Should Catholics be concerned about animals?

[Marfran]

I’m a firm believer in respecting free speech-yours, mine & everyone else’s and have never reported a poster for lack of charity to the forums admin. but I think your response goes a wee bit over the top.Why would you accuse a poster of not watching a video if they have clearly stated they have indeed watched it? That’s basically accusing one of a lie.As Christians we should assume the best in each other.We do not have to agree but we can surely act in charity & not slander.
You have shown 2 videos on CAF that I’m aware of -one earlier this year that was produced by PETA, & this one from HSUS. That is absolutely your right.Many people support both groups.My take is that these lobbying groups have an radical agenda & do not help the American consumer, outdoors man, nor livestock producer.That opinion is my right to express.And pointing out the source of the media you have links to is appropriate to the conversation I would think.Maybe I’m wrong? I don’t know all the forum rules details.
If forum rules are that the original poster can ban another who disagrees, then so be it.That sounds more like Cuba than America to me…

You have a personal history that does not need to be discussed here and is distracting from the topic of conversation. Please do not post here again. This has nothing to do with your personal opinion, of which you are entitled, but rather your refusal to engage in discussion on the topic in question, and your behavour and history in previous threads. You may contant me through personal e-mail if you so chose. Please start your own thread for the American consumer, outdoors man, livestock producer.

The source of this video is HSUS and was duly pointed out in the OP.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

You have a personal history that does not need to be discussed here and is distracting from the topic of conversation. Please do not post here again. This has nothing to do with your personal opinion, of which you are entitled, but rather your refusal to engage in discussion on the topic in question, and your behavour and history in previous threads. You may contant me through personal e-mail if you so chose. Please start your own thread for the American consumer, outdoors man, livestock producer.

The source of this video is HSUS and was duly pointed out in the OP.

I have reported your comments with regret to the administrator & will abide by what he says.“Personal history” & “behavior” & innuendos of a poster misrepresenting the truth sound to me like personal attacks which would be inappropriate to a Christian forum & chilling to open discussion & free speech.Not to mention Christian charity.
If a poster does not wish to receive opposing views to their comments it might be stated in the beginning of the original post.“Differing opinions need not apply.” Otherwise one would presume it was a public discussion.
If I choose to start a thread in the future you are welcome to join in the conversation.

 

[Marfran]

I have reported your comments with regret to the administrator & will abide by what he says.“Personal history” & “behavior” & innuendos of a poster misrepresenting the truth sound to me like personal attacks which would be inappropriate to a Christian forum & chilling to open discussion & free speech.Not to mention Christian charity.
If a poster does not wish to receive opposing views to their comments it might be stated in the beginning of the original post.“Differing opinions need not apply.” Otherwise one would presume it was a public discussion.
If I choose to start a thread in the future you are welcome to join in the conversation.

Christian charity? YOU HAVE NEVER ACTED WITH CHRISTAIN CHARITY TOWARDS ME–and have posted derrogatory things about me in other threads. Have you forgotten that? You have ridiculed my manner speech, my ethnicity, etc. Again this is not the appropriate place for this discussion…and apparently you win…you have derailed another thread…

 

[4elise]

HSUS is not the local shelter that takes in strays.It’s a pretty extreme animal rights lobbying group.
Re. the question as to what threat HSUS may pose to farmers & ranchers , contact your local Farm Bureau office & see what they say.Or, if you already are a Farm Bureau member, you probably know the answer.
(Hunters & fishermen aren’t very fond of HSUS, either.)

You may consider HSUS ‘extreme’ however I do not believe this is a universally held view

You are right - they do engage in lobbying - For example in California they were partners in the successful Prop 2 - helping change the way people understood that their dinner chicken and laying hens should live…

• “The proposition adds a chapter to Division 20 of the California Health and Safety Code to prohibit the confinement of certain farm animals in a manner that does not allow them to turn around freely, lie down, stand up, and fully extend their limbs. The measure deals with three types of confinement: veal crates, battery cages, and sow gestation crates.”*

Perhaps individuals who are entrenched in farming practices that might be contrary to these types of laws would have a reason not to value what HSUS does - some of us don’t eat meat or eggs, **but an even larger % of Americans (& Catholics) do not want animals to suffer on their behalf - even if they eat the animal or it’s product. **

I believe that for some people this is just not an issue, so I could see where they would think HSUS is ‘extreme’

 

[Cracker_Mom]

Christian charity? YOU HAVE NEVER ACTED WITH CHRISTAIN CHARITY TOWARDS ME–and have posted derrogatory things about me in other threads. Have you forgotten that? You have ridiculed my manner speech, my ethnicity, etc. Again this is not the appropriate place for this discussion…and apparently you win…you have derailed another thread…

I think the rules are to discuss the issues not each other.And both with charity.

