Should Catholics be concerned about animals?

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I think there are probably still things I’m eating that have dairy in them. I know when I read the labels I was surprised to find alot of things had dairy in them. Sometimes you don’t realize you are eating it! I looked at the milk on the shelf the other day at the store, it was cheaper than the soy and then I said “no”, don’t need it! I couldn’t afford the soy so I didn’t get any. I’ve been using margarine instead of butter for awhile now. I’m still buying eggs, which is a big no no. I used to buy from the Amish farms and should really look for farms in this area that sell them if I’m going to eat them. I’m still undecided on the egg thing as someone said that it really isn’t a chick until it’s fertilized. I understand about the thing of not buying them because of the factory farms and that is my reasoning in buying from small family farms. I read once that vegans don’t care if you eat eggs from small independent farms as long as you don’t buy them. Not sure how much of that is true:shrug:
Other than that though, I think I am doing pretty well with it. There are alot of things I would have picked up at the store before but am not buying now. I really don’t miss alot of things. I used to eat the soy ice cream but I couldn’t afford to buy it now so I’ll just go without. I eat boca burgers and boca chicken patties for my main protein. I’m not all the way vegan yet but I’m getting there little by little!🙂
It is a matter of awareness, than it becomes a willingness to connect the dots and make changes in our lives – I think it is the counter cultural issue to believe that it does matter.

P.S. – Don’t forget about some of the really inexpensive proteins - beans! You can also make your own black bean and brown rice burgers, much cheaper (and better) than boca burgers! — but really boca burgers are so good and easy! (we like the Amy vege burgers better) - also TVP - amazing substitute for ground beef / turkey / chicken ---- and healthy! 😉
 
I think a good way to learn about it is to watch HBO’s documentary, Death On A Factory Farm. I think God places us where we need to be. He had a purpose for me (and he gave me a mouth that wouldn’t shut up!:D) I think God intended us to be kind to all living beings. He’s taught me other lessons as well thru the experience, maybe just for my benefit or maybe to pass on at some point down the line. I learned to hate but have since learned to forgive. It’s wrong to carry hate in yourself and it’s really wrong to take it out on someone or something else. One life isn’t more important than another. The animals have much to give too(and I don’t mean their flesh). I can’t reason taking a precious life to please my tastebuds, there is nothing to support doing that except selfishness. And I still eat eggs and dairy and as long as I do I consider myself a selfish person as well. I don’t think God wants us to be selfish. So that is something that I am working on. It’s kind of like God puts it in front of us and says, what will you do with it, and this isn’t only with animals, it is with many situations, and then we make the choice to do good or not do good. Alot of times I think to myself, would I see Jesus doing this? Or saying this? How would he act in the same situation. I doubt he ever said things like, yeah I got a taste for steak and I’m gonna have it, cause I can! Seems some have the attitude of God put it there for me so I’m gonna use it and abuse it, it’s my right. They forget that it’s also their responsibility to take care of it, whether the earth or an animal or whatever. And the only support I see in favor of eating meat is that it was eaten by Jesus and by others in his day. But it was done in a totally different way. No one that I know of sat and bragged that they were eating a piece of meat cause God intended it to be that way. And just because it was done in Jesus’ time doesn’t mean we have to still do it. It seems we all just pick and choose what we want to follow out of the bible. Jesus didn’t have a car, he walked. Are they going to give up their cars too? Things were alot different in Jesus’ time than they are now. I think what he really wants is for us to quit with all the hate and greed. There are plenty of people who can quote the bible but there are few who live it. I think it’s more about who you are and how you behave. Are you loving or hateful, giving or selfish. Will you sacrifice to help something or someone else? Are you able to put something or someone else first and care for them before caring for your own needs and wants? Sure I’d like to have some ice cream but I’m sure that cow would love to have her calf(her baby) and also have her life. Isn’t that more important than me wanting a bowl of ice cream? How can one even compare? A bowl of ice cream or a life? (I think I just talked myself into finally being vegan:))
I love your post and agree with it fully. A mouthful of bacon or steak is simply not worth the prolonged pain and suffering the animals experience.
 
