Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

[Reformed]

As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13).

The same is true for you.

That’s a very good post. And yes I believe salvation is a process of past, present and future works of God in our lives. I have seen a great pattern with Phil 2;12. Catholics will always leave out Phil 2:13 when quoting Phil 2:12. Why is that? Please share your understanding of why you are already saved. Could you also please share the basis of your already saved standing?

And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.

26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because [6] the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, [7] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. - rom 8

 

[Thing]

I believe Scripture teaches that perfect obedience to the will of God (sinless) is required for Heaven. In your Roman Catholic Faith, how obedient do you need to be in words and in deeds to enter Heaven? In another way to look at it, why should God allow you into His eternal presence in Heaven?

…how obedient do you need to be in words and in deeds to enter Heaven?

 

[Reformed]

…how obedient do you need to be in words and in deeds to enter Heaven?

I enter Heaven through the perfect obedience of another. My personal obediences in words and deeds is flawed and falls short of the glory of God. I don’t think God grades on a curve because God requires pefection, because He is the Almighty God who is pure and Holy…with no darkness at all.

 

[water]

For anyone who wants to read about what Catholic says about Salvation - click on the link
catholic.com/library/salvation.asp

 

[wanner47]

That’s a very good post. And yes I believe salvation is a process of past, present and future works of God in our lives. I have seen a great pattern with Phil 2;12. Catholics will always leave out Phil 2:13 when quoting Phil 2:12. Why is that? Please share your understanding of why you are already saved. Could you also please share the basis of your already saved standing?

And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.

26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because [6] the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, [7] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. - rom 8

First, tell me why I should believe your interpretation of Scripture over that of the Catholic Church’s.

 

[Reformed]

For anyone who wants to read about what Catholic says about Salvation - click on the link
catholic.com/library/salvation.asp

There is a fork in the road being presented to you here. You can click on above, or you can work through the New Testament by praying, reading and studying the Word of God. My suggestion is to read through the 13 Epistles of Paul in context. Then read all the writings of the Apostle John. Then read Peter and James.

 

[Reformed]

First, tell me why I should believe your interpretation of Scripture over that of the Catholic Church’s.

I am not asking you to believe my interpertation. Your post was so wonderful. I just wanted to know what you meant by salvation being past “I have been saved”. You have to admit, Phil 2:12 is quoted without Phil 2:13 by Roman Catholic Christians. I do suggest that everyone would read through the 13 Epstiles of Paul in context, the writings of John, and then the writings of Peter and James. After that, we should continue this discussion in greater depth.

 

[Thing]

What is the basis of your legal standing before God? Are you justifed based on the person and work of Christ on your behalf? Or are you justified based on the work of Christ (+) your own personal works done in Christ? If it’s the work of Christ (+) your own personal works done in Christ…how much works do you need to do to make it to Heaven? Would you say salvation is 50% God and 50% of self? Can you boast in the flesh that you helped God to save you?

What is the basis of your legal standing before God?

Its too soon to say;

If by any means I may attain to the resurrection which is from the dead. 12 Not as though I had already attained, or were already perfect; but I follow after, if I may by any means apprehend, wherein I am also apprehended by Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended.

Are you justifed based on the person and work of Christ on your behalf? Or are you justified based on the work of Christ (+) your own personal works done in Christ?

Like the seeds that fell on the path and in the thorns, unless the word falls on fertile ground it will not survive and grow. Our part is to mind our house, clear the ground, till the soil, or however you want to put it. Adam was thrown out of the garden and had to grow his own food from the thorny ground. Do you want a free lunch? Christ is able to do His part, are you able to do your part?

If it’s the work of Christ (+) your own personal works done in Christ…how much works do you need to do to make it to Heaven? Would you say salvation is 50% God and 50% of self? Can you boast in the flesh that you helped God to save you?

I would rather respond to what He did than sit like a fat lazy thing waiting for Him to do everything. St. Paul strove ahead for perfection, nothing less than a 100% response was what he aimed at, and even then he did not claim he was already saved.

 

[water]

There is a fork in the road being presented to you here. You can click on above, or you can work through the New Testament by praying, reading and studying the Word of God. My suggestion is to read through the 13 Epistles of Paul in context. Then read all the writings of the Apostle John. Then read Peter and James.

Thank you, Reformed. I actually have a Catholic gospel given to me as a gift by my Protestant brother. While reading the Scriptures, I don’t rely on my own interpretation but on the Church instituted by Christ - The Holy Spirit works with the Church for more than 2000 years. I can rely on that!

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Interesting question. Tell me how are infants saved? how are those mentally handicapped saved? How are souls saved that are unable to speak? The Catholic church has the answer for all these. What is the answer from a non catholic or protestant belief? or do non catholics leave these poor souls out of the work of salvation for the fact that they are incapable of confessing Jesus as their personal savior?

Peace

 

[Reformed]

Thank you, Reformed. I actually have a Catholic gospel given to me as a gift by my Protestant brother. While reading the Scriptures, I don’t rely on my own interpretation but on the Church instituted by Christ - The Holy Spirit works with the Church for more than 2000 years. I can rely on that!

Thanks for the kind post. Your statement is why you are a Roman Catholic Christian and I am not. Would it be fair to say that your Faith is built upon on the claim that the Roman Catholic Church is the One True Church of God. You do understand the reason for the Protestant Reformation, correct?