 

[4elise]

I have reported your comments with regret to the administrator & will abide by what he says.“Personal history” & “behavior” & innuendos of a poster misrepresenting the truth sound to me like personal attacks which would be inappropriate to a Christian forum & chilling to open discussion & free speech.Not to mention Christian charity.
If a poster does not wish to receive opposing views to their comments it might be stated in the beginning of the original post.“Differing opinions need not apply.” Otherwise one would presume it was a public discussion.
If I choose to start a thread in the future you are welcome to join in the conversation.

My aunt used to tell me that it is a ‘southern’ thing to say something really negative about something or someone and then say ‘bless their heart’ with a super sweet tone.
It is always so disappointing when people in forums become disagreeable - but all the more so when it is done with the little ‘smiley’ — some people seem to just love to push buttons, and then stand back and ***act surprised ***when someone gets upset.

Honestly I hope that there can be a ‘reset’ here so we can continue to discuss things in a civil manner - if not - I do hope that the moderator will also consider the source of the complaint and see that some individuals prefer to be instigators and then act shocked when a reply comes back strongly. - Oh, almost forgot ’ ’

 

[Cracker_Mom]

You may consider HSUS ‘extreme’ however I do not believe this is a universally held view

You are right - they do engage in lobbying - For example in California they were partners in the successful Prop 2 - helping change the way people understood that their dinner chicken and laying hens should live…

• “The proposition adds a chapter to Division 20 of the California Health and Safety Code to prohibit the confinement of certain farm animals in a manner that does not allow them to turn around freely, lie down, stand up, and fully extend their limbs. The measure deals with three types of confinement: veal crates, battery cages, and sow gestation crates.”*

Perhaps individuals who are entrenched in farming practices that might be contrary to these types of laws would have a reason not to value what HSUS does - some of us don’t eat meat or eggs, **but an even larger % of Americans (& Catholics) do not want animals to suffer on their behalf - even if they eat the animal or it’s product. **

I believe that for some people this is just not an issue, so I could see where they would think HSUS is ‘extreme’

My problem with the sow gestation crates is that in real life sows often roll over & crush the baby pigs.Or eat them. The farrowing crates actually allow the little pigs a chance to survive.We only raised a few hogs but learned that they will eat anything that doesn’t move quicker than they do.

 

[4elise]

I’m aware of -one earlier this year that was produced by PETA, & this one from HSUS. more like Cuba than America to me…

Just for clarity: Who here is discussing what someone else has posted in the past - and not discussing this thread?

My suggestion to all - read your posts before hitting submit reply - and make sure you are speaking from the first person.

 

[4elise]

My problem with the sow gestation crates is that in real life sows often roll over & crush the baby pigs.Or eat them. The farrowing crates actually allow the little pigs a chance to survive.We only raised a few hogs but learned that they will eat anything that doesn’t move quicker than they do.

I understand that more direct care / ie ratio of caretakers to animals / would ensure this wouldn’t happen. Ignoring the animals would probably lead to all kind of problems.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

My aunt used to tell me that it is a ‘southern’ thing to say something really negative about something or someone and then say ‘bless their heart’ with a super sweet tone.
It is always so disappointing when people in forums become disagreeable - but all the more so when it is done with the little ‘smiley’ — some people seem to just love to push buttons, and then stand back and ***act surprised ***when someone gets upset.

Honestly I hope that there can be a ‘reset’ here so we can continue to discuss things in a civil manner - if not - I do hope that the moderator will also consider the source of the complaint and see that some individuals prefer to be instigators and then act shocked when a reply comes back strongly. - Oh, almost forgot ’ ’

Being civil does not mean wishy washy.I like Ann Coulter & Flannery O’Connor is one of my heroes.So that tells you something.Whenever certain subjects on these forums are discussed it’s no surprise or shock that folks become upset.Check out the “Traditional Catholics” forums. (There for a change you can see conservatives overreacting.)
Again, are we supposed to be discussing issues or what part of the country someone is from? And always with charity & no personal attacks one would hope.
I like smiley faces.It’s a Southern thing.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

I understand that more direct care / ie ratio of caretakers to animals / would ensure this wouldn’t happen. Ignoring the animals would probably lead to all kind of problems.

Doesn’t make a bit of difference how nice a pen you give them or how much straw & bedding…Some sows are just lousy moms & enjoy eating piglets.Farmers aren’t babysitters, hence the farrowing crates.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

Just for clarity: Who here is discussing what someone else has posted in the past - and not discussing this thread?

My suggestion to all - read your posts before hitting submit reply - and make sure you are speaking from the first person.

I do try to read them but may make errors.

 

[4elise]

I do try to read them but may make errors.

I believe it is more an issue of tone than content. Oops, lets not forget ‘’

 

[4elise]

Being civil does not mean wishy washy.I like Ann Coulter & Flannery O’Connor is one of my heroes.So that tells you something.Whenever certain subjects on these forums are discussed it’s no surprise or shock that folks become upset.Check out the “Traditional Catholics” forums. (There for a change you can see conservatives overreacting.)
Again, are we supposed to be discussing issues or what part of the country someone is from? And always with charity & no personal attacks one would hope.
I like smiley faces.It’s a Southern thing.

