Should graphic pornography be banned?

[Charlemagne_III]

The possession of porn doesn’t exclude some one from having moral convictions.

Of course it doesn’t prevent one from having moral convictions about other matters (such as “Thou shalt not kill thy mother-in-law”).

Being in possession of porn strongly argues that in this area of sexuality (porn) one is either bereft of morals (in which case there is a shameless aspect proving one is bereft of morals with respect to pornography, and all the more so if one is willing to share these porn materials with others) or else one has violated one’s own moral convictions and become a sinner.

 

[987mk]

Of course it doesn’t prevent one from having moral convictions about other matters (such as “Thou shalt not kill thy mother-in-law”).

Being in possession of porn strongly argues that in this area of sexuality (porn) one is either bereft of morals (in which case there is a shameless aspect proving one is bereft of morals with respect to pornography, and all the more so if one is willing to share these porn materials with others) or else one has violated one’s own moral convictions and become a sinner.

Or alternatively, it simply means they enjoy looking at adults who have consented to engage in sexual practices while being filmed or photographed.

They do not feel shame or guilt, for the simple fact that they are comfortable with their sexuality.

When I was religious, I felt horrific shame and guilt when I would look at pornography.

Now that I no longer believe in a supernatural God that can see everything I do, although I rarely partake in pornography viewing, when I do…I am perfectly at ease with both my interest and enjoyment.

No guilt, no shame and zero concern.

 

[edwest2]

That is the goal for some: no guilt, no shame, no sin. There is nothing new about this either.

Peace,
Ed

 

[987mk]

That is the goal for some: no guilt, no shame, no sin.

Peace,
Ed

I’ve lived and experienced both.

A life without feeling shame or guilt over affairs that harm no other person, is a life well lived.

 

[Bradski]

No sir. Putting up with the Larry flints of the world is putting up with filth.

When filth appears on a street, most sane people would not defend its presence there. They call the sanitation department and demand that it be removed.

I am not infallible. But my Church is. And my Church teaches me that porn is evil and the devil loves it.

Do you want to keep it off the street? I’m with you on that. Do you want to make it impossible for children to access it? Great idea. Do you want to make sure no-one suffers ill health in making it? Who could argue with that. Do you want to make sure that the people involved are not being exploited and coerced into doing it? I’ll support you.

Do you want to personally decide that other people cannot read or watch or look at what you personally find objectionable? I think you may have a problem there.

And how are you going to decide anyway if you admit to being fallible in these matters? Do you send every book, cartoon, article, blog, film, tv programme, radio broadcast, advert, picture, painting, play, etching, sculpture, web page, tweet, text message, letter etc etc etc etc to the Vatican for approval?

Ah, but you know porn when you see it I guess. But that brings it back to being your personal decision. And gee, you’re going to be spending a lot of time making these decisions on every book, cartoon, article, blog etc etc. Unless you want to define what’s acceptable and what isn’t and we can see if that works.

Give it a go. Because that’s the only practical method of doing what you seem to want. You’re going to need to define exactly what it is that can and cannot be done.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Do you want to personally decide that other people cannot read or watch or look at what you personally find objectionable? I think you may have a problem there.

And how are you going to decide anyway if you admit to being fallible in these matters? Do you send every book, cartoon, article, blog, film, tv programme, radio broadcast, advert, picture, painting, play, etching, sculpture, web page, tweet, text message, letter etc etc etc etc to the Vatican for approval?

Ah, but you know porn when you see it I guess. But that brings it back to being your personal decision.

Well, thanks for putting the entire onus on me!

There was a time in America when porn was rare. I wasn’t there to make that decision to rout porn and make sure it never got to the magazines and bookstores and movie houses.
But the instinct and common sense of Americans was not to let it through.

Now we have let it through. I don’t know that we can recover from our national madness, what with killing unborn babies, men marrying men, drugs and alcoholic addicts by the tens of millions, and the nation electing a president who knows virtually nothing about governing but everything about getting elected.

You may well be right. I think we are a lost civilization, and I see no recovery down the road, certainly not in the few years (knocking on wood) I have left.

Just don’t put the onus on me. There was a time when the job of censoring pornography was done by virtually a whole nation, whereas now it is done by no one because people have shamelessly given themselves over to evil and actually brag about it.

