Should protestants find their way into the CC now that they know that their religion was made from men who rebelled against the Church

[JRKH]

I don’t think this is true, gcnuss. The original use of the term “protestare” in the Latin meant to stand up for what one believed, over and against the Catholic Church. When a person “disagrees” with Catholic doctrine they are standing up for what they believe over and against the Catholic view (protesting). They may not think about it that way - in fact, I think most of them dont’, but that does not change the facts.

Trying to apply this term to non-catholic Christians today is stretching the credibility fo the term The Church recognizes this and addresses it in the Catechism under “Wounds to Unity” and “Towards Unity” which are both contained under “The Church is One”
Para 818 is particularly pointed in saying:
“However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities… [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”
So - while the term Protestant is used as designation of the origin of the groups, those currently in those groups are probably NOT protesting the Catholic Church in any way resembling those in the 16th century.
ONe MIGHT properly call “protestant” those Catholics who abandon the faith for another faith community, but certainly not those who are either a) born and raised in a gvien community, or b) initially unchurched and brought to Christ and baptism through one of these communities.

Peace
James

 

[wisdomseeker]

Yes, but they do this because they have bought into falsehoods. Some of them have been taught that Catholics are not even Christian. Obviously, they do NOT understand the Teachings of the Church if they do this.

I think you misunderstand my posting. Obviously if they did understand the CC, htey probably would be in her. what i am saying is that tehy know that the CC exists.

 

[Cat]

But the point is, is it not the Command of Christ that all men must be in His Church and not outside of her authority? is it not more a matter of believe and accept what the Church teaches, instead of trying to justify their unbelief? are we to be justified for rejecting her teachings? when teh Church first begun, were there justification for those who rejected the teachings of the Apostles? why is it different today?

It’s different today because the Catholic Church recognizes the doctrine of “invincible ignorance.”

Paragraph1793 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church says, “If–on the contrary—the ignorance is invincible, or hte moral subject is not responsible for his erroneous judgement, the evil committed by the person cannot be imputed to him. It remains no less an evil, a privation, a disorder. One must therefore work to correct the errors of moral conscience.”

So, wisdomseeker, IMO, you have the right idea, but you are putting the responsibility solely on the Protestant to somehow overcome their “invincible ignorance” and find their way back to the Catholic Church.

It seems to me that the responsibility, according to the Catechism, lies with the CATHOLIC CHURCH, including you and me, to work to help the Protestants overcome their invincible ignorance.

Make sense?

 

[JRKH]

I think you misunderstand my posting. Obviously if they did understand the CC, htey probably would be in her. what i am saying is that tehy know that the CC exists.

They know that many things exist. We know that many things exist. Knowing the existance of something does not equate to being convicted of the legitimacy of the thing.

Peace
James

 

[Cat]

They know that many things exist. We know that many things exist. Knowing the existance of something does not equate to being convicted of the legitimacy of the thing.

Peace
James

Kind of like global warming.

No, I’m serious! A lot of us do not trust the notion of “global warming” because we don’t trust those who are telling us that it exists. These same scientists are the ones who do not condemn abortion, or who advocate forced population reduction through artificial birth control, or who insist that we can stop using gasoline and use “alternative energy sources” instead (ignoring the fact that energy is required to produce these "alternative energy sources.).

When people lie repeatedly, we tend not to trust them.

Same thing for Protestants and Catholics. And I’m not talking about the sex scandals, because all good Protestants know that the same thing happens all the time in their own churches.

I can testify, with all sincerity, that one of the reasons why many evangelical and fundamental Protestants do NOT trust Catholics is because Catholics drink alcohol and gamble (bingo) right in their church buildings! Many evangelical and fundamental Protestant groups consider these two actions sins.

It doesn’t MATTER that Catholics consider drinking alcohol and gambling okie dokie!! That means nothing! To Protestants, these things are sins, and those who do them repeatedly with no apologies are SINNERS, and therefore, not possessing any Christian authority, since the Bible makes it clear that sinners will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

I identify with evangelicals and fundamentalists in these two issues. The biggest stumbling block to me converting to Catholicism was not Mary, or the Pope, or the statues…it was alcohol. I still find its use repugnant, and I have a very, very difficult time seeing it as “okie dokie.”

I know it will never happen. But I can’t help but think that if Catholics seriously wanted to see evangelicals and fundamentalists look into the Catholic Church, the Church would drop all use of alcohol and bingo in the church buildings, and urge the faithful to drop use of alcohol and gambling outside of the Church as well. Wow, would that ever make a statement to evangelicals and fundamentalists. I think a lot of them would actually enter the doors of a Catholic Church if this ever happened.

But it won’t happen, and so, for the sake of Bud and B-19, evangelicals will continue to miss out on the True Church of Jesus Christ.

I hope that Bud is really worth it.

