Should graphic pornography be banned?

[987mk]

So how do you know a great many adult film fornicators are not drawn to younger and younger partners by child pornography (which they doubtless have more access to than the general public), and finally become pedophiles to try it on for themselves?

How does all that not harm society? The devil is in the details.

The onus is actually on you to prove that pornography can turn adults into pedophiles.

Your wild suggestion is no different that someone making the claim;

’ Chastity and refusing to allow priest to marry turns them into pedophiles.’

 

[edwest2]

Graphic pornography was banned in America until the middle of the last century. Since then, it has flooded our culture along with many other symptoms of the the decline of Christianity (ban on prayer in the schools, abortion rights, same-sex marriage, etc.)

Should censorship be restored? Does anyone believe it could happen legally and would the public accept it? Why or why not?

Is there among Catholics a sinking feeling that our civilization is lost to the hedonists and moral relativists, and that no government action can or should be taken to reclaim the ban on pornography?

In the matter of pornographic movies, how is this to be distinguished from prostitution, since in both cases the actors are paid for sexual activity?

How many human lives have been sullied and/or destroyed by addiction to pornography?

“Yes, we did produce a near perfect Republic. But will they keep it, or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom. Material abundance without character is the surest way to destruction.” Thomas Jefferson

Self-discipline needs to be instilled in all children. The word Controversy needs to be banned. It should be replaced by a clear “this is right and this is wrong.” At least for Christians. This country is not better off since Playboy launched in December 1953 and began promoting the “Playboy Philosophy” which was basically sex is for pleasure and began the separation between sex and married love and life.

I watched what happened at the turning point in 1968. The Church was attacked from within and without for upholding its ban on artificial contraception. Then, just a few years later, “Adult bookstores” sprang up everywhere. This cost millions in paying prostitutes, photographers, filmmakers, printers and distributors. No one woke up one day and said we NEED this. The pornographers had high-priced lawyers who told “religious nuts” that they had the First Amendment right to do this. And the PLANNED addictions followed. Hippies and anarchists called illegal and dangerous drugs cool. And if you wanted to live with your girlfriend and have sex with her, you were suddenly free.

No. You were now a slave to your flesh, encouraged by underground newspapers and underground comix. We got FREEDOM !! Authority didn’t matter. Heartbroken parents saw their sons and daughters living in sin. And if anybody dared question their ‘alternative lifestyle,’ you got “Leave us alone! We’re grown adults! We’ll live how we want!”

The non-comformists were highly conformist. My Hippie friends grew their hair to the regulation length, wore the regulation clothes and spoke fluent Hippie-speak. Outsiders had successfully influenced too many to accept these “freedoms” because they were legal, in the case of porn, or demand other things, like marijuana, becoming legal, which is vigorously promoted here.

The internet cannot be censored is not true. It is a fact that all communications media are strictly monitored by increasingly efficient automatic and human intelligence assets. If you’re hiding something, don’t mention it here or anywhere on the internet. You will be flagged, tagged and, if necessary, end up being classified at a certain risk level.

Graphic pornography should be banned. The fake idea that it’s art or worthwhile expression is a lie. It is designed for one purpose - to encourage a wrong view of what human sexuality is supposed to be.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Christians get a bad name because small fringe groups try to control the what the population does out of moral outrage, which actually hurts their argument and cause more than it helps. A cogent argument about why people should abstain is better than calling for a full out ban.

Just my thoughts…

I don’t agree. Arguments accomplish nothing, more hot air.

If it’s legal to ban the production of hard core drugs which destroy the body, it should be just as legal to ban the production of hard core porn, which destroys the spirit.

Cogent arguments about taking drugs will no more stop drug addiction than cogent arguing about pornography will stop the decline into sexual barbarism.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

The onus is actually on you to prove that pornography can turn adults into pedophiles.

No sir, the onus is on you to prove pornography doesn’t contribute to turning adults into pedophiles. I have common sense on my side. What do you have on yours?

