six nuns excommunicated for heresy!

[Tabitha]

In red & underlined, in your post: “five brothers” & “best friend”. (At least my best friend is regarded as one of the family).
His brothers & best friend are the ones to whom he was speaking. (According to everybody’s account, including the Mormon powers that be).

It’s just not real clear in the article whether he was talking about his biological brothers or his “brothers” in the church. Mormons call men brothers and women sisters.

I read an interview he gave. I think the link is in this thread. And it seems to me all he did was inform other members of things that he dicovered that he’s never been told and asking questions. The Catholic Church would never excommunicate a member who does the same.

 

[Tabitha]

Who knows what goes on in the mind of a person who has been a nun for 30 to 40 years? They might not have a take on money as we do. They are now separated from the church they love and also the Eucharist. Can money release that pain?

These nuns aren’t cloistered nuns who have someone else taking care of them. These nuns completely take care of themselves on their own now and always have financially and plus they are business women. They know as much about money as we do.

Tabitha

 

[adrift]

The Church of Latter Day Saints may excommunicate who they will that doesn’t mean that others cannot comment on it. The Catholic Church has the same right. Others do and will criticize the decision and that is there right. Free speech remember it cuts both ways. The difference between the LDS and Catholics is what is meant and the desired results of excommunication. LDS from what I read are trying to protect their members from what they regard as false teachings. Our Church does and has done the same thing.

How did each Church accomplish the excommunications?

The answer to this question shows the greatest difference between the two.

Did anyone from LDS try to council, give warnings, and try to bring the man back into the fold?

 

[why_me]

But as for mormons, when you are excommunicated, you cannot return, and you are damned for all eternity. Strange to me, that a sect of Christianity that believes in an all forgiving God, could say that you cannot be forgiven. of coarse, i also hear that most people believe that mormons are not Christians to begin with, but i am not sure i want to start that one

This is not true. One can always return to the lds church. An excommuicated member can go to service and attend all lds meetings. But their activities are limited because of their excommunication. Many do return to the lds church. Members do not shun excommunicated members. Just the opposite. If the excommunicated member wishes his or her status to be known among the members, he or she will receive much support to come back to full fellowship. If he or she wants the excommunication to be a secret, he or she would still be experiencing fellowship from members who know nothing of his or her status. Very few people a damned to hell in the lds faith.

 

[why_me]

Did anyone from LDS try to council, give warnings, and try to bring the man back into the fold?

I believe so. I have no idea of course but such a procedure is not given without a warning in this case as the Arizona man. I would be surprised if he wasn’t warned.

 

[why_me]

It’s just not real clear in the article whether he was talking about his biological brothers or his “brothers” in the church. Mormons call men brothers and women sisters.

I read an interview he gave. I think the link is in this thread. And it seems to me all he did was inform other members of things that he dicovered that he’s never been told and asking questions. The Catholic Church would never excommunicate a member who does the same.

Neither would the mormons. I believe that he did more than what is said in the article. But who knows. Since he was an elder’s quorum president, a position that has importance in the lds local church, and since he was probably trying to lead people away from the lds church, he was going to be excommunicated. This would have occured over a period of time.

The information that he discovered about polygamy was from a lds/mormon sponsored website:www.familysearch.org. He then did more investigation.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

Abject shunning is a JW practice, not a general Mormon practice.

I am a former member of the LDS church myself, now a Catholic since 1999 (and will be forever Catholic).
I still have a good friend who is a devout, practicing Mormon and he knows I’m Catholic. We email each other frequently to see how each other is doing and to chat, etc. And I wasn’t excommunicated, I RESIGNED from the LDS church.

I don’t agree with LDS theology,
but I’m not going to slander them or confuse their
disciplinary practices with those of the JWs, of
which I am ALSO an ex-JW.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

 

[why_me]

There is much benefit of the Mass, even without receiving Communion.

This is true. But for a nun, who is the bride of christ, not being able to receive communion could bring a feeling of emptiness during Mass.

 

[adrift]

This is true. But for a nun, who is the bride of christ, not being able to receive communion could bring a feeling of emptiness during Mass.

She has a choice.

 

[why_me]

She has a choice.

Don’t we all. :nun1:

 

[Petergee]

I am a former member of the LDS church myself, now a Catholic since 1999 (and will be forever Catholic)… I wasn’t excommunicated, I RESIGNED from the LDS church.

