Sign of peace-for misericordie

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Mysty101

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Continued from the other thread
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misericordie:
Well, I continue to point out to you that the sign of peace is purely optional, but in your eisegesis in viewing GIRM, somehow you read into it that it says this pentecostal practice is a MUST do or else. NOT. Again, if GIRM does NOT specifically state nothing on optional, then point to me where it states it MUST!!! Be done?
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An instruction is that—an instruction. Where does it the GIRM say anything must be done? If there is an option, that is stated, otherwise any instruction is to be followed.

You don’t even acknowledge your community at the sign of peace? How sad.
 
The required part of the sign of peace is

P: The peace of the Lord be with you always.
A: And also with you.

Having the faithful extend the sign of peace to one another is optional.
 
  1. The Rite of Peace follows, by which the Church asks for peace and unity for herself and for the whole human family, and the faithful express to each other their ecclesial communion and mutual charity before communicating in the Sacrament.
As for the sign of peace to be given, the manner is to be established by Conferences of Bishops in accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples. It is, however, appropriate that each person offer the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and in a sober manner
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Ok, how does this read as optional?
 
  1. Then the priest, with hands extended, says aloud the prayer, Domine Iesu Christe, qui dixisti (Lord Jesus Christ, you said). After this prayer is concluded, extending and then joining his hands, he gives the greeting of peace while facing the people and saying, Pax Domini sit simper vobiscum (The peace of the Lord be with you always). The people answer, Et cum spiritu tuo (And also with you). Afterwards, when appropriate, the priest adds, Offerte vobis pacem (Let us offer each other the sign of peace).
Section 82 does not read as optional, but section 154 does. I agree that the norm is for the faithful to offer each other the sign of peace (I’m not sure what would make it inappropriate), but there are obviously times when it may be omitted. Perhaps “optional” is a poor choice of words, since it may be strictly governed, yet it must be recognized that the sign of peace must not always be practiced.
 
Afterwards, when appropriate, the priest adds, Offerte vobis pacem (Let us offer each other the sign of peace).
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And when the Priest adds * (Let us offer each other the sign of peace)*. it is not an option–it is a direction. It may be an option for the Priest or the Bishop, but not for the people once the Priest tells them to offer the sign of peace. I’m sure no one would be faulted, if they said “peace” without the handshake, but do you really think it is OK to totally ignore the community when directed to give a sign of peace?

Remember the Mass is public community worship. Even without the direction, if everyone offers a sign of peace, that is what is appropriate for that community. (We are not speaking of major abuses–I do not think M is doing anything really wrong, just that offering some sign of peace is a better way to go.)
 
Section 82 does not read as optional, but section 154 does. I agree that the norm is for the faithful to offer each other the sign of peace (I’m not sure what would make it inappropriate), but there are obviously times when it may be omitted.
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I have been in many parishes where this is ommitted. Often, if you ask, the pastor has decided to not use the practice for some good reason, such as too many people wandering around the sanctary or refusing to stop when the Agnus Dei begins. I have also heard of parishes that suspend the practice for flu season.
Remember the Mass is public community worship. Even without the direction, if everyone offers a sign of peace, that is what is appropriate for that community.
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The Mass is community worship but it is vertical rather than horizontal. The focus is supposed to be in our common focus on the sacrifice at the altar, not on each other. This is one of the reasons that many people object to the shared Sign of Peace and one reason given for wanting to move it to a different part of Mass (a request that was denied by the Vatican).

There is no directive to share the sign of peace in any particular way. Some people shake hands, others hug, some just nod and smile. If someone doesn’t respond in the same way that you offer the sign of peace, this doesn’t mean they are ignoring the community. There could be many other reasons.
 
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Mysty101:
Continued from the other thread

An instruction is that—an instruction. Where does it the GIRM say anything must be done? If there is an option, that is stated, otherwise any instruction is to be followed.

You don’t even acknowledge your community at the sign of peace? How sad.
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The sign of Peace is optional. It is not an abuse of the liturgy and it is not a sin to not participate in the sign of peace. It is not done in the Latin Mass or the eastern Liturgies.
 
Andreas Hofer:
I agree that the norm is for the faithful to offer each other the sign of peace (I’m not sure what would make it inappropriate), but there are obviously times when it may be omitted. Perhaps “optional” is a poor choice of words, since it may be strictly governed, yet it must be recognized that the sign of peace must not always be practiced.
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(above emphasis mine) Inappropriate would be a mass I attended in Gallup, New Mexico, when the priest directed us to greet each other with the sign of peace and added,“And ask the Joneses about that new baby!” I don’t mind the sign of peace, but I do wish there could be an emphasis on the “sober manner.”
 
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jimmy:
The sign of Peace is optional. It is not an abuse of the liturgy and it is not a sin to not participate in the sign of peace. It is not done in the Latin Mass or the eastern Liturgies.
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Just a small correction – the sign of peace is used in the Eastern Liturgies, even if only between the clergy. While we do not say “Peace be with you.” which seems to be the most common greeting in the Latin Church, we do have a sign of peace. For most of the year one person says “Christ is in our midst” and the reply is “He is, and He always will be.”

In the Arab tradition the “sign of peace” is a kiss on both cheeks, although we do have people who prefer to shake hands.

