Should we watch Michael Voris?

[TMC]

I’ve never watched the videos or talks where Voris spoke of this, but I’m sure I could find it if I search a little. It was my understanding that modern day Judaism was an offshoot/descendent of the Pharisees, but I don’t know what Voris said regarding this.

In reference to the salvation of the Jews, and I don’t want to presume what you mean here, but they cannot be saved simply by remaining Jews. The Church, I don’t believe teaches this.

I have no idea what you mean about modern Jews being an offshoot of the Pharisees. I have never heard that, and I don’t think that is true.

As far as salvation, the Church does teach that Jews can be saved while remaining Jews. Voris “teaches” that God’s covenant with the Jews has been superseded, and does not apply today. The Church specifically teaches the opposite.

 

[TMC]

And, yes, also the covenent with the Jewish people did end. Jesus came to bring us a New Covenent.(New Testament). Jesus was the last and final sacrifice for sins. Jewish people can only be saved through the sacrifice of Jesus. Salvation is found only in the Catholic church and if a Jewish person is saved it is because of the Catholic church, not because they are Jewish.

The bolded text is directly contrary to the Church’s teaching. You are free to believe what you want, of course, but this is not what the Church teaches.

 

[po18guy]

Apologies but calling the BBC or, even, Reuters objective is a bit of a joke.

Indeed. I allow Catholic sources to report reliably on Catholic matters.

Still, Mr. Voris is rather acidic and lacks charity in virtually all that I have seen. He is not the mediator of all things good and holy. We have Cardinals to listen to, for but one example. Our local Ordinaries for another. Good, holy priests for a third example, orthodox Catholic apologists for a fourth source and informed, attention-paying laity for a fifth source.

 

[Petrus1]

And, yes, also the covenent with the Jewish people did end. Jesus came to bring us a New Covenent.(New Testament). Jesus was the last and final sacrifice for sins. Jewish people can only be saved through the sacrifice of Jesus. Salvation is found only in the Catholic church and if a Jewish person is saved it is because of the Catholic church, not because they are Jewish.

'This is the cup of my Blood, the Blood of the new and everlasting covenant;"

 

[Servant_of_Gregory]

Absolutely. And if you are in a diocese where those are available to you then that is excellent for you. However for those who find themselves in diocese where it is harder to find such messages taught - or even acknowledged that they exist - then Church Militant is necessary when even mainstream Catholic news won’t touch it with a barge pole. Especially if you can’t find such Catholic messages in your home. It’s fine saying that we want the truth and we want honesty and we want change … but just not from him because I don’t like him. Well we get the people we deserve sometimes and not the people we want.

We’ve had church of nice and lovely messaging and gentle pastoral nudging in this way or that and a lot of things have gotten either worse or been ignored. Now a different method needs to be tried and Voris seems to be that different method.

And again different people of course need different treatment and approaches but the hatred for the man in a lot of circles seems unfounded and rather suspect.

 

[pnewton]

MagdalenaRita:

And, yes, also the covenent with the Jewish people did end. Jesus came to bring us a New Covenent.(New Testament). Jesus was the last and final sacrifice for sins. Jewish people can only be saved through the sacrifice of Jesus. Salvation is found only in the Catholic church and if a Jewish person is saved it is because of the Catholic church, not because they are Jewish.

'This is the cup of my Blood, the Blood of the new and everlasting covenant;"

“A servant who is born in your house or who is bought with your money shall surely be circumcised; thus shall My covenant be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.” Genesis 17:13

“Nevertheless, I will remember My covenant with you in the days of your youth, and I will establish an everlasting covenant with you.” Ezekiel 16:60

 

[TMC]

Here is the Church’s teaching on Judaism and the relationship between Catholics and Jews:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/relations-jews-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_20151210_ebraismo-nostra-aetate_en.html#6._The_Church’s_mandate_to_evangelize_in_relation_to_Judaism

It explains in detail why a “supersessionist” view (which is Voris’ position) is incorrect. A key quote

From the Christian confession that there can be only one path to salvation, however, it does not in any way follow that the Jews are excluded from God’s salvation because they do not believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah of Israel and the Son of God.