I don’t agree with LDS theology,
but I’m not going to slander them or confuse their
disciplinary practices with those of the JWs, of
which I am ALSO an ex-JW.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

Wow, you should get some sort of medal! In my experience most people who come to realise that they had been comprehensively hoodwinked by the lies of either the Mormons or the JWs, get turned off relligion altogether. Congratulations on not giving up the search for the truth.

 

[Mom_of_5]

I have two step-sons, both excommunicated LDS while in their early 20’s. Reason for the exco
mmunication---- one son asked questions about the church and some of the teachings that he considered wrong or “wierd”. One son was in the army and had been “partying”. He was seen by the LDS Bishop and confronted about his behavior. Son was not very courteous in his remarks to the Bishop, and was asked to sign a paper that he was no longer a member of LDS church. In order to return to the church, they would have to be re-baptized, since when a mormon leaves the church or is ex-communicated, “the effects of the baptism and all the blessings are taken away.”

Ex-communication in the Catholic Church is much differenct than in the LDS faith. NO comparison.

Sadly, neither goes to any church and consider all religion “fake”.

Love and peace,

Mom of 5

 

[zerinus]

I have two step-sons, both excommunicated LDS while in their early 20’s. Reason for the excommunication---- one son asked questions about the church and some of the teachings that he considered wrong or “wierd”. . . .

That is no reason to get excommunicated from the Church. Nobody ever gets excommunicate for such a reason. There must be a lot more to it than that, which you either don’t know abut, or you aren’t telling.

zerinus

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

Ex-communication in the Catholic Church is much differenct than in the LDS faith. NO comparison.
Mom of 5

from the Arkansas Catholic: ** part 1**

Six nuns excommunicated for remaining in heretical group

Published: September 26, 2007

• (photo of Msgr. Hebert)*Tara Little

Msgr. J. Gaston Hebert, administrator of the Diocese of Little Rock, speaks in a press conference Sept. 26 about the excommunication of six religious sisters in Hot Springs for membership in the schismatic Army of Mary.

By Malea Hargett
Editor

Six sisters from the Monastery of Our Lady of Charity and Refuge in Hot Springs were excommunicated by the Catholic Church for their involvement in a schismatic association based in Quebec, Canada.

It is believed to be the first time anyone in the Diocese of Little Rock has been formally excommunicated.

The excommunicated sisters are Mary Gerard Lalancette, Mary Thomas O’Keefe, Marietta Fecteau, Mary Anne Lalancette, Mary Theresa Dionne and Theresa Marie Lalancette.

The women have been long-time members of the Community of the Lady of All Nations, also known as the Army of Mary. On their own, the six sisters decided to join the association between 20 and 30 years ago and adopt the teachings of its founder, Marie-Paul Giguere, who believes she is the reincarnation of the Virgin Mary.

The association is no longer considered a Catholic organization because of its false teachings on the Trinity and Mary, a Vatican official said.

“The Army of Mary has clearly and publicly become a schismatic community and, as such, a non-Catholic association. Its particular teachings are false and its activities are not able to be frequented nor supported by Catholics,” according to a formal declaration written July 11 by the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

The congregation released the declaration Sept. 12 and Msgr. J. Gaston Hebert, diocesan administrator, learned of the decision on Sept. 17.

On Sept. 18 Msgr. Hebert personally visited with the sisters and their chaplain, Father Erik Pohlmeier, also pastor of St. John and St. Mary churches in Hot Springs. After reading the declaration, Msgr. Hebert gave the eight sisters in attendance one week to prayerfully consider their decision. Msgr. Hebert said he gave them a week because he wanted the sisters to “knowingly and deliberately” make their choice between the Army of Mary and full communion with the Catholic Church.

He returned to the monastery the night of Sept. 25 and accepted the decisions of six of them to leave.

“It is a painfully historic moment in this Church,” Msgr. Hebert said at a press conference Sept. 26 at St. John Center in Little Rock. “These are my friends. I have known them my whole life.”

Church officials in Canada, Rome and Little Rock have talked with the association’s priests, sisters and lay members for many years about their teachings, and they have failed to recant any errors. The final act happened June 3 when Father Jean-Pierre Mastropietro, an association priest, invalidly ordained six men in Canada.

Diocesan officials said Bishop J. Peter Sartain remained in dialogue with the sisters from 2001 to 2006 about their involvement in the Army of Mary, encouraging them to stop promoting the association among the laity.

Father Benedict Picard, a member of the Army of Mary, served as the order’s chaplain in Hot Springs from 1998 until he returned to Canada in 2004.

“Bishop Sartain worked with Father Picard and the sisters to try to get them to disassociate with the movement,” said Deacon Bo McAllister, diocesan chancellor for canonical affairs.