Thank you for the heads up about the 'Traditional Catholics" Forums - I will avoid them completely because I prefer to discuss things respectfully - with people I both agree with and disagree with.

It is my belief that the ‘Coulter’ form of communication is lacking in respect, and not the opposite of wishy washy - but rather hateful & inflammatory - I saw a bumper sticker last year that had a picture of her and it said 'Who would Jesus Hate?" -

So - perhaps this is where the trouble exists one person’s ‘respectful’ is another’s 'wishy washy"

Does the moderator close down those threads on the traditional Catholics when they become upset?

 

[Michael_Francis]

***17 posts have been deleted from this thread a being off topic and/ or lacking in charity.

Remain on topic and post with charity or expect further Moderator intervention.
Very sincerely,***

 

[Ridgerunner]

My problem with the sow gestation crates is that in real life sows often roll over & crush the baby pigs.Or eat them. The farrowing crates actually allow the little pigs a chance to survive.We only raised a few hogs but learned that they will eat anything that doesn’t move quicker than they do.

I have heard this same thing from people who raise hogs. In fact, I guess it was once so well known that James Joyce used it as part of his symbolism for Ireland in his works.

I do think that because of the urbanization of the overwhelming number of Americans, few have any real idea anymore what the lives of animals are like; either domesticated or in the wild.

 

[4elise]

Here is a documentary film produced by HSUS concerning the Christian perspective on factory farming. It is called Eating Mercifully. There is a Catholic nun featured about halfway through the film. It is quite interesting. Please view so that we can discuss.

video.hsus.org/?fr_story=fddfc1d63c358bb2db36b53597ceeb7b724f5771&rf=bm

Since the moderator has given us a restart - and thank very much for that by the way - I thought I should post the op again in case someone missed the link.

To some I understand that this video seems naive - and I agree many, many of us don’t have the connection to how animals are treated, raised for food. - Honestly I think this is all the more reason to consider the possibility that some share — that possibility of animals being raised for food may not be treated in a way that is consistent with our faith.

Some raise their own animals for food - and they know that their animals aren’t treated this way — I don’t think this is what this video is about, but rather the possibility that eating mercifully just might mean omitting meat.

 

[rawmanwalking]

Simple: As a Catholic Christian I am the image of God and through the power and testament of the Holy Spirit who came into me when I was baptized, I know better than to slaughter Gods creation for my own pleasure. My heart breaks for God’s children, for we languish in ignorance and turn a blind eye and offer mouthed prayers for peace on earth as we continue to support the butchering of animals that have no voice, nor person to defend them. We will not really see the end of abortion and murderous wars until we become a people of true compassion. We must support the culture of life and begin searching out ways to satisfy our appetites without slaughtering our fellow creatures.

 

[SuzySunshine]

Simple: As a Catholic Christian I am the image of God and through the power and testament of the Holy Spirit who came into me when I was baptized, I know better than to slaughter Gods creation for my own pleasure. My heart breaks for God’s children, for we languish in ignorance and turn a blind eye and offer mouthed prayers for peace on earth as we continue to support the butchering of animals that have no voice, nor person to defend them. We will not really see the end of abortion and murderous wars until we become a people of true compassion. We must support the culture of life and begin searching out ways to satisfy our appetites without slaughtering our fellow creatures.

I did view the video. It’s kind of long. Over 20 minutes buts it is worth watching and very worth discussing. I am going to rewatch it and take notes, and come back to post again. I understand that some of the people posting here make their livings through animal agriculture, and it must be difficult when you feel that your business and way of life are under fire, but for the greater good of society, and for the planet, and for our very souls we need to take a good look that these issues openly.

I do like rawmanwalking’s post. Our evolution as a civilization, as a people of God, should not turn away from compassion, but towards it. People get all upset when a dog is mistreated but don’t see the hypocracy of their own diets. And I speak from personal experience as a meat eater who recently has made changes. Cudos to the Humane Society for including ALL animals, not just the cute ones that live in our homes.

 

[Marfran]

from the HSUS video Eating Mercifully
Pastor Greg Boyd, Phd, Woodland Church

You have a trajectory throughout the whole Biblical tradition, of God caring for the animals, and caring for Creation. And humans being mandated to work with God in caring about Creation. The first mandate in the Bible, Be fruitful and multiply, is the one mandate we’re good at. Second one–is part of the first one–be fruitful and multiply in order that you can have dominion over the Earth and over the animal kingdom. Dominion does not mean dominating. It’s rather more a concept of stewardship. We are to reflect God’s character to the Earth, and to the animal kingdom. The character that He reflects towards us, we are now to administrate on the Earth.