It is a matter of awareness, than it becomes a willingness to connect the dots and make changes in our lives – I think it is the counter cultural issue to believe that it does matter.

P.S. – Don’t forget about some of the really inexpensive proteins - beans! You can also make your own black bean and brown rice burgers, much cheaper (and better) than boca burgers! — but really boca burgers are so good and easy! (we like the Amy vege burgers better) - also TVP - amazing substitute for ground beef / turkey / chicken ---- and healthy! 😉
I just wanted to say that I its really good to know of vegan Catholics. Also great to hear that you became vegan BECAUSE of Catholic teaching, when so many others are so quick to proclaim how it is against Catholicism to care about animals.
 
I love your post and agree with it fully. A mouthful of bacon or steak is simply not worth the prolonged pain and suffering the animals experience.
:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:
 
I just wanted to say that I its really good to know of vegan Catholics. Also great to hear that you became vegan BECAUSE of Catholic teaching, when so many others are so quick to proclaim how it is against Catholicism to care about animals.
:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:
 
In the begining, God made us, we sinned, so he had to kill some animals to clothe us; God gave us fur to cover our bodies.

Therefore the first slaying of animals was because of our sin…
 
In the begining, God made us, we sinned, so he had to kill some animals to clothe us; God gave us fur to cover our bodies.

Therefore the first slaying of animals was because of our sin…
I’m curious, is this what you were taught during RCIA ?

Some interesting quotes I found in the last 5 minutes. I’m sure I could find many more if I looked.

"For that which befalls the sons of men befalls beasts; even one thing befalls them; as the one dies, so dies the other; yea, they all have one breath; so that** man has no preeminence above a beast**; for all is vanity. All go to one place; all are of the dust.
Who knows the spirit of men whether it goes upward; and the spirit of the beast whether it goes downward to the earth? (Ecclesiastes 3:19-21)

“The problem of animal suffering is appalling; not because the animals are so numerous. . . but because the Christian explanation of human pain cannot be extended to animal pain. So far as we know beasts are incapable either of sin or virtue: therefore they can neither deserve pain nor be improved by it.” C.S. Lewis

“It should not be believed that all beings exist for the sake of the existence of man. On the contrary, all other beings too have been intended for their own sakes and not for the sake of anything else.” Rabbi Moses ben Maimon, Maimonides
 
“The problem of animal suffering is appalling; not because the animals are so numerous. . . but because the Christian explanation of human pain cannot be extended to animal pain. So far as we know beasts are incapable either of sin or virtue: therefore they can neither deserve pain nor be improved by it.” C.S. Lewis
This C.S. Lewis quote is one I was not familiar with (perhaps should have been ;))

‘…they can neither deserve pain nor can be improved by it.’ This really reinforces my understanding of our role as stewards - that I should strive, among other things, to try to ensure that animals do not suffer on my behalf. Thanks for posting this.
Peace
 
I just wanted to say that I its really good to know of vegan Catholics. Also great to hear that you became vegan BECAUSE of Catholic teaching, when so many others are so quick to proclaim how it is against Catholicism to care about animals.
I’m not a vegan, just a regular, plain old vegetarian (eggs, milk is ok with me). I never really thought about it due to Catholic teachings, but after reading this forum, it really makes me think.

God bless you all!
 
I see a lot of people mentioning C.S. Lewis and quoting him, and I never really looked into him, but wondered what was the fuss about this guy that wrote the Chronicles of Narnia? Thanks!!! I will now do some research on him!!!
Here’s a short video from a documentary (part of it includes the well known Catholic apologist Peter Kreeft) on Lewis’ conversion.
youtube.com/watch?v=ZS3thuSHUYg&feature=channel_page

The part that intrigues me is his close relationship with J.R.R. Tolkien, and Tolkien’s influence in his conversion. These were men whose professional job was mythology, and they knew it well. They did not believe the divinity of Christ to be a myth.

Fascinating stuff.
 
Since you all seem to be on the subject of veganism…

At what point is being vegan and following the principals of being vegan really more about vanity and pride and no longer being about making a living sacrifice to God???