 

[Estevao]

Lol just lol @ pornography being a victimless pastime. Just start to peel back the fake veneer on that sick industry and you’ll be disgusted—if you have a conscience that is awake, that is.

 

[edwest2]

Well, thanks for putting the entire onus on me!

There was a time in America when porn was rare. I wasn’t there to make that decision to rout porn and make sure it never got to the magazines and bookstores and movie houses.
But the instinct and common sense of Americans was not to let it through.

Now we have let it through. I don’t know that we can recover from our national madness, what with killing unborn babies, men marrying men, drugs and alcoholic addicts by the tens of millions, and the nation electing a president who knows virtually nothing about governing but everything about getting elected.

You may well be right. I think we are a lost civilization, and I see no recovery down the road, certainly not in the few years (knocking on wood) I have left.

Just don’t put the onus on me. There was a time when the job of censoring pornography was done by virtually a whole nation, whereas now it is done by no one because people have shamelessly given themselves over to evil and actually brag about it.

That is quite true. The nation was gently led by the hand for decades and very gradually led down this road from “that’s dirty” to “What’s the big deal?” The words “We want porn” were replaced by “we want freedom.” Freedom to be sex addicts, porn addicts, masturbation addicts… Addiction is not healthy.

Self-control is good.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Graphic pornography was banned in America until the middle of the last century. Since then, it has flooded our culture along with many other symptoms of the the decline of Christianity (ban on prayer in the schools, abortion rights, same-sex marriage, etc.)

Should censorship be restored? Does anyone believe it could happen legally and would the public accept it? Why or why not?

Is there among Catholics a sinking feeling that our civilization is lost to the hedonists and moral relativists, and that no government action can or should be taken to reclaim the ban on pornography?

In the matter of pornographic movies, how is this to be distinguished from prostitution, since in both cases the actors are paid for sexual activity?

How many human lives have been sullied and/or destroyed by addiction to pornography?

“Yes, we did produce a near perfect Republic. But will they keep it, or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom. Material abundance without character is the surest way to destruction.” Thomas Jefferson

All porn, in whatever form, should be banned. If that be censorship, then I am in favor of censorship. We can’t stop everything, but at least we can stop public trafficking of smut. A particularly loathsome parctice is the gratuitous advertizing of sex in public places like just about any web site you access, even some Catholic ones.

Linus2nd

Linus2nd

 

[Bradski]

Self-control is good.

It certainly is, Ed. Let everybody have the opportunity to exercise it.

Well, thanks for putting the entire onus on me!

Who else is going to decide? Because what you want to ban is not what other people find unacceptable, but what you personally find unacceptable. Who else could possibly do that?

There was a time when the job of censoring pornography was done by virtually a whole nation, whereas now it is done by no one because people have shamelessly given themselves over to evil and actually brag about it.

There are very strict laws governing what can and can’t be seen, by whom and where. Pornography is legal, protected by the First Amendment. Which doesn’t say that you are allowed freedom of expression as long as some sections of society do not find it objectionable. If you want to deny others that freedom, then you will find that others will try to deny yours.

Child pornography is illegal. Likewise pornography which uses animals or violence. That’s quite specific and easy to control. It’s either violent or it’s not. It’s either a child or it isn’t. But what you seem to want to ban is not something specific, it’s more a personal choice. And everyone’s views on the specific point at which something can be described as pornographic will be different.

All porn, in whatever form, should be banned. If that be censorship, then I am in favor of censorship.

OK, Linus. Be specific. Tell us what is allowed and what is not allowed in each of the mediums I listed above. And when you have done that, tell us who you think should be in charge of the decision as to whether something crosses the line in the sand which you have drawn.

 

[987mk]

All porn, in whatever form, should be banned. If that be censorship, then I am in favor of censorship. We can’t stop everything, but at least we can stop public trafficking of smut. A particularly loathsome parctice is the gratuitous advertizing of sex in public places like just about any web site you access, even some Catholic ones.

Linus2nd

Linus2nd

How will you prohibit adults from choosing to film and photograph each other while engaging in sexual relations in the privacy of their own homes?

Does the state have any business telling consenting adults what they can and cannot do while engaging in sexual relations privately?