The same document, quoting both Pope Saint John Paul II and the Catechism:

“The first dimension of this dialogue, that is, the meeting between the people of God of the Old Covenant, never revoked by God … and that of the New Covenant, is at the same time a dialogue within our Church, that is to say, between the first and the second part of her Bible” (No.3). The same conviction is stated also in the Catechism of the Church in 1993: “The Old Covenant has never been revoked”

I would encourage anyone that wants to understand the Church’s teaching on Judaism to read the whole document. It goes through much of the history of Church’s relationship to Judaism and explains that the Old Covenant remains in place, and why Jews can be saved without converting.

 

[Lavenderson]

and why Jews can be saved without converting.

Wow. Just wow

 

[TMC]

Wow. Just wow

Not sure why this surprising. It has been Church teaching for a long time. If you read the document, it explains the history of the doctrine, the beliefs about Judaism in the early Church, and discusses the mystery of how Jews are saved.

 

[Crusader13]

This begs to be asked, but accept as what? As authoritative? If the authority exists in a certain clergy, then accepting that as authoritative is kind of Catholic. Accept as true? Seldom is there a question of a truth that can be known. This is why Voris is kind of a Rorschach, revealing more about the listener than the person speaking.

I mean the belief that merely because one is ordained, that he is infused with the gift of knowledge in all things Catholic. Some will accept whatever theological premise that comes out of the mouth of a priest, simply because they wear the collar. Usually, the subject of authority is then invoked and anyone who disagrees with these clergy members are called disobedient.

 

[pnewton]

Thank you. Yes, that would be a mistaken way to look at the Church. We are not required to be obedient to any and all priests who open their mouth.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Sin pointer outer in other people is not one of the Charisms for laypersons. We are to focus on our own sins, and to help those over whom we have authority (our children).

If no news agency, Catholic or otherwise, did not report the sex abuse crisis in the Church, healing can not or will not come because the secrets would continue and more lives would be harmed. I can’t even imagine the pain of a sex abuse victim. Hopefully we are praying for them as we pray for the Church, that there will be healing.

The bolded text is directly contrary to the Church’s teaching. You are free to believe what you want, of course, but this is not what the Church teaches.

The Old Covenant was fullfilled with the New Covenant. A person is not saved just because they are Jewish, anymore than a Gentile is saved just because he is a Gentile.

The main part of the Law that the Jewish people believe is salvific is the Law of Moses given to Moses on Mount Sinai. This Law, in it’s original form, posed an obligation for it to be kept in it’s entirety. There were promised rewards for keeping it and curses for not keeping it. See Exodus 24.

The specific observances of the Old Covenant, outside of the moral obligations, were revoked by the coming of Christ and were fullfilled in Him.

If the people of the Old Testament biblical times struggled with keeping the law in it’s entirety why would we expect that of the Jewish people of today?

“Let us pray that our God and Lord may illuminate their hearts, that they acknowledge Jesus Christ is the Savior of all men. Almighty and eternal God, who want that all men be saved and come to the recognition of the truth, propitiously grant that even as the fullness of the peoples enters Thy Church, all Israel be saved. Through Christ Our Lord. Amen”. Pope Benedict XVI

 

[CapitalistCatholic]

I really don’t like it when larger Catholic news sources seem to like at smaller more conservative networks like school bullies. Not inciting animosity, but it’s not really called for. CM is for those who need and want to know about the dirt in the Church. This way, a clean house, or Inquisition if you will, can begin. God Bless You All!

 

[halogirl]

Hi OP! I also recently completed RCIA and have been ‘on the team’ a little over a year. My best advice to you would be get to know the mass. Learn about the different parts and start praying rosary and novenas. Collect little bits of catholic art for your home and create a sacred space. Don’t start confusing yourself with powerful and divisive internet personalities.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Here is the Church’s teaching on Judaism and the relationship between Catholics and Jews:

This is not an official document with official teaching on Judaism. As it clearly says in it’s preface:

The text is not a magisterial document or doctrinal teaching of the Catholic Church, but is a reflection prepared by the Commission for Religious Relations with the Jews on current theological questions that have developed since the Second Vatican Council. It is intended to be a starting point for further theological thought with a view to enriching and intensifying the theological dimension of Jewish–Catholic dialogue.

and from the document:

there cannot be different paths or approaches to God’s salvation. The theory that there may be two different paths to salvation, the Jewish path without Christ and the path with the Christ, whom Christians believe is Jesus of Nazareth, would in fact endanger the foundations of Christian faith.…

It is the belief of the Church that Christ is the Saviour for all. There cannot be two ways of salvation, therefore, since Christ is also the Redeemer of the Jews in addition to the Gentiles.