If you disagree with my post, think for a moment. What I am saying would be echoed by thousands of evangelical and fundamental Protestant Christians. I am not just voicing Cat’s weird viewpoint. I am providing you with a window into the soul of those who refuse to even consider the Catholic Church. Yes, there are exceptions. Many evangelicals have eased up their rigid stance on alcohol, and many now enjoy a glass of wine or a beer in their homes. But many haven’t. I am telling you that this kind of thing hurts the credibility of the Catholic Church in their eyes. I am speaking the truth.

 

[josephback]

What do you all say?

I agree with Cat. Your question presupposes that most Protestants know their “Reformation” was a revolt - which is simply not true. Martin Luther, John Calvin, and others are taught as heroes in the Protestant world, -and with no (name removed by moderator)ut from the Catholic side why should they think differently? Any Lutheran, Baptist, or Methodist who is truly seeking God and learns the truth will make their way into the apostolic faith. Most do not know they have been taught lies though- they need prayer.

 

[josephback]

I guess what i am saying is just that. they refuse to believe what the Church teaches.

This is true of those who understand but still reject. Not all truly know though. So its not always refusal.

Just out of curiosity - are you a former Protestant? I am.

 

[TrueLight]

This is true of those who understand but still reject. Not all truly know though. So its not always refusal.

Just out of curiosity - are you a former Protestant? I am.

No offense to the OP, but unless he was a non-practicing Protestant who totally didn’t understand his faith, there is no way an ex-Protestant would ask the question that was asked in the original post.

That’s why it is important to understand what someone believes.

 

[Monica4316]

What do you all say?

if they know that, yes. The problem is that many do not know. Many do not believe in a visible Church at all.

 

[gcnuss]

So do I and I can tell you that the most ignorant ones still knows and protests against the CC. they talk among themselves and everytime one group forms they go after Catholics.

I am aware of the type of people you describe here. As a Lutheran pastor, I have been attacked by certain Lutherans because I don’t buy into their anti-Catholic rants and defend Catholics as brothers and sisters in Christ. However, the vast majority of Lutherans, I believe, are not anti-Catholic but have little interest in Catholicism.

 

[wisdomseeker]

This is true of those who understand but still reject. Not all truly know though. So its not always refusal.

Just out of curiosity - are you a former Protestant? I am.

No

 

[Cat]

if they know that, yes. The problem is that many do not know. Many do not believe in a visible Church at all.

Really good point. I was raised to believe that the universal church was invisible, and that all who believed in Jesus were automatically part of it.

I was also taught that the institutions of man can never be in authority over Christians, and that includes the Pope and the Vatican. We were taught that what is visible here on earth is corrupt (the first part of TULIP is “total depravity”), and that it was the spiritual that matters.

Yes, now I realize that all this was wrong and twisted. But I didn’t know that growing up, and because I trusted and loved my teachers, I believed them without question. I had no reason to question them. OTOH, many of the Catholics that I saw lived a double life–they went to Mass on Sundays, but during the rest of the week, they lived with no recognition of God in their lives. Christ was only a “Get Out Of Hell Free Cookie” to them, or at least, that’s how it appeared to me and my Protestant brothers and sisters and family.

 

[Kristin234]

Some of the answers on here make it seem like all Protestants are just clueless and ignorant. A lot of us know about both the Catholic faith and our own faith, and the reason why we haven’t become Catholic isn’t because we do not understand the Catholic Church.

I do care and I do know what Catholicism teaches (my uncles is a Catholic Priest) and I do care about what the Orthodox Church teaches (Majority of my family are a part of the Orthodox church including my dad who is a deacon).

I have a lot of respect for both because I have grown up with both of them, however I do not agree with them on everything.

As for being taught a lie, I didn’t know that accepting Jesus as your personal savior, being a new person, living your life for Christ, humbling yourself, ministering to others, making disciples, worshiping no one but God, was all a lie…that is all my Church has ever taught me. I have never heard one anti-Catholic statement ever made in my church.

 

[waxwing]

Some of the answers on here make it seem like all Protestants are just clueless and ignorant. A lot of us know about both the Catholic faith and our own faith, and the reason why we haven’t become Catholic isn’t because we do not understand the Catholic Church.

I do care and I do know what Catholicism teaches (my uncles is a Catholic Priest) and I do care about what the Orthodox Church teaches (Majority of my family are a part of the Orthodox church including my dad who is a deacon).

I have a lot of respect for both because I have grown up with both of them, however I do not agree with them on everything.

As for being taught a lie, I didn’t know that accepting Jesus as your personal savior, being a new person, living your life for Christ, humbling yourself, ministering to others, making disciples, worshiping no one but God, was all a lie…that is all my Church has ever taught me. I have never heard one anti-Catholic statement ever made in my church.

Agree with this, although sure there are some who are ignorant of the Catholic Church, but I do think their is significant number who do in fact understand the RCC, and they’re understanding leads them to remain in the Protestant Church. Protestants are my brothers and sisters in Christ and as long as the differences in theology/history are conducted in a kind and civil way then let the discussions continue.

