Should Christians assist the Jews to rebuild their Third Temple?

[jlhargus]

Oh Vey! :doh2:

To make this simple for you, the Jews are still God’s chosen people, they are not eternally “rejected”, but a their hearts have been hardened temporarily.

**Romans 11:25-27
I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.” **

The word of the day for you is- "until"

JL: Yes UNTIL, until they accept Christ and HIS ONCE FOR ALL SACRIFICE and enter the third and everlasting Temple Christ himself is building with living stones.

To reestablish animal sacrifice would be a denial and offence to the saving sacrifice of Christ. [Hb10:1 The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can NEVER, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, MAKE PERFECT those who draw near to worship. …2…3… 4 because IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND GOATS TO TAKE AWAY SINS.] Only the blood of Christ can TAKE AWAY SINS.

 

[chosen_people]

If you have money burning a hole in your pocket looking for good use give to your parish, give to the poor, give alms. It is in no way beneficia or rightl for a Christian to contribute to the building of a temple for Antichrist.

What exactly is the “Antichrist”. Are all Jews and things connected with Judaism “Antichrist”? If so should that also entail non social contact with Jews and objecting to building of synagogues? Should Catholics refrain from contributing to Jews in any way or accepting contributions from them in any form?

 

[DonLeon]

What exactly is the “Antichrist”. Are all Jews and things connected with Judaism “Antichrist”? If so should that also entail non social contact with Jews and objecting to building of synagogues? Should Catholics refrain from contributing to Jews in any way or accepting contributions from them in any form?

To call Judaism “AntiChrist” or to even connect it with it is ridiculous. The Jews ARE STILL God’s children. If they weren’t then why did Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI
visit and pray with them and call them “…our elder brethren…”?

Although the Jews have rejected Christ, they are still under the Law and eternal covenant that God made with them and will be judged by the Law.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

…Although the Jews have rejected Christ, they are still under the Law and eternal covenant that God made with them and will be judged by the Law.

Can u explain this ? On the Final Day , Jews & non-Jews will be judged by different laws ? I mean Jesus (pbuh) will judge Jews & Muslims by the same law like he will apply to Christians or there will be different different laws ?

 

[ckempston]

To call Judaism “AntiChrist” or to even connect it with it is ridiculous. The Jews ARE STILL God’s children. If they weren’t then why did Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI
visit and pray with them and call them “…our elder brethren…”?

Although the Jews have rejected Christ, they are still under the Law and eternal covenant that God made with them and will be judged by the Law.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Because Pope John Paul II and Benedict XVI were wrong. Islam and Judaism do not worship the same God. If you reject the Son, you reject the Father.

 

[The_Iambic_Pen]

What exactly is the “Antichrist”. Are all Jews and things connected with Judaism “Antichrist”? If so should that also entail non social contact with Jews and objecting to building of synagogues? Should Catholics refrain from contributing to Jews in any way or accepting contributions from them in any form?

The idea of the “Antichrist” is so much a part of Christian teaching that sometimes Christians forget that this idea is unfamiliar to some non-Christians. People argue over the details, but I believe the general idea is that the Antichrist will be some sort of political leader who will set himself up against Christianity. It is said that he will profane the temple, in much the same way as Antiochus Epiphanes. If this interpretation is accurate, then the Jews will have no reason to love the Antichrist, either, so to say that Jews and things connected with Judaism are “Antichrist” would not be at all appropriate.

I think the question is, ultimately, the following: Should Christians provide support to those who wish to construct a non-Christian religious building? I don’t know that it would be absolutely inappropriate, at all times and in all cases, but it does seem that it would be better for Christians to support the construction of churches instead.

 

[ckempston]

Well, your first statement is correct anyway: they’re all wrong. Look at where this type of illogic leads. Catholics have gone so far as to ask Jews for advice on whether their prayers offend them. Oh, no, we can’t pray for the Jews’ conversion to Christianity because that would be politically incorrect and would hurt our ecumenical efforts!

Anyone who denies the Son denies the Father. Jews deny the Son, so they deny the Father.

1 John 2:23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

They are not the chosen people any longer.

Colossians 3:12 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.

1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

 

[chosen_people]

This is my reply to all those who claim on this forum that the Jews rejected their covenant with God or that the Jews are cursed for remaining Jews (please ask for my permission for any use outside of this forum)

The ancient Romans could not fathom how, if the God of the Jews was the one almighty God, Jews had fallen under Rome’s power.

The Roman Empire has long since crumbled to dust. All the other nations and peoples of the Roman empire are no more. Only the Jews remain. It is seemingly impossible that they of all the world’s ancient peoples have survived, but they have. Even more remarkable, that they have survived despite the animosity against them, through centuries of adversity aimed to make them victims for their stubborn insistence to continue to remain being Jews.

