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anthony022071
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A true prophet comes in the name of the God of Israel. He exhorts people to repent of their sins and to obey the commandments.
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paarsurrey
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I had sent a post (#13) on the thread”Near Death Experiences - Religion vs Spiritual”
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=164965,
in a way it is also related here so I copy it here:
Hi
I can see from the experience of near-deaths of my friends, that it has no relationship with becoming God or Near-God or Son of God, just because of it. Jonah experienced it in the belly of the whale but he was as human after the experience as before he was, he became nowhere near god. Lazarus (and so many others mentioned in the OTBible) was the same case, it is said he was raised from the dead, yet he also not became God or no change of supernatural being occurred in him. I, as of my own thought, would conclude that logically it has no connection with Jesus having attained deity because of it i.e., his being put on the Cross becoming neardead. Catholics could believe as per their faith. I was just thinking aloud.
Thanks
Please don’t mind, it is just a discussion to reach the truth
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=164965,
in a way it is also related here so I copy it here:
Hi
I can see from the experience of near-deaths of my friends, that it has no relationship with becoming God or Near-God or Son of God, just because of it. Jonah experienced it in the belly of the whale but he was as human after the experience as before he was, he became nowhere near god. Lazarus (and so many others mentioned in the OTBible) was the same case, it is said he was raised from the dead, yet he also not became God or no change of supernatural being occurred in him. I, as of my own thought, would conclude that logically it has no connection with Jesus having attained deity because of it i.e., his being put on the Cross becoming neardead. Catholics could believe as per their faith. I was just thinking aloud.
Thanks
Please don’t mind, it is just a discussion to reach the truth
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paarsurrey
Guest
HiA true prophet comes in the name of the God of Israel. He exhorts people to repent of their sins and to obey the commandments.
I think you have overlooked to verify your above Criteria, for instance how would you verify Adam’s Prophet hood under your Criteria. Kindly revise the same.
Thanks
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anthony022071
Guest
Adam was not a prophet.Hi
I think you have overlooked to verify your above Criteria, for instance how would you verify Adam’s Prophet hood under your Criteria. Kindly revise the same.
Thanks
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paarsurrey
Guest
Then does Noah fit into your Criteria?Adam was not a prophet.
Thanks
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anthony022071
Guest
Yes. He came to Ninevah in the name of the God of Israel and exhorted the people to repent of their sins.Then does Noah fit into your Criteria?
Thanks
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paarsurrey
Guest
HiYes. He came to Ninevah in the name of the God of Israel and exhorted the people to repent of their sins.
Both Adam and Noah were ProphetsMessengers of GodAllahYHWH and I think they both belonged to a time when Jacob/Israel was not even born.
Thanks
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adrift
Guest
Jesus IS God. He was God when He was conceived, He was God at His birth, He was God on the cross. In other words, He was always God and still IS God.I had sent a post (#13)
I, as of my own thought, would conclude that logically it has no connection with Jesus having attained deity because of it i.e., his being put on the Cross becoming neardead. Catholics could believe as per their faith. I was just thinking aloud.
Thanks
Please don’t mind, it is just a discussion to reach the truth
Adam and Noah were not prophets Perhaps you would care to share your definition of a prophet?Hi
Both Adam and Noah were ProphetsMessengers of GodAllahYHWH and I think they both belonged to a time when Jacob/Israel was not even born.
Thanks
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adrift
Guest
Did you mean Jonah and not Noah?Yes. He came to Ninevah in the name of the God of Israel and exhorted the people to repent of their sins.
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anthony022071
Guest
Yes. I’m sorry. The thread was about Jonah. I was’nt paying attention.Did you mean Jonah and not Noah?
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anthony022071
Guest
Adam was definitely not a prophet,and neither was Noah.Hi
Both Adam and Noah were ProphetsMessengers of GodAllahYHWH and I think they both belonged to a time when Jacob/Israel was not even born.
Thanks
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paarsurrey
Guest
HiAdam was definitely not a prophet,and neither was Noah.
Would you kindly mention who was the first ProphetMessenger of GodAllahYHWH according to you ( the Catholics) and who was the last one?
Also if you could define ProphetMessenger from OTBible, if possible?
Just for your information, the word prophet, according to Wictionary en.wiktionary.org/wiki/prophet: has the following
Etymology
From Ancient Greek προφήτης (prophētēs) “one who speaks for a god” < πρό (pro) “before” + φήμι (phēmi) “I tell”,
- Someone who speaks by divine inspiration.
- Someone who predicts the future; a soothsayer.
