Should protestants find their way into the CC now that they know that their religion was made from men who rebelled against the Church

[JRKH]

Is the CC still on the mission when she first started which is evangelizing all into the Church or not?

Of course she is, but this has nothing to do with the thread you started which is NOT evangelization but a false and erroneous blanket statement which does NOT serve to evangelize.

Peace
Jease

 

[ProVobis]

Protestants found their “way” into the CC before Vatican II. Their influence is very strong, I understand, despite the Council of Trent.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Should they or should they not WHAT

If and when an individual, or group of individuals, comes to the realization (knows) that the communion they are in is not the fullness of Truth and that the Catholic Church IS the True Church of Christ, then yes they they should find their way here.

However there is no way we can presume that “prtoestants” (as a group) already know these things.

You see the problem with your statement is that you make a assumption not in evidence.
Should “protestants…now that they know…” This assumes that protestants now know what you claim they now know - this has not been proven even within the context of this thread.

A Protestant could just as easily write, “Should Catholics find their way into the Protestant reformed Church now that they know that their religion was made from men who corrupted the true Church.”
Think how you would respond to such a statement.
You would say “I know no such thing”, and proceed to give reasons why this assertion is wrong. Thus proving that the person who made such a sweeping assertion is wrong in assuming that “Catholics” “Know” what he asserts they know…

You are making the same sweeping error

Peace
James

All the protestants I know say just that. obviously this shows that they do know. it is hte lack of believe that keeps them where they are.
Dont be angry. no one here is trying to make you angry.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Of course she is, but this has nothing to do with the thread you started which is NOT evangelization but a false and erroneous blanket statement which does NOT serve to evangelize.

Peace
Jease

I guess what i am saying is just that. htey refuse to believe what hte Church teaches.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Protestants found their “way” into the CC before Vatican II. Their influence is very strong, I understand, despite the Council of Trent.

Thank you.

 

[TinaG]

Hi!

Wisdomseeker, I would invite you to turn the question aroound and see what assumptions you find. You need to look at your assumptions to understand why Protestants might protest your statement.

Should Catholics find their way out of the CC now that they know that their religion was made from men who rebelled against the Church?

I am not debating the statement in quotes (or anything, actually); it is more that I am objecting to the formulation of your question.

-Tina “Have I Stopped Beating My Dog?” G

 

[JonNC]

The principle is the same. they are all based on the same idea. taht Jesus did not build a Church or that she apostasized. or that the CC has no authority. that is protesting.

Again, you are assuming things not in evidence.

Let’s start with “protesting”. The protestation was against government - at the Second Diet at Speyer in 1529, not per se against the Catholic Church. The term protestant today, in that sense, the protesting sense, bears little resemblance to its origin. It is a general collective term for western non-Catholic Christians, most of whom, I daresay would understand very little of any of the things you are speaking of in your post.

Most Christians know that Christ built a Church, but they do not define Church as Catholics do.

Most knowledgeable non-Catholics would not say the CC apostasized, as that means there is nothing of the Christian faith there. Certainly the Catholic Church bears the marks of the Christian faith - word and sacrament. Many others would probably ask what does apostasized means.

Most would not recognize authority as an issue. Its simply not something they think about, except, for some, regarding their own congrgation or communion. Personally, I recognize the authority of Rome over Catholics, and the authority Rome played in the pre-schism Church, but find the current definition troubling, just as the Orthodox do.

Jon

 

[Cat]

Is “evangelical protestantism” actually an official denomination, or are you using that term in the broader sense which includes all of non Catholicism?

No, it is not an official denomination, but rather, it is a term used to describe a number of Protestant denominations that support a certain set of beliefs and practices.

The National Association of Evangelicals has posted a Statement of Faith that sums up what evangelical Protestant churches believe. Here is a link to that Statement of Faith.

nae.net/about-us/statement-of-faith

The denominations that usually consider themselves evangelical are most Baptists, the Evangelical Free churches, Evangelical Covenant churches, the Assemblies of God and other Pentecostal churches, the Christian churches, Churches of Christ (not United Church of Christ), and Disciples of Christ, and many of the non-denominational fellowships and churches.

There are other groups of Protestants, e.g, the Mainline Protestants are the older denominations, and most of these do not consider themselves “evangelical.” These denominations include Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, Reformed, Congregational, United Church of Christ, Episcopalians (and Anglicans).