All the sexual perversions are closely allied by the fact that they are perversions, and you can easily slide from one perversion into another once you get comfortable with sleaze.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Self-discipline needs to be instilled in all children. The word Controversy needs to be banned. It should be replaced by a clear “this is right and this is wrong.” Period. At least for Christians. This country is not better off since Playboy launched in December 1953 and began promoting the “Playboy Philosophy” which was basically sex is for pleasure and began the separation between sex and married love and life.

I watched what happened at the turning point in 1968. The Church was attacked from within and without for upholding its ban on artificial contraception. Then, just a few years later, “Adult bookstores” sprang up everywhere. This cost millions in paying prostitutes, photographers, filmmakers, printers and distributors. No one woke up one day and said we NEED this. The pornographers had high-priced lawyers who told “religious nuts” that they had the First Amendment right to do this. And the PLANNED addictions followed. Hippies and anarchists called illegal and dangerous drugs cool. And if you wanted to live with your girlfriend and have sex with her, you were suddenly free.

NO. You were now a slave to your flesh, encouraged by underground newspapers and underground comix. We got FREEDOM !!! Authority didn’t matter. Heartbroken parents saw their sons and daughters living in sin. And if anybody dared question their ‘alternative lifestyle,’ you got “Leave us alone!!! We’re grown adults!!! Well live how we want!!!”

The non-comformists were highly conformist. My Hippie friends grew their hair to the regulation length, wore the regulation clothes and spoke fluent Hippie-speak. Outsiders had successfully influenced too many to accept these “freedoms” because they were legal, in the case of porn, or demand other things, like marijuana, becoming legal, which is vigorously promoted here.

The internet cannot be censored is a lie. It is a fact that all communications media are strictly monitored by increasingly efficient automatic and human intelligence assets. If you’re hiding something, don’t mention it here or anywhere on the internet. You will be flagged, tagged and, if necessary, end up being classified at a certain risk level.

Graphic pornography should be banned. The fake idea that it’s art or worthwhile expression is a lie. It is designed for one purpose - to encourage a wrong view of what human sexuality is supposed to be.

Peace,
Ed

If Catholic Answers should award an annual prize for best post, this one should win.

 

[Amandil]

No sir, the onus is on you to prove pornography doesn’t contribute to turning adults into pedophiles. I have common sense on my side. What do you have on yours?

All the sexual perversions are closely allied by the fact that they are perversions, and you can easily slide from one perversion into another once you get comfortable with sleaze.

Pornography-- A Gateway to Human Trafficking

FBI.gov 2011 report on sex trafficking.

covenanteyes.com sourced article on the connection between porn and sex trafficking.

And this is based upon a simple bing search.

Huff post article reporting on U.K. study that found that pornographic images leads to similar brain found in alcohol and drug addicts.

Another huffpost article detailing another UK study elaborating on porn addiction and the effect on the brain.

For those who put such faith in science, you’d think that such evidence that porn definitely has a deleterious effect on men and society as a whole, that such a thing would be a no-brainer.

I guess if the science doesn’t fit your views, you can always disavow the science.

 

[GamingBro]

It should not be banned.It is my right or anyone’s right to watch it or not.

 

[JamesATyler]

I think the lesson here is that human government does not prevail against the gate of hell. Jesus said that the gate of hell will not prevail against his Church. I believe there are many people in our nation and around the world that are deeply unhappy but cannot find their way to the joy that our God offers.

Yes, nation after nation bows before the enemy. Is America as strong as the Church? And look at the great tribulations that the Church has had over the centuries. There has been evil both within and without. Yet the Church still persists and still teaches right from wrong. Look at America. “The greatest superpower the world has ever known.” Yet in its short span it is far more degraded than the Church. Sure there are many people that celebrate it because they do not know right from wrong. And there are many other people that are very unhappy with America and cannot take solace in Jesus’s Church because they have not yet found it.

Jesus did not proclaim that America will withstand the gate of hell. It is transforming. And there is incredible pressure on the Church to transform. From both within and without. By individuals and by world powers. But Jesus does not lie. If he said that the gate of hell will not prevail against the Church then it will not.

 

[JapaneseKappa]

Pornography-- A Gateway to Human Trafficking

FBI.gov 2011 report on sex trafficking.

covenanteyes.com sourced article on the connection between porn and sex trafficking.

And this is based upon a simple bing search.