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Who else is going to decide? Because what you want to ban is not what other people find unacceptable, but what you personally find unacceptable. Who else could possibly do that?

There are very strict laws governing what can and can’t be seen, by whom and where. Pornography is legal, protected by the First Amendment.

You must be very young not to know that a hundred years ago almost everybody (not one person like me) had the common sense and the nerve to condemn pornography as filth. Now we have it everywhere, and child pornography, the spinoff of adult porn, is all the rage in many quarters.

By the way, the founders never imagine that porn was speech, and so there was no Amendment to protect it. Porn depicts actions, not speech.

You might want to remember that the Supreme Court has already ruled somewhere that you cannot falsely yell “Fire!” in a crowded auditorium. So free speech is not absolute. Neither should the depiction of sexual acts be absolute, and all the more so because so many lives have been ruined by it (the lives of the pathetic people who perform and the addicts who watch them), as lives would be ruined by yelling “Fire!”

The media are on fire with terrible acts of violence and sex that hardly anyone can stop children from seeing. If the intent of the pornographers and the sadists is to raise a generation of savages, they have found the perfect method to achieve that end.

But, as i said, AS LONG AS THERE IS NO PUBLIC SHAME FOR WHAT WE HAVE LET HAPPEN TO OUR CIVILIZATION, i DO NOT EXPECT THERE WILL EVER BE THAT MUCH OUTRAGE EXPRESSED OR REFORM TO COME.

 

[987mk]

You must be very young not to know that a hundred years ago almost everybody (not one person like me) had the common sense and the nerve to condemn pornography as filth. Now we have it everywhere, and child pornography, the spinoff of adult porn, is all the rage in many quarters.

.

Pornography is as old as civilization itself. Pornography has been found as rock art and venus figurines. Modern pornography came about in the Victorian era. There was lots of pornography available 100 years ago, as there was a huge demand for it.

Many adults enjoy looking at other adults engaged in sexual activities.

Child pornography is a criminal offence and a depravity. It is a depravity because it violates a childs right to life, liberty and safety. It is a depravity to look at it, as it re-victimizes the child every time someone observes the offending material.

Comparing child pornography to adult pornography is like comparing boxing to beating someone to death.

 

[Bradski]

You must be very young…

I wish…

But with respect, you are still not answering the question. You are complaining about what you seem to think is extreme pornography. But you are not in any way explaining what that is. If you want to ban something, then simply waving an airy hand in the air and suggesting that everyone will know what you mean is simply not good enough.

You need to be very specific about where that line in the sand is between what you find personally objectionable and what you do not. And I cannot help but refer to your personal opinion because you are not in the position to dictate to anyone else what is objectionable and what is not.

And what I am asking is not what is obvioulsy distasteful but where that point is when something just crosses that line between being acceptable and not. There is a continuum between art, erotic art, what you might class as adult entertainment, soft pornography, hard core pornography and obscenity.

Where is the line that you want dividing that which is acceptable and that which is not?

 

[JapaneseKappa]

That is quite true. The nation was gently led by the hand for decades and very gradually led down this road from “that’s dirty” to “What’s the big deal?” The words “We want porn” were replaced by “we want freedom.” Freedom to be sex addicts, porn addicts, masturbation addicts… Addiction is not healthy.

And how has this trip down your alleged road “pick your pocket or break your leg?”

 

[Linusthe2nd]

How will you prohibit adults from choosing to film and photograph each other while engaging in sexual relations in the privacy of their own homes?

Does the state have any business telling consenting adults what they can and cannot do while engaging in sexual relations privately?

If you reread my post I was talking about public, financially driven porn.

Linus2nd

 

[Linusthe2nd]

It certainly is, Ed. Let everybody have the opportunity to exercise it.

Who else is going to decide? Because what you want to ban is not what other people find unacceptable, but what you personally find unacceptable. Who else could possibly do that?

There are very strict laws governing what can and can’t be seen, by whom and where. Pornography is legal, protected by the First Amendment. Which doesn’t say that you are allowed freedom of expression as long as some sections of society do not find it objectionable. If you want to deny others that freedom, then you will find that others will try to deny yours.

