Should women be treated as equals

[niceatheist]

There are plenty of books and resources online.

And there are also these places called colleges and universities. I’m not sure I’d want someone who read about engineering on the Internet designing a bridge I drove over.

The Internet is a wonderful place. It is not a place that one should rely upon as a primary source of information, particularly in scholarly and technical fields.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

I was talking about education, though there are so many definitions. Scholarly and technical fields aren’t for everyone.

 

[edwest211]

That’s for sure. A side note. I just don’t see women entering certain fields. Even with the internet, there is just a lack of interest.

 

[Pattylt]

Thank heaven as I was born in one!

I knew many girls from the Catholic high school and the percentage of them that were virgins were about the same as public high school. What was different then is that there was more shame and hiding.

And abortion? Those that could afford it went to Canada or Mexico. The rest went to Aunt Martha’s for several months as they weren’t allowed in school if visibly pregnant. There’s a sure fire way to end your education! Shaming again, yet it still didn’t work.

All of those things that were supposedly better before the commies and feminists entered our neighborhoods were already there. They just stopped being hidden…just as wife beatings began to exposed…and alcoholism.

By the way, the pill wasn’t available quite yet but condoms and diaphragms sure were.

 

[Pattylt]

What fields? The ones that still have entrenched Good Ole Boys Clubs or those that require the physical musculature of a male?

 

[niceatheist]

I can’t wait for the latest version of the Damore Hypothesis. And one wonders why women are so underrepresented in STEM fields, with such bastions of masculinity like James Damore floating around.

 

[edwest211]

On May 9, 1960, the FDA approved the pill ,

I heard, “Guys don’t gotta wear rubbers no more.”

I saw obvious alcoholics way before the (non) progressives arrived.

 

[niceatheist]

I heard, “Guys don’t gotta wear rubbers no more.”

So, in other words, as it turns out, people were having sex outside of marriage before 1960.

Truly a shocking revelation.

 

[edwest211]

Your interpretation. Not true. Guys who wanted to get married, and have sex within marriage, expected no more condoms. Thanks to the media.

 

[niceatheist]

Your interpretation. Not true. Guys who wanted to get married, and have sex within marriage, expected no more condoms. Thanks to the media.

Yes, plenty of guys didn’t have sex before marriage. But plenty of guys did. The US Army pretty much admitted as much with its training films during WWII about preventing venereal diseases and unwanted pregnancies among the locals wherever they might be stationed.

Here’s a newsflash Ed, people have sex, and they have sex before they’re married, and they have sex with other partners while they are married. It’s been long frowned upon, and certainly had legal and social consequences, but I see little evidence that there was any significant increase in promiscuity after the pill, it’s just that social mores were changing and the ol’ wink-wink-nudge-nudge became more open.

Forms of birth control have been around for thousands of years. The pill is certainly more successful at preventing pregnancies, but people have been finding all sorts of ways to prevent pregnancy before its invention.

The real problem here, as I see it, is that you probably just weren’t aware, and built up a lovely fantasy where before 1960 everyone was chaste.

 

[edwest211]

When the world realizes that sex, sex, sex is not what matters then things will get back to normal. Yes, I was there for: “Let it all hang out, man.” That openness about doing wrong. When I was a kid and a neighbor or even a stranger who was an adult said, “You should be ashamed of yourself.” I took that to heart. When adult men said to other men, “Don’t talk like that around women and children.” I knew what they meant.

Today’s false freedom about sex is promoting slavery. Slavery to the flesh. Restraint is required in so many situations, including sex. So, I encourage everyone to practice restraint, to feel appropriate shame and to encourage others about normal life. Even animals behave better and we are far above animals.

 

[niceatheist]

Throughout human history, sex has been a primary motive for a lot of good and bad things. Shakespeare’s plays were filled with references to it. There was never a “go back to” point.

 

[edwest211]

Right now, in the US, a go back to point is occurring. And being obsessive about sex is not a good thing. Life includes the good, and the good is good. Not a bunch of extremists hoping that people who are unlike them will listen.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

And what if a woman would rather be an astronomer or a business executive?

If this is something she prefers then she should do it before a family or when her family is older.

Just how is it that you propose to send people back to their traditional roles,

You can’t force people to accept the family structure as God planned it but you can pray for it and model it.

What you’re talking about isn’t merely promoting a traditional family. For it to work, you literally have to turn back the clock and start revoking political, legal and social rights for women.

Many young women today are choosing traditional family roles. Some are calling it the new sexual revolution. Rejecting the sexual revolution of the past. We don’t need to turn back any clocks, we just need to educate women. Help them to realize that there is more to life than a career.

Should I be punished because I encouraged my daughters to get an education?

No one should be punished for encouraging anyone to get an education. I am sure your daughters appreciate all you did for them.

The pill isn’t going away, and women aren’t going to give up their personal autonomy.