In Arabic it could be tranlated : نَبِيّ (nábi) m
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adrift
Guest
Prophecy, Prophet, and Prophetess
(1) General Idea – The Hebrew Prophet was not merely, as the word commonly implies, a man enlightened by God to foretell events; he was the interpreter and supernaturally enlightened herald sent by Yahweh to communicate His will and designs to Israel. His mission consisted in preaching as well as in foretelling. He had to maintain and develop the knowledge of the Old Law among the Chosen People, lead them back when they strayed, and gradually prepare the way for the new kingdom of God, which the messias was to establish on earth. Prophecy, in general, signifies the supernatural message of the Prophet, and more especially, from custom, the predictive element of the prophetic message.
(1) The first person entitled nabî’ in the Old Testament is Abraham, father of the elect, the friend of God, favoured with his personal communications (Genesis 20:7). The next is Moses, the founder and lawgiver of the theocratic nation, the mediator of the Old Covenant holding a degree of authority unequalled till the coming of Jesus Christ. “And there arose no more a prophet in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face, in all the signs and wonders, which he sent by him, to do in the land of Egypt to Pharao, and to all his servants, and to his whole land, and all the mighty hand, and great miracles, which Moses did before all Israel” (Deuteronomy 34:10 sqq.). There were other Prophets with him, but only of the second rank, such as Aaron and Maria, Eldad and Medad, to whom Yahweh manifested himself in dreams and vision, but not in the audible voice with which He favoured him, who was most faithful in all His house (Numbers 12:7).
Finally the Canon of the Scriptures closes with a prophetic book, the Apocalypse of St. John, which describes the struggles and the victories of the new kingdom while awaiting the return of its Chief at the consummation of all things.
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
Thanks for providing the above link. However, the Catholic Encyclopedia does not provide any defination of a ProphetMessenger of GodAllahYHWH, nor a Criteria from OTBible about a true/false that could help our friend kellie to recognize a true Prophet from a false one.
The Catholic Encyclopedia, as I have obsered, does not have consistent and clear cut concept of the stuff provided. There are conflicting entries, one feels:
(1) The ordinary Hebrew for prophet is nabî’.** Its etymology is uncertain**. According to many recent critics, the root nabî, not employed in Hebrew, signified to speak enthusiastically, “to utter cries, and make more or less wild gestures”.
(2) The first person entitled nabî’ in the Old Testament is Abraham, father of the elect, the friend of God, favoured with his personal communications (Genesis 20:7). The next is Moses.
(3) “And there arose no more a prophet in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face, in all the signs and wonders, which he sent by him, to do in the land of Egypt to Pharao, and to all his servants, and to his whole land, and all the mighty hand, and great miracles, which Moses did before all Israel” (Deuteronomy 34:10 sqq.).
(4) They are not Prophets in the strict sense of the word, nor are they disciples of the Prophets destined to become masters in their turn (the so-called “schools of Prophets”).
(5) Are we to consider as their degenerate and faithless successors those false Prophets of Yahweh whom we meet at the court of Achab, numbering four hundred, and later very numerous, also fighting against Isaias and Micheas and especially against Jeremias and Ezekiel? A definite answer cannot as yet be given, but it is wrong to consider them, as certain critics do, as authentic as the true Prophets, differing from them only by a more retrograde spirit, and less brilliant intellectual gifts.
(6) Finally the Canon of the Scriptures closes with a prophetic book, the Apocalypse of St. John, which describes the struggles and the victories of the new kingdom while awaiting the return of its Chief at the consummation of all things.
This is a very important religious issue, if Bible is worth what is said about it, it should have clearly mentioned as to what is a true Prophet/Nabi and what are Criteria of true/false Prophet/Nabi .
Thanks
The problem here with some of my Catholic friends is that they don’t let God speak for Himself. If they would have done it they would find a straight passage from the OTBible on every important issue, if Bible is a living book that answers every rational/reasonable/logical questions, of course we are not discussing here pure Mathematics or Physics, and we are mostly concerned with the every day moral, Spiritual and religious issues, and a religious worthwhile book must resolve such issues, if it is truthful to its purpose. When they don’t get support from the Bible, they think they are wiser than God, so they try filling the void by putting words into God’s mouth first for the Claim and then for the Reason which is usually not found there. One is hence left wondering if the Christian God is living and All-Wise.
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adrift
Guest
On the contrary it did give a definition.However, the Catholic Encyclopedia does not provide any defination of a ProphetMessenger of GodAllahYHWH, nor a Criteria from OTBible about a true/false that could help our friend kellie to recognize a true Prophet from a false one.