Here is my point… Ask a vegan if the they would describe their diet as vegetarian. You will most likely get a prompt explanation. The response will focus on how they actually belong to a higher order of vegetarianism. They will make certain that there is no inkling that in your mind that they are one of those run of the mill, vegetarian.

Remember they weren’t asked about the sacrifice they are making but will point out how big of a sacrifice they are making is and how it benefits the earth and man kind. Is this a generalization, yes it is. But very true of a large percentage of vegans both here and in the general vegan public. So the generalization seems to ask an important question. You free to discount the generalization, but that would seem to answer the question. You’ve should consider that you may be one of those that likes to thump his or her chest and say, look at me.

If your going to pray or sacrifice to God, why not comb your hair, and go to your quiet place and do so there. How does everyone benefit from knowing that you lead a vegan lifestyle?
 
At what point is being vegan and following the principals of being vegan really more about vanity and pride and no longer being about making a living sacrifice to God???
I didn’t know that veganism was about making a living sacrifice to God. I’m sure there are many Hindus, Jains, Buddhists, and secular vegans who would be surprised to hear that too.

I thought veganism was about compassion towards sentient beings.
 
Since you all seem to be on the subject of veganism…

At what point is being vegan and following the principals of being vegan really more about vanity and pride and no longer being about making a living sacrifice to God???

Here is my point… Ask a vegan if the they would describe their diet as vegetarian. You will most likely get a prompt explanation. The response will focus on how they actually belong to a higher order of vegetarianism. They will make certain that there is no inkling that in your mind that they are one of those run of the mill, vegetarian.

Remember they weren’t asked about the sacrifice they are making but will point out how big of a sacrifice they are making is and how it benefits the earth and man kind. Is this a generalization, yes it is. But very true of a large percentage of vegans both here and in the general vegan public. So the generalization seems to ask an important question. You free to discount the generalization, but that would seem to answer the question. You’ve should consider that you may be one of those that likes to thump his or her chest and say, look at me.

If your going to pray or sacrifice to God, why not comb your hair, and go to your quiet place and do so there. How does everyone benefit from knowing that you lead a vegan lifestyle?
Great points. Actually, I sense that vegans think they are a bit of a cut above everyone else because they are somehow “enlightened”.

While I respect the depth of their sacrifice, I nevertheless see this as kind of silly. The truth is there is nothing wrong with eating meat. Just ask any lion, tiger or any other carn- ivore. As for the manner in which animals are treated, I do not dispute that they should be treated as humanely as possible. Those animal factories do, however, make it possible to feed many more humans (they are the priority, here) than would otherwise.

How do you vegans reconcile eating plants that are grown in greenhouses and not meat grown at plants? How is this different? Or, are there different standards for different (lower) species?

Stop putting human faces on animals. The pig is not Porky, the cow is not Elsie and the deer is not Bambi. They are just part of the natural food chain.

Honestly, there are so many more important injustices in this world. Like the millions of human babies that are being destroyed every day in abortion mills.
 
How do you vegans reconcile eating plants that are grown in greenhouses and not meat grown at plants? How is this different? Or, are there different standards for different (lower) species?
According to the American Vegan Society, the grounding for their philosophy seems to be Ahimsa americanvegan.org/ahimsa.htm
Stop putting human faces on animals. The pig is not Porky, the cow is not Elsie and the deer is not Bambi. They are just part of the natural food chain.
Yet Christianity is replete with stories of animals and their different virtues. A quick glance at any medieval bestiary shows the many anthropomorphic virtues and vices associated with them. Apparently these stories were created for our edification. bestiary.ca/
Honestly, there are so many more important injustices in this world. Like the millions of human babies that are being destroyed every day in abortion mills.
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
 
Since you all seem to be on the subject of veganism…

At what point is being vegan and following the principals of being vegan really more about vanity and pride and no longer being about making a living sacrifice to God???

Here is my point… Ask a vegan if the they would describe their diet as vegetarian. You will most likely get a prompt explanation. The response will focus on how they actually belong to a higher order of vegetarianism. They will make certain that there is no inkling that in your mind that they are one of those run of the mill, vegetarian.