In keeping with the OP… do you mind sharing your answer to the question of “Sirs, what must I do to be saved”?

 

[Reformed]

Interesting question. Tell me how are infants saved? how are those mentally handicapped saved? How are souls saved that are unable to speak? The Catholic church has the answer for all these. What is the answer from a non catholic or protestant belief? or do non catholics leave these poor souls out of the work of salvation for the fact that they are incapable of confessing Jesus as their personal savior?

Peace

Ohh… I don’t think the Magestrium will boldly say they have answers for unbaptized infants who die, or those who die without hearing the gospel. In addition, just because the Roman Catholic Church tells you something, it does not mean that it is true.

 

[water]

You do understand the reason for the Protestant Reformation, correct?

Pride.

In keeping with the OP… do you mind sharing your answer to the question of “Sirs, what must I do to be saved”?

Personally, Be a Catholic as best as I can be with God’s grace.
For all, please read:

catholic.com/library/salvation.asp

 

[Reformed]

Its too soon to say;

If by any means I may attain to the resurrection which is from the dead. 12 Not as though I had already attained, or were already perfect; but I follow after, if I may by any means apprehend, wherein I am also apprehended by Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended.

Like the seeds that fell on the path and in the thorns, unless the word falls on fertile ground it will not survive and grow. Our part is to mind our house, clear the ground, till the soil, or however you want to put it. Adam was thrown out of the garden and had to grow his own food from the thorny ground. Do you want a free lunch? Christ is able to do His part, are you able to do your part?

I would rather respond to what He did than sit like a fat lazy thing waiting for Him to do everything. St. Paul strove ahead for perfection, nothing less than a 100% response was what he aimed at, and even then he did not claim he was already saved.

Ohh… I already agreed with you that saving faith will produce in a person a life of struggle, pressing on… pushing forward mightly by the power of God in this life to our upward calling in Christ. Jesus promised tribulation for the Christian. True Christians are lke salmon swimming upstream against the current. It is not passive spiritual pilgrimage. What is the basis of your standing before God today, tomorrow, and forever?

 

[Reformed]

Pride.

Personally, Be a Catholic as best as I can be with God’s grace.
For all, please read:

catholic.com/library/salvation.asp

So being a Catholic the best you can is how to be saved? It sure sounds like a formula of works righteousness to me, but what do I know?

Romans 10

Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

 

[Thing]

Ohh… I already agreed with you that saving faith will produce in a person a life of struggle, pressing on… pushing forward mightly by the power of God in this life to our upward calling in Christ. Jesus promised tribulation for the Christian. True Christians are lke salmon swimming upstream against the current. It is not passive spiritual pilgrimage. What is the basis of your standing before God today, tomorrow, and forever?

Let me ask you something. Does saving faith always produce perseverance to the end?

 

[Reformed]

Let me ask you something. Does saving faith always produce perseverance to the end?

Sure. There is a very grounded Roman Catholic Christian who stated that only the elect receive the grace of perservance (paraphrase).

I think most Roman Catholics don’t understand that some Protestants proclaim a faith that saves but remains dead (James 2). Easy believism is a product of Charles Finney. Mr Finney came out of the 2nd Great Awakening. He rejected biblical Christianity and the distinctions of Protestantism such as justification by faith alone. I can see the over-reaction and protest of an untrue gospel of easy believism. Altar calls and sinners prayers do not make a person saved.

 

[wanner47]

I am not asking you to believe my interpertation.

I’m sorry, but you are. You’re giving me, and other participants of this thread, your interpretation of what Scripture says or means.

Your post was so wonderful.

I’m so glad you think so. It came from this excellent article.

I just wanted to know what you meant by salvation being past “I have been saved”.

I have been saved by baptism and by Christ’s sacrifice on the Cross, and by my belief in Christ as my Savior. However, as Christ also said, I must keep his commandments to be saved, so I am doing my best to persevere “with fear and trembling” in that regard.

You have to admit, Phil 2:12 is quoted without Phil 2:13 by Roman Catholic Christians. I do suggest that everyone would read through the 13 Epstiles of Paul in context, the writings of John, and then the writings of Peter and James. After that, we should continue this discussion in greater depth.

I highly recommend you read The Salvation Controversy by Jimmy Akin. He goes into an incredibly in-depth discussion of the topic, including the verses you mention, and is a much better presentation on the topic of salvation than we could possibly have on an Internet forum.

If you would like to borrow my copy, I’d be happy to lend it to you – however, I would want it back, as it’s autographed by Jimmy himself.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Ohh… I don’t think the Magestrium will boldly say they have answers for unbaptized infants who die, or those who die without hearing the gospel. In addition, just because the Roman Catholic Church tells you something, it does not mean that it is true.

So Reformed you have all the answers that discredits 2000 years of great Christians who lived and died for the Christian faith that you freely avail yourself to, by accepting and believing your own interpretation of history and scriptures. Tell me, you accept the scriptures as given to you by the Roman Catholic church Magesterium; why would you refuse to listen to Jesus who built this Magesterium? But then again Reformed has his own reformed Christianity from 2000 years of Christian belief.

You have not addressed the question, how are infants saved, mentally ill, and the deaf and mute souls, in a non catholic bible believing Christian church?

 

[Thing]

Sure.

But you believe saving faith always produces perseverance to the end.
So why are not all people saved?