The Hebrew Prophet was…a man enlightened by God to foretell events; he was the interpreter and supernaturally enlightened herald sent by Yahweh to communicate His will and designs to Israel. His mission consisted in preaching as well as in foretelling. He had to maintain and develop the knowledge of the Old Law among the Chosen People, lead them back when they strayed, and gradually prepare the way for the new kingdom of God, which the messias was to establish on earth.
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paarsurrey
Guest
Quote:From the Catholic Encylopedia:
The Hebrew Prophet was…a man enlightened by God to foretell events; he was the interpreter and supernaturally enlightened herald sent by Yahweh to communicate His will and designs to Israel. His mission consisted in preaching as well as in foretelling. He had to maintain and develop the knowledge of the Old Law among the Chosen People, lead them back when they strayed, and gradually prepare the way for the new kingdom of God, which the messias was to establish on earth
You are right I missed it, but it is not supported from the references from OTBible. It also does not mention characteristics of a true/false prophet.
Thanks
The Hebrew Prophet was…a man enlightened by God to foretell events; he was the interpreter and supernaturally enlightened herald sent by Yahweh to communicate His will and designs to Israel. His mission consisted in preaching as well as in foretelling. He had to maintain and develop the knowledge of the Old Law among the Chosen People, lead them back when they strayed, and gradually prepare the way for the new kingdom of God, which the messias was to establish on earth
HiOn the contrary it did give a definition.
You are right I missed it, but it is not supported from the references from OTBible. It also does not mention characteristics of a true/false prophet.
Thanks
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hiit did give a definition.
I wanted to quote from Jewish Encyclopedia for a comparison with the Catholic. I could not access it, then I accessed the wikipedia which also consists the entries of the Jewish Encyclopedia, this is also Jewish , and it is more informative and with references from OTBible (and NTBible also). If you like you could access:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_Prophet
I am surprised to note that the emphasis of Catholic and Jewish is on False Prophet, there is little of True Prophet.
Thanks
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dessert
Guest
I would like to say to Kellie that some people claim to have a word of knowledge thus a word from God. It appears to be a divine revelation type understanding and we are to test it. I’m sorry I’m not that knowledgeable about all this but was in the pentecostal church for awhile before returning to the Catholic and it is very active (divine revelation I mean) in the CC too I am finding out.Hi
I wanted to quote from Jewish Encyclopedia for a comparison with the Catholic. I could not access it, then I accessed the wikipedia which also consists the entries of the Jewish Encyclopedia, this is also Jewish , and it is more informative and with references from OTBible (and NTBible also). If you like you could access:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_Prophet
I am surprised to note that the emphasis of Catholic and Jewish is on False Prophet, there is little of True Prophet.
Thanks
All of the discussion so far on the prophets ie; Moses Noah Jonah God told them to go somewhere, thus obedience first then He gave more instruction. After they got there.
I think it is a matter of being in the right place at the right time.
God can’t give the next without fullfilling the last and thus so on and on.
I think it is more than a feeling and God doesn’t just map things out for us like 1-10 steps but when we do step 1 then he will give us step 2 so on and on. Does this make sense?
I actually don’t think Kellie is on line with us.
You can access Marty Barrack anytime but I will e-mail as I have before and he relpies right away, no staff, straight from him.
Dessert
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hiit did give a definition.
I would like to quote some passages for information of the members here from:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_Prophet
The Hebrew Bible (known popularly to Christians as the Old Testament and to the Jews as the Tanach) contains a few tests for testing the validity of a prophet. One of these tests is outlined in Deuteronomy 13:1-5 (according to the Christian division of the Hebrew Bible – this format of chapter and verse numbers will be maintained throughout the rest of this article since it seems to be the most popular system):
“If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, ‘Let us follow other gods’ (gods you have not known) ‘and let us worship them,’ you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you” (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NIV).
Taking these verses to their plainest meaning, they state that a prophet can produce signs and wonders. However, what makes one a false prophet, according to this biblical model, is not whether his words come true or not, or whether or not he can produce convincing signs, but instead, whether or not he turns people from the deity Yahweh by either changing his commandments (in contradiction to the position outlined in Deuteronomy 4:2) or leading people to worship any god other than Yahweh. This verse in the Torah (the first five books of the Bible according to Jewish division) states that false prophets exist to test the love of those who follow Yahweh.
Another test for determining false prophets in the Torah is found in Deuteronomy 18:20-22. The text is as follows:
“But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”
“You may say to yourselves, ‘How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?’ If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him” (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NIV).
Christians refer to the Hebrew Bible as the Old Testament, and in general (see also Christian view of the Law) revere it as part of the eternal word of God. As such, many of the definitions and examples given above are accepted by Christians as well. In fact, the stricture not to presume to change God’s Law is recognized by Jesus in passages such as Matthew 5:17, “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.”
