everything on your own.

Trust me Matt w/o the teachings of the RCC they would make minse meat out of me. Every time I ever tried to define scripture on what I thought it said I was usually 9 times out of 10 making scripture contradict scripture.

It wasnt until I learned it was not my personal fault I just do not have this power from God is all I need the Church to teach me. I cannot do it on my own.

 

[Lapey]

No Lapey. And I really don’t like repeating my beliefs about faith. But some like Guanophore keep me repeating myself. Maybe if I just ignore him/her/them, that would be better. But we all respond when our beliefs or views are challenged. And I don’t think any who respond to me are trolls. Sometimes too I am accused of not having a place for God or authority. And when God is my authority, I can’t let people read that I do not have these things and then think the accusations are truth.

I am refreshed though at the moment following my recent charitable discussions with Rinnie. And these posts here I have just read by Pnewton and Praxising.

Lapey, I don’t know what I haven’t addressed. You spoke of CCC about informing the conscience. And I had already said people could be wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CMatt25
My friend seeks the truth as we all are on our faith walks. No it’s not because ECFs cast doubt on what she wants to believe. She searches Scripture in her discernment of trying to determine what it is she is to believe.

Not exactly correct Tantum. Christians don’t believe the EXACT same things. Just plugging along on their faith walk without sight. Striving to follow their consciences. Where within those consciences is their “most secret core”. Where they are “alone with God whose voice echoes”. (CCC1776) Striving to “always obey” their conscience so as not “to act against it” and “condemn” themselves. (CCC 1790) Exercising their “right to act in conscience and in freedom so as personally to make moral decisions”. (CCC 1782)

So united in a belief in Him, all just striving to do their best to reach and know the truth, Tantum.

Matt, I have discussed with you these sections of the CCC before, you always seem to skip this section. I think I know why. It must be a special gift you have to cherry pick what you want to believe, then completely ignore the rest.

II. THE FORMATION OF CONSCIENCE

1783 Conscience must be informed and moral judgment enlightened. A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgments according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator. The education of conscience is indispensable for human beings who are subjected to negative influences and tempted by sin to prefer their own judgment and to reject authoritative teachings.
1784 The education of the conscience is a lifelong task. From the earliest years, it awakens the child to the knowledge and practice of the interior law recognized by conscience. Prudent education teaches virtue; it prevents or cures fear, selfishness and pride, resentment arising from guilt, and feelings of complacency, born of human weakness and faults. The education of the conscience guarantees freedom and engenders peace of heart.

1785 In the formation of conscience the Word of God is the light for our path,54 we must assimilate it in faith and prayer and put it into practice. We must also examine our conscience before the Lord’s Cross. We are assisted by the gifts of the Holy Spirit, aided by the witness or advice of others and guided by the authoritative teaching of the Church.55

IV. ERRONEOUS JUDGMENT

1790 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed. 1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man "takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin."59 In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.

I would say that if you want to use some of the truth to back up your ideas, it must fit all of the truth. If what you believe contradicts what you use to support your view, then you are not being honest with yourself, or anyone for that matter.

Jesus gave us so much and we ignore it for so long. He gave us His Church to lead us and teach us, but if we ignore what She teaches and continue to follow an illformed or unformed concience, as you see

---

Peace,
Deacon Lapey

Why skip, or pick and choose? Here is the entire post. read it all, then answer why you use parts to back up your story, then ignore the parts of the same section that turn your “my faith” world upside down?

If this doesn’t rethink the relative truth idea, then nothing will.

 

[CMatt25]

ANd Matt no offense but could you just answer a question. If you feel that you are being disrespectful to my faith, its okay. But at least be honest in answering the questions is all.

If not why are you really Here?

Rinnie, exactly what question(s) would you like answered? I don’t feel I am being disrespectful to your faith. I am here on the non Catholic forum to learn about faiths and to discuss various beliefs. When I am on the news forum, politics is often a main topic there. Sometimes I ask a question on Apologetics or enter a discussion with “traditionalists”. Sometimes, too often I would submit, like I said I am accused. Often of the same things over and over. And I reply.