The Jews had only themselves and their eternal covenant with God. The Jews survived.

They are no longer a vassal state but have regained sovereignty over their homeland. This too is a seeming impossibility. They regained their independence a mere three years after one third of the Jewish people were destroyed in the genocide of the Shoah. They regained their independence despite being immediately attacked by the armies of five nations. In both cases the world stood by and watched. When Hitler rose to power the world shut their borders to the Jews leaving the Jews to his murderous wrath. During World war II not one country could spare one bomb on even one mission to put Auschwitz out of commission for even a single day. When the Jewish state was attacked not one country sent one soldier to help the survivors of Auschwitz. Instead they imposed arms embargos to prevent the Jews from defending themselves.

The Jews had only themselves and their eternal covenant with God.The Jewish nation was not extinguished forever in the ashes of the Shoah, the Jews won their war of re independence.

That the Jewish state survives today is also a seeming impossibility. It sits on a mere one per cent of the land of the middle east, in an area roughly the size of the state of New Jersey, surrounded by a billion enemies. It could not possibly survive but it does. Despite its precarious position it is seemingly so strong as to be deemed an “aggressor” by those who wish it ill.

The Jews make up a mere one quarter of one per cent of the world’s population. The have only been allowed to integrate within general western society in the last two hundred years. So small in numbers it is a seeming impossibility that Jews should be even seen or felt. However, despite their minuscule numbers their contributions to society are so vast that their enemies accuse them of “controlling the world”.

The ancient Romans could not fathom the God of the Jews. Today, their descendants cannot look at the Jew and not believe in God.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Because Pope John Paul II and Benedict XVI were wrong. Islam and Judaism do not worship the same God. If you reject the Son, you reject the Father.

Romans 11

28As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

 

[ckempston]

Romans 11

28As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Yeah, exactly. God has mercy on them when they become Christians.

 

[ralphinal]

Because Pope John Paul II and Benedict XVI were wrong. Islam and Judaism do not worship the same God. If you reject the Son, you reject the Father.

What if they do not know the Son to reject him?

For the record, I could care less if they rebuild it. I will not donate anything to help. I would say that if they do so, it will cause MAJOR issues with Muslims. Even if they do not touch the Dome.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Yeah, exactly. God has mercy on them when they become Christians.

That’s not what it says.

Please don’t try to conform scripture to your dogma.

but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.

 

[Verisimilitude]

Because Pope John Paul II and Benedict XVI were wrong. Islam and Judaism do not worship the same God. If you reject the Son, you reject the Father.

They are not wrong. They are as correct and always say similar to the Cathechism which says Moslems profess the faith of Abraham- not that they actually follow it. They reach out where there is no disagreement in the Last Day and final judgement as a means only to say what we believe knowing they too accept the Last Day in an effort to bring them to the truth of Christ, but I have never heard the Popes say Mohammed is a legitiamte prophet of the God of Abraham or that the words of Mohammed (Quran) represent the same God of Abraham.

They often speak with a clear distinction and say things that are ment to be unifying, not divisive such as how the God of Abraham is peaceful, moral and offers unconditional love, rather than the clear Quranic call to violence, immorality, and conditional love. I think the hope is Moslems themselves will see the contradiction between the God of Abraham and the god of Mohammed by these references and come to the truth without war.

 

[ckempston]

What if they do not know the Son to reject him?

For the record, I could care less if they rebuild it. I will not donate anything to help. I would say that if they do so, it will cause MAJOR issues with Muslims. Even if they do not touch the Dome.

Are you claiming the Jews have invincible ignorance? I agree any building would cause major issues.

 

[ckempston]

That’s not what it says.

Please don’t try to conform scripture to your dogma.

I’m not. Paul specifically says they must be “grafted back in.”

but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.

Indeed, his gift is eternal life in Christ and his call is to repent and believe in him.

 

[ralphinal]

Are you claiming the Jews have invincible ignorance? I agree any building would cause major issues.

Maybe, maybe not. The passage implies that the Apostles (read Church) would be making an attempt to reach out to people. I am not 100% sure that this has happened. I do not feel comfortable proclaiming that Christianity has done the best job it could have as far as spreading the Faith goes.

I would say that most modern Jews DO know the claims that we make about Jesus. I do not think that they have been shown, using their Scriptures, why we claim it. Sure, some have and still reject him, but I cannot make a blanket statement that all have freely rejected Christ. Does the passage not seem to imply that those who reject Christ are to know what it is that they are rejecting?