Thanks
I am surprised to note that the emphasis of Catholic and Jewish religious thought is on False Prophet rather than on the True Prophet; there is little material available on the characteristics of True Prophet with references from OTBible.
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dessert
Guest
This is part of a message I got from Marty Barrach and I can’t put it on as it has my name in it but I will write part anyways.
"Good to hear from you
The Greek word “*prophetes”*means “to speak for another”
God sometimes reveals a message for us to a particular man, and then commands him to proclaim it. A true prophet is one who actually recieves such a messafe from God and passes it on.
A false prophtet would be one who pretends to have a message from God but actuallyit is his own thinking or one who has a message from the demonic and proclaims that.
Some prophets wrote down what God had given them while others only spoke to the Kings or to their people.
So, yes, Jonah was a true prophet. We know this because the Christian Bible, in the Old Testament,has a book named for him. He was not recognized as a prophet until he began to speak to the King in Nineveah.
Today we have two kinds of prophecy …apparitions approved by the Church ie; Lourdes or Fatima…"
another example he gives of message or like I said word of knowledge but similar to message in homily.
This was all cut short but he is online Marty Barrack
If your Mohammad wanted to be recognized as a possible long lost prophet your faith needs to be joined to the Catholic teaching, it you don’t except any or all it is the Church’s authority you must deal with it.
Us here on this forum are not experts and don’t make claims to making any decisons like this as we do think for our selves as you don’t think we ddo and our faith is alive. We recognize the authority of the magesteriem and the apostles and most of all Christ as head of our faith. This IS what the prophets taught, to follow the shepherd.
There was a priest one time Mennon Simmons that left the Church and started the Mennonites no they didn’t acall it that right away it took time, today I’m not sure, but was in heresy then and I’m not sure if the Church actuall excommunicated him. I have read that they want to bereunited but like I said this is not our decisioons and they must embrace the cAatholic teachings and our Holy Father in Rome as on earth authority as he is acting as the spoke person. We are not all little popes or priests but we can be messengers as you say, but of the gospel of Christ.
We have a high priest in Christ Jesus, He is at our altar and “living” in the Echarist we recieve, we don’t need anymore wars or living sacrafices, if Mohammad was who you say he was he is in schism. Islam sounds somewhat simillar to this is a way exaggeration like the orthodox. I did read that it was a heresy at the time and today it would be called a schism, because of the Churches liberalism or maybe our Church does want more unification IMHO these are just my opinions.
Dessert
"Good to hear from you
The Greek word “*prophetes”*means “to speak for another”
God sometimes reveals a message for us to a particular man, and then commands him to proclaim it. A true prophet is one who actually recieves such a messafe from God and passes it on.
A false prophtet would be one who pretends to have a message from God but actuallyit is his own thinking or one who has a message from the demonic and proclaims that.
Some prophets wrote down what God had given them while others only spoke to the Kings or to their people.
So, yes, Jonah was a true prophet. We know this because the Christian Bible, in the Old Testament,has a book named for him. He was not recognized as a prophet until he began to speak to the King in Nineveah.
Today we have two kinds of prophecy …apparitions approved by the Church ie; Lourdes or Fatima…"
another example he gives of message or like I said word of knowledge but similar to message in homily.
This was all cut short but he is online Marty Barrack
If your Mohammad wanted to be recognized as a possible long lost prophet your faith needs to be joined to the Catholic teaching, it you don’t except any or all it is the Church’s authority you must deal with it.
Us here on this forum are not experts and don’t make claims to making any decisons like this as we do think for our selves as you don’t think we ddo and our faith is alive. We recognize the authority of the magesteriem and the apostles and most of all Christ as head of our faith. This IS what the prophets taught, to follow the shepherd.
There was a priest one time Mennon Simmons that left the Church and started the Mennonites no they didn’t acall it that right away it took time, today I’m not sure, but was in heresy then and I’m not sure if the Church actuall excommunicated him. I have read that they want to bereunited but like I said this is not our decisioons and they must embrace the cAatholic teachings and our Holy Father in Rome as on earth authority as he is acting as the spoke person. We are not all little popes or priests but we can be messengers as you say, but of the gospel of Christ.
We have a high priest in Christ Jesus, He is at our altar and “living” in the Echarist we recieve, we don’t need anymore wars or living sacrafices, if Mohammad was who you say he was he is in schism. Islam sounds somewhat simillar to this is a way exaggeration like the orthodox. I did read that it was a heresy at the time and today it would be called a schism, because of the Churches liberalism or maybe our Church does want more unification IMHO these are just my opinions.
Dessert
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