Another group would be the Fundamentalist Protestant denominations. Many evangelical Protestant denominations accept the Five Basic Fundamentals of the Christian faith and so could be considered “Fundamentalists.” The difference is that Fundamentalist denominations are generally “separatist” that do not associate or cooperate with Christians outside of their denomination. Evangelicals do associate and cooperate with Christians outside of their denomination.

EVERYTHING that I have said above is a generalization and there are always, ALWAYS exceptions! There are Baptist denominations that are NOT evangelical! There are mainline denominations that ARE evangelical! There are Fundamentalist groups that are NOT separatists! etc. Please do not assume that my summary holds true in all situations, because it does NOT!

Also, I have left out quite a few Protestant groups, e.g., the various Pentecostal denominations other than the Assemblies of God. These denominations falls into all kinds of categories.

Also, I have left out the various ethnic Protestant denominations ,e.g., the various African American denominations. I have very little knowledge of these groups.

I have left out groups like the Friends (Quakers) and the Salvation Army, and the Mennonites. I am not sure where these groups place themselves.

I have left out the Seventh Day Adventists. This group is troublesome. Some Protestants consider it a cult, while others welcome them as a Christian group. I am not sure.

Finally, I have left out the groups that most Protestants consider “cults,’ including the LDS (Mormons), Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christian Scientist, and the Unitarians.” Sometimes I see these groups described as Protestant, but everything that I was taught growing up Protestant would say, “NO, these groups are NOT Protestant and they are not even Christian.”

I hope this is helpful to answering your question. It really has nothing to do with the topic, but perhaps it would help the OP to understand that Protestantism is much more complex than he/she apparently thinks it is.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Hi!

Wisdomseeker, I would invite you to turn the question aroound and see what assumptions you find. You need to look at your assumptions to understand why Protestants might protest your statement.

I am not debating the statement in quotes (or anything, actually); it is more that I am objecting to the formulation of your question.

-Tina “Have I Stopped Beating My Dog?” G

Except that the CC is the Church of the Apostles while protestants is formed by men who rebelled against her. teh fact is that the CC still here despite of all hte protesters. so, it only logical that those who follow anything other than the CC should find their way into the Church that their ancestors once belonged to.

 

[guanophore]

I think that most know what the Church teaches and know that she exists. It should not matter what protestant were told by their leaders.

I don’t agree with this at all. I sojourned among many and various demonimations during my years as a lapsed Catholic. I did not meet a single person who understood the Catholic faith.

Today, the information is out there.

Yes, but it takes some effort to find it, and study it. It is much easier just to believe what you have been told.

 

[guanophore]

I would contend that a large number of protestants really haven’t considered, nor do they care, what the Catholic Church teaches. They don’t care what Lutherans teach (if they’re not Lutheran), nor Orthodoxy, etc. They simply believe in the manner in which they were raised. These others are just other churches on the next block.

The notion that modern day everyday lay protestants are protestants because they want to protest the Catholic Church seems far-fetched.

Jon

This is very true, Jon. I have had many members here refuse the term “Protestant” because they insist they are not “protesting anything”.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Again, you are assuming things not in evidence.

Let’s start with “protesting”. The protestation was against government - at the Second Diet at Speyer in 1529, not per se against the Catholic Church. The term protestant today, in that sense, the protesting sense, bears little resemblance to its origin. It is a general collective term for western non-Catholic Christians, most of whom, I daresay would understand very little of any of the things you are speaking of in your post.

Most Christians know that Christ built a Church, but they do not define Church as Catholics do.

Most knowledgeable non-Catholics would not say the CC apostasized, as that means there is nothing of the Christian faith there. Certainly the Catholic Church bears the marks of the Christian faith - word and sacrament. Many others would probably ask what does apostasized means.

Most would not recognize authority as an issue. Its simply not something they think about, except, for some, regarding their own congrgation or communion. Personally, I recognize the authority of Rome over Catholics, and the authority Rome played in the pre-schism Church, but find the current definition troubling, just as the Orthodox do.

Jon

But the point is, is it not the Command of Christ that all men must be in His Church and not outside of her authority? is it not more a matter of believe and accept what the Church teaches, instead of trying to justify their unbelief? are we to be justified for rejecting her teachings? when teh Church first begun, were there justification for those who rejected the teachings of the Apostles? why is it different today?