Huff post article reporting on U.K. study that found that pornographic images leads to similar brain found in alcohol and drug addicts.

Another huffpost article detailing another UK study elaborating on porn addiction and the effect on the brain.

For those who put such faith in science, you’d think that such evidence that porn definitely has a deleterious effect on men and society as a whole, that such a thing would be a no-brainer.

I guess if the science doesn’t fit your views, you can always disavow the science.

I was excited because I thought your FBI link might have some hard hitting numbers that would make me re-evaluate my position. Unfortunately it didn’t even contain the word pornography.

It’s easy to find opinion pieces drawing all sorts of nefarious connections with the porn business, its much harder to find substantial data. For example, I have no doubt that people who engage in sex trafficking will also work in pornography production. But how prevalent is the problem? What percentage of porn proceeds go to sex traffickers? Your links certainly don’t provide an answer; they’re just writing scary stories to sell newspapers or attract donations by creating a sense of urgency.

I also have no doubt that it can be addictive. But I will point out that alcohol also causes brain changes similar to those found in alcohol addicts, and very few people are calling for a new prohibition. In other words, addiction by itself is not a sufficient condition for a ban.

Also, just a curious aside: mothers experience effects similar to those induced by cocaine when viewing their babies faces. So while its easy to make scary stories out of comparisons to drugs, “similarity to drugs” is hardly a solid basis for banning practices.

 

[Bradski]

Art as a rule does not show lusty or loving ‘intercourse’. There is your line.

I wasn’t aware that there were any rules when it came to art. You seem to want to impose some. But let’s go with it. Everything short of actual intercourse is OK with you. That’s the line you want to draw? Somehow I think not.

I don’t believe it’s at all necessary to have everyone agree on what is pornographic. Every industry can simply introduce standards that it will hold to and does not have to consult the public to uphold those standards.

So no-one need consult you, or the church or anyone else. But I’m not sure what you mean by ‘industry’. As I said before, there is a continuum of what people might consider acceptable in every possible medium. Literature, music, film, paintings, cartoons, sculpture, video, advertising, TV, blogs, newspapers, magazines, theatre etc etc. Do you have someone in mind from each of those mediums, plus many more, that might take on the responsibility for deciding what you personally can access?

The thing is, you don’t want me to decide on your behalf. And I would rather you didn’t on mine. Because what we each find acceptable is utterly different. So who should decide for you? Well, no big surprise that the answer is…you. And no prizes for guessing the best person for deciding as to what I should have access.

I would speculate that there probably already is an underground market for it.

Are you kidding me?

And could everyone please bear in mind that a person taking a position against banning something does not necessarily mean that that person is actively in favour of promoting whatever is being discussed.

We seem to get this a lot. Abortion is a classic example when anyone who argues against making it illegal is described as ‘pro abortion’ as if they actively want to promote abortion as a good thing.

Personally, I don’t find much to enjoy in 99% of what is classed as pornography and I am far from wanting to encourage anyone to watch it. But…I will man the battlements and defy anyone who says that he or she can decide what I can and cannot watch.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Not ‘inherently wrong’? Do you mean law-wise or from what angle?

I don’t consider the viewing of pornography a moral infraction by itself. It’s not a legal infraction here in the USA either.

Because you were responding to another’s posts with talk of justifying one’s position on the matter with facts rather than observation alone.

I’m talking of methods of convincing others to feel the same way. There have been many statements here speaking of feelings of disgust and shame of pornography. For some one that does not have those feelings of disgust or shame statements discouraging pornography on the basis of those feelings that are not present will not be very moving.

I suppose I am saying in a round-about way that moral-higher-reasoning is a good enough way to put one’s point across…

An adult looking at pictures and videos of adults that have consented to have sex, have it recorded, and shared isn’t a moral issue for me. I asked some of the Christians in my life; it’s not a moral issue for them either.

This is a trust I have been made aware of before: medaille.co.uk

I saw it before. It doesn’t appear to be related.

 

[987mk]

No sir, the onus is on you to prove pornography doesn’t contribute to turning adults into pedophiles.

All right then.

The onus is on you to prove that chastity doesn’t contribute to turning Catholic Priests into pedophiles.