Child pornography is illegal. Likewise pornography which uses animals or violence. That’s quite specific and easy to control. It’s either violent or it’s not. It’s either a child or it isn’t. But what you seem to want to ban is not something specific, it’s more a personal choice. And everyone’s views on the specific point at which something can be described as pornographic will be different.

OK, Linus. Be specific. Tell us what is allowed and what is not allowed in each of the mediums I listed above. And when you have done that, tell us who you think should be in charge of the decision as to whether something crosses the line in the sand which you have drawn.

Any gratuitous appeals to the sexual appetite done publically in any venue should be outlawed. I make not apologies. Public spaces should be free from gratuitus sexual appeals.

Linus2nd

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Of course it doesn’t prevent one from having moral convictions about other matters (such as “Thou shalt not kill thy mother-in-law”).

Glad you understand that. I would also point out that contrary to what you said in #178 that people with morals can own porn without shame and without hiding it.

Being in possession of porn strongly argues that in this area of sexuality (porn) one is either bereft of morals (in which case there is a shameless aspect proving one is bereft of morals with respect to pornography, and all the more so if one is willing to share these porn materials with others) or else one has violated one’s own moral convictions and become a sinner.

This tells me what your personal evaluation is of other people that have pornography. I’m guessing this isn’t an attempt to convince any one as it seems you already had an answer to the question you asked when this thread was created from the start. I think that the people that will be most receptive to your statements are those people that already agree with you.

On a related note there are a few books on my coffee table or living room book shelf. One of them is a book of Japanese full body tattoos that I picked up from the Japanese museum in LA. Some of the people in the photographs are naked. There are those that would find the nudity (and the tattoos, but that’s another story) objectionable. Some would consider it art. Some just find it interesting.

There’s also a sex education book called “Perfectly normal” whose existence I discovered through these forums. It contains illustrations of sexual acts. From the conversations on the book in these forums it’s clear that there exist people that find this highly immoral. People that have stopped by and seen the book in my house pick up the book expressing curiosities about it.

Lastly I have a book about sex across different cultures. It talks about attitudes towards sex from various cultures both extinct and extant and has depictions of sexual positions some of which are viewed as having spiritual significance to people in certain cultures. I don’t know how many people would classify this book as being cultural or pornographic (since it does depict sex).

Do you think that any of these books should be banned?

You must be very young not to know that a hundred years ago almost everybody (not one person like me) had the common sense and the nerve to condemn pornography as filth. Now we have it everywhere, and child pornography, the spinoff of adult porn, is all the rage in many quarters.

Speaking of times past, remember some of the images that were considered in the area of impropriety? Kissing on film, deception of people of different “races” in a marriage, And then there was this one lady that got arrested for indecent exposure for this bathing suit. So unacceptably suggestive and lustful.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Pornography is as old as civilization itself. Pornography has been found as rock art and venus figurines. Modern pornography came about in the Victorian era. There was lots of pornography available 100 years ago, as there was a huge demand for it.

Many adults enjoy looking at other adults engaged in sexual activities.

Child pornography is a criminal offence and a depravity. It is a depravity because it violates a childs right to life, liberty and safety. It is a depravity to look at it, as it re-victimizes the child every time someone observes the offending material.

Comparing child pornography to adult pornography is like comparing boxing to beating someone to death.

Listen to yourself.

You get to decide that child pornography is a depravity but adult pornography is just fine?

Who made you the pope of morality?

 

[Charlemagne_III]

I wish…

But with respect, you are still not answering the question. You are complaining about what you seem to think is extreme pornography. But you are not in any way explaining what that is. If you want to ban something, then simply waving an airy hand in the air and suggesting that everyone will know what you mean is simply not good enough.

Where is the line that you want dividing that which is acceptable and that which is not?

I refer you to an earlier post. I’m not going to write a manual here of what pornography is and what it is not. Do you think I am so silly as to take on that responsibility all by myself?

As I said earlier, as recently as 60 years ago Hollywood and society at large knew what was acceptable and what was not. Standards were set in place by those considered trustworthy to set them, and they were religiously followed. If it could be done once before, it could be done again.

The corrupted hedonists don’t have to win every round in the battle for civilization.

Pornography should be fought like any other disease, not as a right to be sick in mind and body. A civilization that could arrange a lunar landing should still be crafty enough to combat and destroy sexual lunacy.