 

[guanophore]

I think that is a rather broad definition of “protesting.” There are many protestants who, in their hearts, are following Jesus faithfully without any (or very little) knowledge of Catholic teaching. Their focus is not on what they are not but on what they understand themselves to be, i.e., faithful Christians. From their perspective, the Catholic Church is another expression of Christianity but not one that needs to be protested against. One can disagree with Catholic teachings without protesting against them.

I don’t think this is true, gcnuss. The original use of the term “protestare” in the Latin meant to stand up for what one believed, over and against the Catholic Church. When a person “disagrees” with Catholic doctrine they are standing up for what they believe over and against the Catholic view (protesting). They may not think about it that way - in fact, I think most of them dont’, but that does not change the facts.

Yet, there are some aspects of Catholic teaching that would give me difficulty. So, for now, I have the choice of being a “good” Lutheran or a “bad” (or “cafeteria”) Catholic.

A position of much greater integrity.

 

[JonNC]

This is very true, Jon. I have had many members here refuse the term “Protestant” because they insist they are not “protesting anything”.

Not in all my years as a Lutheran, even while being raised by a Lutheran pastor, did I ever see a bunch of Lutherans out in front of our neighbor Catholic Church on Reformation Day with signs and placards.

On all seriousness, though, I don’t like the term simply because it implies an inclusiveness of doctrine, and I might say origin, which doesn’t now and never has existed.

Jon

 

[wisdomseeker]

I don’t agree with this at all. I sojourned among many and various demonimations during my years as a lapsed Catholic. I did not meet a single person who understood the Catholic faith.

Yes, but it takes some effort to find it, and study it. It is much easier just to believe what you have been told.

So do I and I can tell you that the most ignorant ones still knows and protests against the CC. they talk among themselves and everytime one group forms they go after Catholics.

 

[MSSheBear]

Most Protestants I have known have an interesting view of Church history that would lead them to the conclusion that the Catholic Church invented things during the Middle Ages and that the Reformers restored Christianity to its original form. Expecting them to recognize the CC as the true Church is quite an expectation.

A lot of us evangelicals did very little thinking about the doctrines of Christianity at all. I never grasped imputed vs. infused righteousness in 16 years as an evangelical and I am still not quite sure about it.

 

[guanophore]

All the protestants I know say just that. obviously this shows that they do know.

This is a logical fallacy.

Besides, if you are just working off your small social circle of “protestants” then your reseach is somewhat biased, don’t you think?

Most of the lack of belief stems from a lack of knowlege. They don’t believe because they misunderstand.
wisdomseeker;7946351:

Dont be angry. no one here is trying to make you angry.

Sweeping generalizations that amount to accusations has that effect on people.

 

[JonNC]

But the point is, is it not the Command of Christ that all men must be in His Church and not outside of her authority? is it not more a matter of believe and accept what the Church teaches, instead of trying to justify their unbelief? are we to be justified for rejecting her teachings? when teh Church first begun, were there justification for those who rejected the teachings of the Apostles? why is it different today?

In the framework of your OP question, most non-Catholic Christians would not even reflect upon this. It is a point you and I can discuss, perhaps, but for most they already believe and accept what they have been taught, and they aren’t trying to justify that belief to you, or me, or anyone else.
I’m neither trying to justify nor defend what they believe. I’m just telling you they simply have never considered it. They frankly don’t know, in many cases, and don’t care in others.

Jon

 

[guanophore]

So do I and I can tell you that the most ignorant ones still knows and protests against the CC. they talk among themselves and everytime one group forms they go after Catholics.

Yes, but they do this because they have bought into falsehoods. Some of them have been taught that Catholics are not even Christian. Obviously, they do NOT understand the Teachings of the Church if they do this.

 

[LemonAndLime]

I would contend that a large number of protestants really haven’t considered, nor do they care, what the Catholic Church teaches. They don’t care what Lutherans teach (if they’re not Lutheran), nor Orthodoxy, etc. They simply believe in the manner in which they were raised. These others are just other churches on the next block.

The notion that modern day everyday lay protestants are protestants because they want to protest the Catholic Church seems far-fetched.

Jon

Am I talking about them being Protestant because they’re protesting the Catholic Church?

No.

Basic sense. If they believed how Christianity should be was within the Catholic Church, they would be Catholic. That’s not a protest, it’s just a judgement.