 

[Crusader13]

Jews can be saved without converting.

Not sure why this surprising. It has been Church teaching for a long time. If you read the document, it explains the history of the doctrine, the beliefs about Judaism in the early Church, and discusses the mystery of how Jews are saved.

Actually, it doesn’t say how. It just sums it up very ambiguously by saying:

That the Jews are participants in God’s salvation is theologically unquestionable, but how that can be possible without confessing Christ explicitly, is and remains an unfathomable divine mystery.

I don’t think this squares with Catholic teaching prior to Vatican II and this document doesn’t do the best job of explaining salvation outside of the Church. In other related documents, such as Lumen Gentium, it expressly states the need to evangelize to non-Catholics. This belief that Jews are saved, while expressly denying the divinity of Christ is not accurate and it’s documents such as this, that cause people to reject the need of the Catholic Church. What need is there of Jesus or His Church or the sacraments, if anyone is saved simply because of an unknown divine mystery, that is not taught by the Church or scripture?

 

[Lavenderson]

It has been Church teaching for a long time.

Directly from the source you provided: “The text is not a magisterial document or doctrinal teaching of the Catholic Church”

 

[RealisticCatholic]

Just answering your title question:

No.

But that is my opinion. And as someone who tries to remain faithful to Christ, the Church, and the Holy Father, I base my decision on these.

Others may feel differently.

 

[IsaiahSpirit]

Yes, Pope Francis mentions abortion sometimes. And some bold statements.
However, most of is talking points favor those who changed from reasoned approaches on social justice to radical ones. And they use these radical changes to foster an emotionally charged narrative against those whom they formally had very similar positions.
Yet, these that change their positions to radical positions for the most part go against the very Creeds of our land with self-evident rights from Creator, like right to life.
And the air of acceptability of child killing not only mass murders helpless children by the tens of thousands world wide, it aids and abets with all the rhetoric a cloud of ambiguity, which severely hurts the consciences of the unlearned and confused.
Because they are in the image & likeness of God their psyches suffer; with the pain often anesthetized by the every day life and struggle to care for their families and, of course distractions. Many devout faithful to Sacred Tradition, Holy Scripture, and Magisterial see a ‘material’ based social justice engineering favoritism in Francis; which goes against apropos to our current needs and past Teachings of The Church. And he used to call these hard liners and unmerciful and accusers. There is a lot going on here that started all the way back to Leo xiii.
" 4. The chapters of the Encyclical that address the relationship between the civil and moral law deserve great attention because of the growing importance they are destined to have in the restoration of social life. Pastors, the faithful and people of good will, especially if they are lawmakers, are asked for a renewed and united commitment to change unjust laws that legitimize or tolerate such violence.

No effort should be spared to eliminate legalized crime or at least to limit the damage caused by these laws, but with the vivid awareness of the radical duty to respect every human being’s right to life from conception until natural death, including the life of the lowliest and the least gifted." - quote from: ADDRESS OF THE HOLY FATHER JOHN PAUL II AT THE COMMEMORATION OF THE FIFTH ANNIVERSARY OF THE ENCYCLICAL “EVANGELIUM VITAE”
Monday, 14 February 2000
~
I’m not a fan of Michael Voris because he is constantly railing at the darkness. Personally, a national Catholic Evangelist some time ago gave me his phone number, and I do what I can for his very important Sacredness of Life Apostolate.
~
Are you aware that Bishop Fulton J. Sheen said in a radio address before 1950 that there would be a crafty ‘mimic’ Church, to most would appear the same. It would loose focus on teaching the Mercy of God means letting Grace by the Power of Jesus Christ heal from sin and tendency of sin to deliver from it; ‘lukewarm’.’ It would be a kind of ‘new’ humanitarian Church complacent for the most part to massive bloodshed.
Many more things he saw and specifically said we must read the signs of the times.
And all these things have come to pass.
Peace: indescribable complete well being with God grow in you and yours with an inner harmony for the challenges & difficult times and joyful times be with you.

 

[Divine3]

I read lifesite and once in a blue moon when someone sends me CM – I might get through half of it.