 

[CMatt25]

If this doesn’t rethink the relative truth idea, then nothing will.

See Rinnie. Here it comes again. Even though I don’t believe there are as many truths as there are peeple.

 

[estesbob]

No Time in Eternity. Unless you think anyone would assume the deceased is in Hell, but that seems so unlikely. Paul was taken up to the “third” Heaven. Maybe the deceased is just in the first. The Purgatory/Heaven transition is irrelevant in terms of human Time. So “already in Heaven” is as sensible as anything.

What I find not very sensible is for a lot of people who profess to be following Christ to get together and think they get to judge who should, or should not, be in His Church.

I’m imagining the day of their own passing when they meet St. Peter, who is making the report to hand to Jesus, Who is in the background playing backgammon with Ghandi. The Faithful CCC Catholic says, “I voted for anti-abortion candidates in every single election!”

St. Peter: “Uh-huh. How many times did you visit the imprisoned?”

Faithful CCC Cath: “Well, there’s no prison in my neighborhood. So, never.”

St Peter looks up, “Not even once?” Jesus turns His head, listening to the answer.

FCCC Cath: “No, but I posted in a forum and tried to explain how people should follow the rules of the Church and we should throw out the heretics!”

Jesus stands and steps up behind St Peter: “You did what?”

Planks, people.

Actually he going to look you in the eye and say “you should have listened to Estesbob”

 

[CMatt25]

I believe it too Matt. I believe that they are all in heaven. And we can believe that. We have as you stated all the reason in the world to believe that on the way they lived their lives. I never take for granted that they are for sure so I always pray extra just in case. But in my heart I feel that they are. Are we are allowed to say that.

I am sure it is hard for you and you miss your Mom. My Dad and Brother and I were SO close. I miss them daily. My Mom and I are also very close. We are together often.

Pray for Grace Matt. When you pray for God’s grace you will be given more and more.

Peace Matt through this Holiday Week.

Rinnie, EXACTLY! That is exactly my point. You believe it. But like you say you don’t take for granted that you know FOR SURE. That is my entire point.

If we believe it, then yes I’d guess we’re allowed to say it.

Rinnie I do miss my mom as I can tell you miss your dad and brother. My faith has been a huge help in sustaining me though and I’m sure yours has been as well. My mom and I were very close too as she raised me alone. Cherish yours as I can tell you do.

We can pray for one another. And peace to you as well.

 

[PRmerger]

Perhaps but it’s the condemning part that troubles me.

Yipes! What in the world would make you think that the Catholic Church says we are to “condemn”???

But, heck, if in your paradigm it does not allow you to say, “Fred Phelps, who claims to be a Christian minister, is WRONG; he can quote all the Scriptures he likes and claim that it’s his walk of faith that allows him to spew such hateful diatribes, but this is NOT the message Christ preached” then it’s a pretty useless and inane paradigm.

 

[Lapey]

See Rinnie. Here it comes again. Even though I don’t believe there are as many truths as there are peepleWhat does this mean?.

See Matt. Here it comes again, what the hek are you talking about? My question was simple and on point, if a caf catholic decides to provide part of the CCC to back up his relative truth ideas, then why does that hold water and the rest of the CCC not?

If you cannot answer the question then just say you cannot, don’t write me off to another poster as another attack on poor little me. That gives the impression you cannot answer, or won’t.

On a side note, I take your word for it about your mom, however my only comment to that was about the deacon saying a person was a saint. We are taught, with good reason, not to cannonise at a funeral or wake service. We are assured in our faith that those who truly believe and live out the faith are rewarded with eternal life with God. My only point was don’t write them in or out too soon, they need our prayer and if they are in the presence of God then they are praying for us.

I in no way spoke on your mom being anywhere heaven or not heaven. I assure you that my mom, in my mind, would go straight to heaven if she were to die today. The main reason is she put up with me for 45 years, you have only had to tolerate me for 1…you have many more to go Matt.

 

[PRmerger]

See Matt. Here it comes again, what the hek are you talking about? My question was simple and on point, if a caf catholic decides to provide part of the CCC to back up his relative truth ideas, then why does that hold water and the rest of the CCC not?