Remember they weren’t asked about the sacrifice they are making but will point out how big of a sacrifice they are making is and how it benefits the earth and man kind. Is this a generalization, yes it is. But very true of a large percentage of vegans both here and in the general vegan public. So the generalization seems to ask an important question. You free to discount the generalization, but that would seem to answer the question. You’ve should consider that you may be one of those that likes to thump his or her chest and say, look at me.

If your going to pray or sacrifice to God, why not comb your hair, and go to your quiet place and do so there. How does everyone benefit from knowing that you lead a vegan lifestyle?
Don’t knock it until you’ve tried it, Sean!!! I was a lacto-ovo vegetarian for over 30 years. Before that I was an omnivore. I have been a vegan for about a year now. I have lived it all. Most omnivores do not respect the gift of meat that they eat–and pretend that it is just food–and negate the life given up so that they might eat and live. In our modern world, you are not eating just meat–you are participating in institutionalized, industrialized cruelty and abuse and misuse of resources. Factory farming did not exist in the time of Christ–it is a condition of our modern times–a situation that is spinning out of control and has far reaching effects. See the film*** Food, Inc.*** coming to a theatre near you. bit.ly/12nDKS

Sean, you seem to be attracted to these animal and meat threads. Why? Do you work in the animal foods industry? If you do not want to entertain the thoughts which vegans share, you can quite easily ignore them, or stay away from the threads.

I think that a lot of people unfamiliar with the vegan choice, have caricatures and stereotypes of what vegans are, and what they think and wear, and how they behave. And of course there are crazy, radical, militant, and obessed ones–but you will also find the same qualities in meateaters, and in people of all walks of life.

Modern society is becoming increasingly aware of how their food is produced, how animals are abused in the modern food industry, and how eating these products can adversely affect our health. The production of our food has changed more in the last 50 years than in the last 10 thousand. And the diseases of affluence–cancer, heart disease, diabetes, osteoporosis, obesity, have skyrocketed as a direct result of our diets. So people who have discovered the many positive attributes to this diet and simpler way of life, should just ***go to a quiet place ***and not share with their brothers and sisters?

At what point is being a meat eater, and refusing to entertain the thought of giving up meat, really more about vanity and pride and not about making a living sacrifice to God??? If a meat eater refuses to give up his luxury meat, knowing that this choice affects the planet in a negative way, misuses resources (food that could be directly fed to people goes to animals instead), and that animals are made to suffer and are killed in the most horrific ways–how is that not vanity and gluttony???

People come to veganism from many different angles, Sean. Some people are disheartened by how animals are treated in today’s factory farms, and that is all the motivation that they need to make the switch. Other people are motivated to take better care of their bodies, and are concerned for their health and the health of their families. Others are concerned for the planet and the misappropriation of resources. Others seek to improve the lives of the poor by changing to a diet that does not take from resources that could feed less affluent peoples.

And there is a growing number of older people who have survived serious illness. There is a large group of cancer survivors and heart attack survivors who embrace this diet choice as they are afforded a second chance. And many people struggle with diabetes and obesity and other food related diseases, and are glad to hear what vegans know about making these personal diet changes.

If you are given something good–do you keep it to yourself selfishly–or do you share??? This is why vegans share. Not to look down on you–but to reach out to you and give you the opportunity to share in this positive experience.
 
I understand that more direct care / ie ratio of caretakers to animals / would ensure this wouldn’t happen. Ignoring the animals would probably lead to all kind of problems.
You going to stop a 7 or 8 hundred pound pig from rolling over in its sleep?
 
The truth is there is nothing wrong with eating meat. Just ask any lion, tiger or any other carn- ivore.
And what do you have in common with a lion, tiger, or other carnivore? There is nothing wrong with a carnivore eating meat. It is the natural part of it’s diet. Humans are not carnivores, nor wild beasts. We were made in the image of God. We are capable of rational thought, love, mercy, charity, forgiveness…and it is these qualities that set us apart from beasts. We are asked by God to take care of the animals and the planet–not to slice and dice and twist everything we find here into trinkets and luxury foods, all for our own vane pleasures.
 
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