In the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom (and that of St. Basil) this happens just before the Creed is sung. In the Maronite liturgy (Quorbono) this occurs just before the Anaphora or Eucharistic Prayer. In the Chaldean Mass this takes place just after the Creed.

It was also found in the early Roman liturgies, although seems to have fallen from favor except for the clergy greeting each other.

Deacon Ed
 
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jimmy:
The sign of Peace is optional. It is not an abuse of the liturgy and it is not a sin to not participate in the sign of peace. It is not done in the Latin Mass or the eastern Liturgies.
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And just where did I say it was? The GIRM is the instruction for the NO Mass, not the Latin or Eastern liturgies. I am just saying that the sign of peace is not an option in the US NO Mass, unles the Priest (for a good reason) chooses to omit it.

OK I started this thread in response to this post by M
I NOW kneel and close my eyes at the part of the “sign of peace.” Of course this is on those rare times when I do attend the Novus Ordo, after all the Pope gave us the right to attend if we so choose, the Tridentine Latin Mass(see: Motu Propio Ecclesia Dei Document 1988).
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My point is that action is not following the GIRM. I said nothing about abuse or sin.
  1. The Rite of Peace follows, by which the Church asks for peace and unity for herself and for the whole human family, and the faithful express to each other their ecclesial communion and mutual charity before communicating in the Sacrament.
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As for the sign of peace to be given, the manner is to be established by Conferences of Bishops in accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples. It is, however, appropriate that each person offer the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and in a sober manner
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If I don’t want to shake someones hand at mass I don’t have to. There is no requirement in the GIRM or in the canon law or in the Catechism or anywhere that says I have to shake hands or hug or kiss or do anything. I have the choice to do it though.

Obviously if the preist can ommit it, it is not that important to follow.
 
The instrustions are in the GIRM. You can follow them or not as you choose but the sign of peace is not an option according to the rules.

There are no major consequences, and the instruction is a “sign of peace” not specifically a handshake or hug. A good spirit of the sign of peace could be a nod or smile, or just the word “peace”, but totally ignoring the community is not in the spirit of that part of the Mass.
 
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Mysty101:
The instrustions are in the GIRM. You can follow them or not as you choose but the sign of peace is not an option according to the rules.

There are no major consequences, and the instruction is a “sign of peace” not specifically a handshake or hug. A good spirit of the sign of peace could be a nod or smile, or just the word “peace”, but totally ignoring the community is not in the spirit of that part of the Mass.
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I will agree that you should do it, only because it would be disrespectful of Christ to just sit there and make a scene in the middle of mass. But if someone does not give a sign of peace, it is not a sin.
 
Of course not (althought there may be some sinful motives behind the refusal)

Sin is always a matter between the sinner and God, and only they know whether or not a sin was committed. A sinful act may be mitigated by other circumstances, or a non sinful act (refusing to give a sign of peace) may become sinful because of the motive (possibly hatred or that neighbor, or obstinate disobedience to the instructions of the Bishop)
 
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Mysty101:
Of course not (althought there may be some sinful motives behind the refusal)

Sin is always a matter between the sinner and God, and only they know whether or not a sin was committed. A sinful act may be mitigated by other circumstances, or a non sinful act (refusing to give a sign of peace) may become sinful because of the motive (possibly hatred or that neighbor, or obstinate disobedience to the instructions of the Bishop)
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If I did not want to give a sign of peace because I fealt it distracted the people from the true meaning of the mass, it would not be a sin.

When I made that statement I was thinking that it would not be disobedience to the church, which it would not be.
 
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jimmy:
If I did not want to give a sign of peace because I fealt it distracted the people from the true meaning of the mass, it would not be a sin.

When I made that statement I was thinking that it would not be disobedience to the church, which it would not be.
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Not sure on that one—You are given an instruction. It is not up to you to decide whether or not it is a distraction. You were told to do it. Not major disobedience, but disobedience nevertheless.
 
Deacon Ed:
Just a small correction – the sign of peace is used in the Eastern Liturgies, even if only between the clergy. While we do not say “Peace be with you.” which seems to be the most common greeting in the Latin Church, we do have a sign of peace. For most of the year one person says “Christ is in our midst” and the reply is “He is, and He always will be.”

In the Arab tradition the “sign of peace” is a kiss on both cheeks, although we do have people who prefer to shake hands.

In the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom (and that of St. Basil) this happens just before the Creed is sung. In the Maronite liturgy (Quorbono) this occurs just before the Anaphora or Eucharistic Prayer. In the Chaldean Mass this takes place just after the Creed.

It was also found in the early Roman liturgies, although seems to have fallen from favor except for the clergy greeting each other.

Deacon Ed
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So Deacon Ed, except for your corrections, can Jimmy’s premise below be considered correct?
The sign of Peace is optional. It is not an abuse of the liturgy and it is not a sin to not participate in the sign of peace.
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Mysty101:
Not sure on that one—You are given an instruction. It is not up to you to decide whether or not it is a distraction. You were told to do it. Not major disobedience, but disobedience nevertheless.
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It is not disobedience at all. An instruction is not necisarily a demand or a command. The instructions on the back of a mac n cheese box say add butter but if I don’t feel like adding the fat to my mac n cheese there is nothing wrong with that.
 
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