This is a very trenchant point. And one that ought be answered by Cafeteria Catholics.

If I were a CC I would take the truths that are palatable and dismiss the rest as being “man-made”. Quite conveeeeenient, eh?

I can believe
-that there’s One God. Palatable.
-that he was born of a virgin. Doesn’t interfere with my life.
-that we should feed the poor. Makes me feel good about service.

But things that are unpalatable, like, say, hearing Christ say that one cannot divorce and re-marry, I’ll just throw that one out.

 

[kathmandu]

I’ll give you the long-winded answer…and who knows, maybe my reason for being here might be similar to the reason why Cafeteria Catholics stay in the CC. (I seem to recall that being the topic of the thread). First I am here to discuss matters with Catholics and have indeed learned a few things in the process. One of the things that I have learned is that, not all, but a good percentage of the conservative Catholics on this site tend to make assertions that fall into the following five groups:

a) positively expressed: only the CC has the fullness of truth; or negatively expressed: your non-Catholic view of the truth is flawed;

b) the only good reading of scripture validates all Catholic beliefs; your non-Catholic reading of scripture is flawed;

c) the only good understanding of Church history validates all Catholic beliefs; your non-Catholic understanding of history is flawed;

d) to be informed is to be Catholic; to be non-Catholic is to be ill-informed, pig-headed or both (and if you don’t accept my explantion, then you are anti-Catholic); and

e) if you are Protestant, then you must believe this patently ridiculous thing.

(Let us call the Catholics who make assertions (a)-(e) the AC (for assertive Catholics). I have also learned that a conservative Catholic can make very similar assertions, but can do so in a much more charitable fashion. These assertions look like this:

1. only the CC has the fullness of truth; it is my opinion that your non-Catholic view of the truth is lacking;
2. the best reading of scripture validates Catholic beliefs; it is my opinion that your non-Catholic reading of scripture is not as good;
3. the best understanding of Church history validates Catholic beliefs; it is my opinion that your non-Catholic understanding of history is not as good;
4. both Catholics and non-Catholics can present informed, sound arguments for their views from scripture and history…my faith leads me to the Catholic view; and
5. if you are Protestant, then do you believe this thing (which seems wrong to me)?

Let’s call the Catholics who make assertions (1)-(5) the RC (for Radical’s Catholics as I really enjoy discussing matters with them).

I don’t possess a disdain for the CC or for the conservative Catholic…I have no hesitation in calling the Catholic Church a good Christian Church (which is more than the Vatican will do WRT my church). I have no hesitation in calling a conservative Catholic my full brother in Christ (w/o a diminishing qualifier such as “separated”). What I have a solid dislike for is the hostile manner in which assertions (a)-(e) are made repeatedly in these threads. I tend to respond (in kind) to those assertions with: “No, my view is not flawed…and no, your understanding is not the only good one and, in fact, there are these problems with your position.”
With respect to these charges please allow me to point out that I tend to respond on threads where the OPoster has asked for an opinion/defense from a Protestant. (In this thread, I believe Serap was happy to receive my opinion). Inevitably, the AC chime in and (from my POV) it seems that they tend to make their assertions with ever increasing force and hostility (if one doesn’t simply fold the tent and concede the field). In such a case I often respond with an almost equal and opposite assertion. Please note that in this regard:

i) my response won’t be quite “equal”, b/c I don’t claim to possess a monopoly on the fullness of truth;

ii)I’ll tend to tone it down a bit (ie Elvis used “your ridiculous charge” and I’ll tend to eliminate words such as “ridiculous”); and

iii) I’ll tend to work off the wording used by the AC to present the opposite POV (ie Elvis presented something WRT the history of the Church that he asserted was “glaringly obvious” and so I responded with some things that I thought were glaringly obvious).