 

[hn160]

Am I talking about them being Protestant because they’re protesting the Catholic Church?

No.

Basic sense. If they believed how Christianity should be was within the Catholic Church, they would be Catholic. That’s not a protest, it’s just a judgement.

The Lutheran Church does not protest the Roman Catholic Church, we never called ourselves Protestant, that a charge that that the Catholic Church labeled us, We always considered ourselves as Evangelical Catholic. Our Lutheran Confession confess what The Church Is: VIII. [What Is the Church?]
1 Properly speaking, the church is the assembly of saints and true believers. However, since in this life many hypocrites and evil persons are mingled with believers, it is allowable to use the sacraments even when they are administered by evil men, according to the saying of Christ, “The scribes and Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat,” etc. (Matt. 23:2). 2 Both the sacraments and the Word are effectual by reason of the institution and commandment of Christ even if they are administered by evil men.
3 Our churches condemn the Donatists and others like them who have denied that the ministry of evil men may be used in the church and who have thought the ministry of evil men to be unprofitable and without effect.

Tappert, Theodore G.: The Augsburg Confession : Translated from the Latin. Philadelphia : Fortress Press, 2000, c1959, S. 33
As far as the Papal Office goes, Lutheran take notice of what the Pope says, but we look on him as the Bishop of Rome. The biggest problem is the Infallibility of the Pope, there is nowhere in Scripture that this is found.
It seems that the Catholics do more protesting about Lutherans than Lutherans do about Catholics when we have more in common than with Calvinist and Episcopalians.

 

[TrueLight]

m. OTOH, many of the Catholics that I saw lived a double life–they went to Mass on Sundays, but during the rest of the week, they lived with no recognition of God in their lives. Christ was only a “Get Out Of Hell Free Cookie” to them, or at least, that’s how it appeared to me and my Protestant brothers and sisters and family.

That was my experience as well. Which underlines the point that the best way to evangelize to protestants, especially Evangelicals is by living a Christian life.

When I found this website and saw Catholics who love Jesus, discussing their faith, it blew my mind.

 

[josephback]

No offense to the OP, but unless he was a non-practicing Protestant who totally didn’t understand his faith, there is no way an ex-Protestant would ask the question that was asked in the original post.

That’s why it is important to understand what someone believes.

I just thought he seemed hostile to Protestants. This would happen if he came out of Protestantism.

 

[john_aurelius]

My question is why would they feel that they have to “come home” to the CC.

After all, they are just as Christian by virtue of their baptism in Christ and use of the Trinitarian formula.

This morning, I went to a Communion service of the Presbyterian Church of Australia. It was just as spiritual and moving in its Liturgy of the Word and the Lord’s Supper.

Maybe it would be better to see other Christian denominations as allies rather than at best competitors and worst heretics who are damning their congregations for eternity.

There is only One Church, for a long time we have recognised the Orthodox as part of this same church, surely we have enough graciousness to realise that other non-Catholic denominations can be just as Christian as the CC?

Why do we need organisational unity? just as evangelical theology overlaps several denominations, and Charismatic theology also, can’t CHRISTIAN theology, love and virtues also?

 

[TrueLight]

I just thought he seemed hostile to Protestants. This would happen if he came out of Protestantism.

I think I will always be protective of Protestants because I feel there is a great misunderstanding of Protestants on boards like these.

But then again, I was greatly misinformed about Catholics and put them into two categories: the majority were not “serious” Catholics. The only serious Catholics were nuns and priests, and second a small remnant of well-meaning, but misled laity in need of conversion.

 

[JRKH]

Some of the answers on here make it seem like all Protestants are just clueless and ignorant. A lot of us know about both the Catholic faith and our own faith, and the reason why we haven’t become Catholic isn’t because we do not understand the Catholic Church.

I do care and I do know what Catholicism teaches (my uncles is a Catholic Priest) and I do care about what the Orthodox Church teaches (Majority of my family are a part of the Orthodox church including my dad who is a deacon).

I have a lot of respect for both because I have grown up with both of them, however I do not agree with them on everything.

As for being taught a lie, I didn’t know that accepting Jesus as your personal savior, being a new person, living your life for Christ, humbling yourself, ministering to others, making disciples, worshiping no one but God, was all a lie…that is all my Church has ever taught me. I have never heard one anti-Catholic statement ever made in my church.

Sorry if we have come across harsh…and though I suspect you have a somewhat better than average understanding of the Catholic and orthodox faith, I know there are many Protestants ourt there who are not “anti-catholic”.
Actually much of what has been said has been in defence of protestants because the Op is so poorly written and i thought a bit insulting.

I like to watch the program, The Journey Home" on EWTN, and by the comments of guests who come from protestant backgrounds, it certainly is true that many, if not most, do not openly bash the Catholic church. Now whether they actually know what the Church teaches (as well as you do) or not is another matter…

Peace
James