I guess I’ll just have a seat and now you have to do all the work proving my claim incorrect.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

All right then.

The onus is on you to prove that chastity doesn’t contribute to turning Catholic Priests into pedophiles.

I guess I’ll just have a seat and now you have to do all the work proving my claim incorrect.

The onus is on you to prove that chastity is a perversion.

I won’t hold my breath while you try that.

 

[edwest2]

If Catholic Answers should award an annual prize for best post, this one should win.

Thanks. blush

Ed

 

[Cimachol]

But it needs to cause some harm to be banned. The government doesn’t take away all our privileges and give them back once they are deemed “morally right,” it takes away privileges that are deemed harmful.

I believe that the harm pornography causes is social pollution. I would prefer to live in a society in which pornography is not readily available, just as I prefer a society in which prostitution is not readily available. I believe that pornography, which would be bad enough if all it caused were the use of pornography, also contributes to a loss of sexual morals, which leads to higher rates of unplanned pregnancy among people not prepared to be parents, higher STD rates, and broken marriages, for starters.

I don’t think it would be good for me, my family or society to have prostitutes walking up and down the street “advertising” on a daily basis, so I support the fact that prostitution is illegal. I believe societies have a right to set standards for what they will or won’t tolerate based on moral concerns.

Of course, societies do need to consider the possibility and expense of implementing enforcing such laws, and so far I’ve not heard any realistic proposals put forth on how to ban pornography.

I think your last point describes capitalism, not pornography, if you consider services other than sex. We are sold as commodities to advertisers. Athletes are traded, bought, and sold like commodities. Pornography is not unique in treating people like products, the important factor is that people should be free to participate in the pornography market. I don’t think you can make an argument that pornography is somehow fundamentally exploitative (i.e. that people are not fairly compensated) only that a particular pornography market is currently exploitative.

I think most people would agree that being paid to flip burgers or score touchdowns is different from being paid to have sex. Selling one’s skills is one thing; selling sex is another, however skillful one might be at it.

 

[edwest2]

It should be banned since it degrades the people involved. Women especially, and men, are being exploited like never before on a system that never existed in human history - the internet.

Human Dignity upholds civilization, Relativism does not.

Ed

 

[Charlemagne_III]

So no-one need consult you, or the church or anyone else. But I’m not sure what you mean by ‘industry’. As I said before, there is a continuum of what people might consider acceptable in every possible medium. Literature, music, film, paintings, cartoons, sculpture, video, advertising, TV, blogs, newspapers, magazines, theatre etc etc. Do you have someone in mind from each of those mediums, plus many more, that might take on the responsibility for deciding what you personally can access?

The thing is, you don’t want me to decide on your behalf.

No, I wouldn’t want an atheist deciding on my behalf because there is nothing in atheism that offers moral authority of any kind. Atheism is just the denial of God. It is never the affirmation of a particular moral code, since atheism is intrinsically relativistic and bends with the prevailing wind, which is often as not from the underworld.

As to consulting anyone for advice on what constitutes pornography, I think consulting common sense is always the best avenue. Some people have it and some don’t. Consult the people who seem to have a distinct moral code along with common sense.

For example, in the 1970s I would not have consulted Linda Lovelace.

 

[Cirdan_XII]

That is correct.

I do think, however, that pornographers tend to invoke their 1st Amendment rights.

I think there was a movie about this. I never saw it but read some of the reviews.

I think it was about Larry Flint or some guy like that trying to explain to the Supreme Court that his pornograpgy was art. I think in the end he won.

 

[Cirdan_XII]

Let’s start with the depiction of genital penetration. That’s specific enough and I don’t know anyone who would say that is not pornography.

unless it’s a medical textbook?

 

[inocente]

Is there among Catholics a sinking feeling that our civilization is lost to the hedonists and moral relativists, and that no government action can or should be taken to reclaim the ban on pornography?

A while ago in a shop I queued behind a boy in his mid-teens. When he got to the front of the queue, he handed a porno magazine to the middle-aged lady sales assistant.

As she rang it up, she smiled at him and said “How’s your mother José, is her leg any better?”

Apparently, Mediterranean Catholic countries don’t hold with Puritan values .