So, as I have read many of your posts recently, for a long time, because of your promotion of the feminist agenda, I thought I was speaking to a woman. I have come to believe you are a man. (forgive me if I am wrong)

but from a woman’s point of view, the pill is as cancerous and dangerous to a woman’s health as a pack of cigarettes. The pill might not be going away but neither will young women having strokes from taking the pill go away or the risk of cancer go away. Should a husband or father encourage his wife or daughter to take something that is dangerous?
I know many young women who are now crippled due to the pill.

And again, what are we to do with women who want to be astronauts or prime ministers?

It is fine as long as it is her choice as a single woman and if married she isn’t abandoning her family. If she is married it needs to be something that is right for her marriage and family. If it has the potential of harming their marriage then it should be discouraged.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Forms of birth control have been around for thousands of years. The pill is certainly more successful at preventing pregnancies, but people have been finding all sorts of ways to prevent pregnancy before its invention.

Because of the birth control pill, women have been taken so much more advantage of and have lost control and the ability to say, “no” when pushed in sex by a “boyfriend”. Go get on the pill is what young girls are encouraged. No longer told to protect themselves.

The greatest STD among young women is- depression.

 

[edwest211]

Very true. Just a little truth can go a long way.

 

[babochka]

Aquinas11:

Bradskii:

equality for women.

Equality of opportunity? 100% support

Or

Equality of outcome? 100% oppose

So if a man and a woman have equal opportunities to become doctors, then you’d support that. But if the outcome is that they both become doctors…?

Colour me confused.

If fewer women choose to pursue the study of medicine because they decide against the long hours that could interfere and raising their families, that should remain there choice. If medical schools decline to offer admission to women because they are afraid that they will end up getting pregnant and quit medical school or leave the practice of medicine that does not offer women equal opportunity.

 

[babochka]

niceatheist:

And again, what are we to do with women who want to be astronauts or prime ministers?

It is fine as long as it is her choice as a single woman and if married she isn’t abandoning her family. If she is married it needs to be something that is right for her marriage and family. If it has the potential of harming their marriage then it should be discouraged.

I think we need to also look closely at what sort of “abandonment of family” for the sake of a career that we consider acceptable in men. Why is it okay for a man to work 80-hour weeks, travel for work and rarely see his children? Obviously, when the children are very young, they have a stronger need for their mothers. But when they are teens? Especially boys? They need their dads. We talk so much about the importance of a father in a family, and rightfully so, but we don’t seem to have as much of a problem with men abandoning their families for the sake of a career. (The song “Cat’s in the Cradle” comes to mind.) Obviously, there are exceptions- going off to war, emergencies, necessity to work far from home in order to find any work at all, etc. Sadly, men and women both have always had to leave their children in the care of others (grandparents, etc.) to do what needs to be done to feed their children, but we should not view it as normal or acceptable for either parent to do so voluntarily.

 

[Lea101]

Why is it women need to act, be or behave like men? Is it the spirit of envy? Why do we not celebrate our womanhood?
I dont find your argument that feminists are just behaving like men encouraging. It doesn’t pull me to support the feminist movement. I am not a man

I feel like you’re purposefully ignoring what I’m actually saying just so you can parrot ready made arguments. That’s not what a conversation is.

They’re not behaving like men and they’re not ignoring their womanhood when they ask to be called Ms, or to keep their names. They’re asking for the same treatment, to not be held to different arbitrary standards.

There’s a difference in acting like a man and asking to not be defined by their spouse in areas where it isn’t relevant, just like how men are granted that privilege. Your reply has nothing to do with what I was saying

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Why is it okay for a man to work 80-hour weeks, travel for work and rarely see his children? Obviously, when the children are very young, they have a stronger need for their mothers. But when they are teens? Especially boys? They need their dads. We talk so much about the importance of a father in a family, and rightfully so, but we don’t seem to have as much of a problem with men abandoning their families for the sake of a career

It isn’t right for a man to “abandon” his family either or to work so much that he is not there for them either.
There are definitely men who do that, work so much that they are not around. They too get caught up in money, climbing the ladder…
but just because men do it, doesn’t make it okay for women.
I guess when I hear the “men do it, why can’t women” I am reminded of a child who gets into trouble and then says what about so and so, look at what he does. Usually a parent will turn to that child and say, we are talking about you right now.

I think God does the same thing. He deals with what used to be called “dead beat fathers”, men who refuse to care for their families either financially or not being there. He wants more from men but also from women. Each to give their best to their roles.

If we as women believe it is wrong for a man to put so much into a career or put his job before his family and believe that he is neglecting them, why would we want to imitate that.

Encouragment, prayer and setting good examples would help the family more.

Sadly, men and women both have always had to leave their children in the care of others (grandparents, etc.) to do what needs to be done to feed their children, but we should not view it as normal or acceptable for either parent to do so voluntarily.

Totally agree.