Muslims are a more complex case. So many of them live in an area where they are not allowed to hear the Good News. So many of them know Isa of the Qur’an, and not the True Jesus Christ.

 

[ckempston]

They are not wrong. They are as correct and always say similar to the Cathechism which says Moslems profess the faith of Abraham- not that they actually follow it. They reach out where there is no disagreement in the Last Day and final judgement as a means only to say what we believe knowing they too accept the Last Day in an effort to bring them to the truth of Christ, but I have never heard the Popes say Mohammed is a legitiamte prophet of the God of Abraham or that the words of Mohammed (Quran) represent the same God of Abraham.

They often speak with a clear distinction and say things that are ment to be unifying, not divisive such as how the God of Abraham is peaceful, moral and offers unconditional love, rather than the clear Quranic call to violence, immorality, and conditional love. I think the hope is Moslems themselves will see the contradiction between the God of Abraham and the god of Mohammed by these references and come to the truth without war.

Truth without war does not exactly describe Abraham’s life. It doesn’t describe the history of Catholicism either, which is one of the reasons there is so much strife between Christianity and Islam.

 

[DennisTate]

I’ve heard Jews say that in order to rebuild the 3rd temple, you will need to remove the islamic dome of the rock, otherwise it can’t be built.

There are influential Jews who do believe though that it is possible to construct a Third Temple beside the Dome of the Rock. I’ve encountered some good writings as to why there is all kinds of room on the Temple Mount for both structures.

Since beginning this thread I have taken a Ministerial Studies 130 program through St. Francis Xavier University in Antigonish. I am definitely interested in conversion to Catholicism, but I am so interested in the Hebraic Roots of the Christian faith that I would love to offer to become the first Hebraic Roots Catholic Nazarite to be in the church in perhaps fifteen centuries or more.

When the Apostle Paul states that he had personally taken a vow and had shaved his head, this implies that Rav Shaul/Paul had taken the Nazarite vow for a period of time, maybe as long as a year!?

I will deeply appreciate prayers and discussion on the possibility of my becoming the first Catholic Nazarite, (see Numbers chapter 6) to be recognized in the church in over a millennium!

 

[DennisTate]

What if they do not know the Son to reject him?

For the record, I could care less if they rebuild it. I will not donate anything to help. I would say that if they do so, it will cause MAJOR issues with Muslims. Even if they do not touch the Dome.

I read a powerful statement recently that traced the bulk of the conflict between the followers of the Apostle Peter with the Jews to the time of the Bar Kochba rebellion:

The First Jewish followers of Jesus were called “Nazarenes”(part of the Essene sect of Judaism…). They practiced traditional Judaism and were widely accepted by unbelieving Jews. Early in the second century their numbers reached 400,000. In the Book of Acts the early church fathers said to Paul: “You see, brother; how many myriads (tens of thousands) of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous of the law.” (Acts 21:20)

The Nazarenes’ acceptance by traditional Jews came to a halt in A.D. 135 when Rabbi Akiba declared that Bar Kochba was the Jewish Messiah. His followers hoped he would lead them to victory over the Romans. The Nazarenes refused to fight because they believed Jesus was the true Messiah rather than Bar Kochba. They were branded traitors, not because they believed in Jesus, but because they would not join Bar Kochba’s armed struggle. Bar Kochba and his followers were quickly slaughtered by the Romans. Afterward, Jews were banned from Jerusalem.

History shows that as the center of the Christian faith moved from Jerusalem to Rome, it became increasingly Hellenized, adopting pagan customs and philosopies rather than the God-ordained practices and beliefs of the Bible. At the same time, Chriatianity became increasingly anti-Jewish." (The Incomplete Church by Sid Roth page 64,65)

One of the assignments for my class was to prepare a homily as if for January 17, 2010. I would greatly appreciate some comments and criticism on this YouTube video:

youtube.com/user/DennisTate643#p/u/5/7X1G7-PMvnA
Assignment # 2: Prepare a Homily (First Part)

There are actually six parts to the video!

 

[DennisTate]

Should we help Hindus build temples, Muslims build mosques, and Wiccans build another Stonehenge? I think Christians have enough to worry about with carrying out the command of Jesus to “disciple the nations baptizing them” to worry about building other religions.

On the other hand Jesus/Yahushua stated that we would be unwise indeed to disbelieve that each and every word given through the prophets would not be fulfilled.

Then he said to them: O foolish, and slow of heart to believe in all things which the prophets have spoken.

(Luke 24:25)

Simply punch the word Temple, or Jerusalem into the search option for the Catholic Bible and you will have a fascinating study on what must happen over the next thousand years.

drbo.org/index.htm