Please note that I don’t have a problem with the RC as they find me to be respectful of their faith (see my discussion with Incomplete on this thread for an example @ #221…hopefully he doesn’t now regret that compliment )…it is only the AC that seem to find me sarcastic or critical. It seems to me that it is my responding in kind to the AC and my mirroring of their assertions back to them that gets labelled as being “sarcastic”, “critical” “disdainful” and “uncharitable”…I can only wonder as to how it is that the “tone” is so wonderfully acceptable from them to me and how it is that the same “tone” is so utterly unacceptable going back the other way. It is MHO that among a good % of the Protestants here, there is an instant sense of brotherhood…not b/c we are Protestants and each reject some teaching of the CC, but b/c we are all subjected to the same hostility from the AC…If my post is sarcastic…the sarcasm is directed to the arrogance inherent in the assertions of the AC.

So then…in summary, I am here to respond when asked my opinion, learn from the RC, learn from the Cafeteria Catholic and defend my position when it is criticized by the AC. Perhaps I have described my tendencies a little too positively here…but I don’t think that I have.

Thank you. So very well put. This is exactly how non-Catholics are often made to feel. Our opinion is asked for and many RC’s jump right in and put us down. And so often I have heard that I should read about your faith and I will convert. I have been reading about your faith all my life. I love to read about spirituality and religion. But it has not made me a convert. It is not something that automatically happens. Some of us simply do not possess the Roman Catholic faith. Our faith is different from yours, our beliefs are different. But they are ours, and God does love us and see us as faithful

 

[PRmerger]

Thank you. So very well put. This is exactly how non-Catholics are often made to feel. Our opinion is asked for and many RC’s jump right in and put us down. And so often I have heard that I should read about your faith and I will convert. I have been reading about your faith all my life. I love to read about spirituality and religion. But it has not made me a convert. It is not something that automatically happens. Some of us simply do not possess the Roman Catholic faith. Our faith is different from yours, our beliefs are different. But they are ours, and God does love us and see us as faithful

What would you say, kathmandu, to a Pagan who used your words, to reject Christianity? That is:

And so often I have heard that I should read about your faith and I will convert. I have been reading about your faith all my life. I love to read about spirituality and religion. But it has not made me a convert. It is not something that automatically happens. Some of us simply do not possess the -]Roman Catholic /-] Christian faith. Our faith is different from yours, our beliefs are different. But they are ours, and God does love us and see us as faithful

 

[rinnie]

Thank you. So very well put. This is exactly how non-Catholics are often made to feel. Our opinion is asked for and many RC’s jump right in and put us down. And so often I have heard that I should read about your faith and I will convert. I have been reading about your faith all my life. I love to read about spirituality and religion. But it has not made me a convert. It is not something that automatically happens. Some of us simply do not possess the Roman Catholic faith. Our faith is different from yours, our beliefs are different. But they are ours, and God does love us and see us as faithful

Yes then we are quite different. While I agree that God does indeed love us all. We know that because the word of God tells us that.

But where does the word of God see everyone as faithful? Is that not the call for God to make for each and everyone of us on Judgement day.

And you are quite correct. You can read about the Teachings of the RCC all of your life. BUt it you do not understand them it is like reading the Bible. You can interpret what you read for yourself.

You will never learn the RCC until it is taught to you by the Church itself. If you understood then you would see that are beliefs cannot be different. Not if they come from the Same Apostles that Jesus picked to guide the RCC. How could the Apostles be chosen to guide the RCC and teach the Church from the power of the Holy Spirit and then teach different truths?

The RCC has been around since the time of our first Pope Simon Peter. Christ called him the Rock on which the Church was built. So what you need to do is prove to me that the Church that is lead by the Pope by the power of the Holy Spirit was not handed down the keys by Peter. When you can do this, we can talk. Until you can what would you want us to do?

Reject the pure truth that is in front of us because you cannot accept it? Why is that putting your down? DO you feel that we are putting you down when you say something that goes against the teachings of the Apostles.

What do you guys want us to do? Agree with something that is a lie? Are we not supposed to stand up for the teachings of Christ? Just because you cannot see it?

When you take scripture out of context and teach it in a way that goes against what the Apsotles taught what are we to do?

What is the purpose of this site really. Are we not to discuss our differencs and show why we believe what we do. And because we have Traditon and Scripture to back us up and you cannot do the same we are accused of putting you down? T his makes no sense to me.

Again what do you want us to do. just agree with you guys when you have scripture contradict scripture? OR should we call you on it and have you explain?