I also rarely seem this discussion applied to other sexual sins in our culture. Premaritial sex is widespread (just look at any tv show sitcom). Yet no seems to care, but a second there is a character even alluded to be gay, everyone freaks out. We have divorce and remarried (adultery by Catholic standard) for a very long time. Don’t see that talk about how divorce and remarriage culture has already redefined civil marriage versus sacramental marriage. Contraception use is rampant including in other Christian denominations as morally neutral. All of this sin, not really talked about, not discussed, not really mentioned as disordered. But those ‘gays.’ Every single time.
I mean this thread has multiple posts basically calling gay people the worst of the worst, equivalent to murderers, massive broad-stroking generalizations (often the most negative assumptions and lack of charity), and self-congratulation patting on the back for ‘how Catholic’ they are. If any gay/ssa person who wasn’t committed read this read and others on this forum which other have a complete lack of charity towards gay/ssa people (there is also another thread equating gays to pedophiles), they would see no love or why they could be Catholic. That is an issue, the teaching is not wrong, the approach both and outreach has been a tremendous failure. Add on that we have to be aware of the harm and sins of other Christian denominations who constantly do cause harm to gay people and do not make the distinction between acts and inclination while basically idolatrizing marriage at times (and downplaying celibacy).
This requires us to be patient, compassionate, and very careful with our wording with detailed explanation. A perfect example is the number of Christians who say homosexuality is a sin or a choice who never clarify that they are referring to acts not state of attraction which makes gay people feel impossible of being Christians since they view themselves as already sinning simply for being tempted. Heck I know Catholics who believe that homosexuality is a choice and rarely if ever make a distinction between the acts and orientation. This has lead to people losing their faith and at worse, some taking their own lives because they lost all hope and felt they’re already damned anyway. So with all this in mind, it’s not that much to ask to take an extra few minutes at most to be precise and concise and add clarification when needed.
You also didn’t really address the other person’s point. The fact is that a large portion of the world including many Catholics do not understand the philosophical meaning of objectively disorders. It is extremely common for gay/ssa people to be viewed as having a personal moral failing for having this particular cross to the point that they feel afraid to be open about up knowing that there is a strong likelihood for discrimination and hostility in certain Christian circles (including some who have faced such hostility who were only guilty of not being closeted enough or alluding suspicions of their sexual orientation). temptation to sin is disordered. The fact is all temptation to sin is disordered but for some reason I only see that language when the talk is about homosexuality. Rarely do I see people take time to actually detail and explain it out. But I see all too often arm chair psychologist bs claiming to know the reason or cause for the attraction.
Thank you AT9009,
I probably shouldn’t have wrote this thread. But I just didn’t think people should associate with bad company, grave sinners who do not try and live a holy life, who show no signs of repentance.
I do feel a lot of compassion for people who struggle with homosexuality. But yes, homosexuality is a serious sin. I don’t think the people who do this are entirely at fault. But, people are not born homosexual. However, I believe in something like generational curses, or just simply particular demons who really tempt some families to a particular type of sin. FYI, There are demons for every sin on an examination of conscience, and there are like 400 grave sins (never did count them all), but homosexual sex is one on the list.
I am a sinner too, I am not casting stones. I really love homosexual people. Like I said, I have had many friends who were closet homosexuals in my life, and I loved them all, and I still love them. **These people need to understand though that all sin can be conquered through constant prayer, grace of regular reception of the sacraments, and a penitential life. ** So no need to despair, no one should loose hope that sin can not be conquered. I know many heterosexual men who have conquered their lust toward women, and they live perfectly chaste. I have, conquered my sexual sins. I don’t see anything wrong with people who are repentant of the homosexual sin or heterosexual sin. We should be patient with those who are on their way to repentance. Heck, I needed a lot of patience and encouragement to get over my grave sins too, and I have my weaknesses.
Yes, it is absolutely true, that people who struggle with the homosexual sin are not sinning simply for being attracted to the same sex. Just like I am not sinning for being attracted to women, lust is a sin though. I don’t take sexual pleasure when I look at women, homosexuals should do the same. I don’t look at a woman and desire her (Covet, breaking 9th commandment), homosexuals should not look at me and desire me sexually. Both homosexual and heterosexual lust is grave,
any sexually pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes So yes, like you say contraceptives are a grave sin too, masturbation is grave, lust is grave, covetousness is grave, adultery is grave, fornication is grave.