Three of the six sisters who chose Sept. 25 to continue their membership in the association are biological siblings. Sister Theresa Marie Lalancette, the superior, and her sisters, Mary Anne Lalancette and M. Gerard Lalancette, came to Arkansas from Quebec more than 50 years ago.

Sister Mary Thomas is director of the order’s day care center and the only American-born sister to be excommunicated. She joined the order after attending St. Michael boarding school. Sisters Marietta and Mary Theresa, assistant superior, were both born in Canada.

Ten women religious are members of Our Lady of Charity and Refuge.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

part 2

Sister Maria Dinh, the convent’s secretary, and Sister Mary Elizabeth Dinh are originally from Vietnam and have never been associated with the Army of Mary, Msgr. Hebert said. The two sisters, who are not related, will be moving to another convent, he said.

Msgr. Hebert said the other two sisters are living in a nursing home and could not “knowingly and deliberately” choose to remain with the Army of Mary. They are Sisters Mary Olive Cote, who at around 90 years old is the order’s oldest member, and Sister M. Anthony Bessette.

During the press conference, Msgr. Hebert said the sisters’ decisions mean the monastery will no longer be recognized by the diocese, and laity in Garland County should not financially support the order.

“They will no longer have any sacraments. We removed (the Blessed Sacrament) from the premises last night,” he said.

Although they cannot receive Communion, they are encouraged to attend Mass, he said.

Msgr. Hebert, a Hot Springs native, was the order’s chaplain in 2005 and witnessed first hand some of the sisters’ beliefs.

“From my childhood I have known them. They are good, good women who love God and have served the community beautifully. They have served the poor, outcasts, abused women, children who could not afford to be educated. They have done all this over the years because they love God. But somewhere along the line they fell into this Army of Mary and became entranced and deluded with this doctrine that is heretical.”

Our Lady of Charity and Refuge opened in Hot Springs Sept. 27, 1908, when five French-Canadian sisters arrived at the request of Bishop John B. Morris. At one point, there were 27 sisters living at the former “mansion” on 10 acres on Malvern Avenue. Between 1910 and 1968 the order operated a girls’ boarding school, trade school and laundry.

Known locally as Good Shepherd Home, the sisters operated St. Michael School for children in pre-kindergarten to sixth grade until 2001. Since the school closing, the order continues to care for infants to pre-kindergarten students. Since 2004 St. Michael Day Care Center has been certified by the Arkansas Quality Approval Certification program and received an Arkansas Better Chance grant. It is seen in the community as a quality day care, especially for low-income families.

The sisters’ connection to the Hot Springs Catholic community has been strong for nearly 100 years. The Catholic community’s perpetual adoration chapel and the Hot Springs Catholic Youth Center were located on the grounds. The chapel and youth center will be relocated elsewhere in the community, Msgr. Hebert said.

It was common for parishioners in Hot Springs and Hot Springs Village to raise money for the day care and assist with projects around the grounds.

The future of the order and monastery has been questioned. The order owns the property on Malvern Avenue. The order was founded based on the teachings of St. Augustine and St. John Eudes, but it is an autonomous religious order and is not connected with any other monastery outside of Arkansas.

The sisters receive financial assistance through the community and operation of the day care.

“To pay utilities, food bills and maintenance, the sisters depend on donations and bequests from former students and Hot Springs citizens as well as fundraisers sponsored by the school’s support organization,” according to Sept. 30, 2006, article in Arkansas Catholic.

Msgr. Hebert said he hopes all Catholics in the diocese will continue to pray for the Monastery of Our Lady of Charity and Refuge and that some day the six women will reconcile with the Catholic Church.

“Christ never turns his back on anyone and neither do we,” he said.

*If you subscribed to Arkansas Catholic’s free E-Letter, you received a link to this story in your e-mail the day it was posted. Want to get occasional e-mail updates when important news breaks outside our regular cycle? Subscribe to the free E-Letter here.

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[Mom_of_5]

That is no reason to get excommunicated from the Church. Nobody ever

gets excommunicate for such a reason. There must be a lot more to it than that, which you either don’t know abut, or you aren’t telling.

zerinus

YES, this is the reason for the excommunication.
Son asked far too many questions as he started to study his faith. The Bishop excommunicated him when he could not answer the questions in a way that made any sense to son. This was about 20 years ago. Maybe the reasons for excommunication have changed since then, but
this is a TRUE story. My husband was a very active member of LDS at the time. He is now Catholic. He was threatened with excommunication for not accepting “callings” at a time in his life when his mother was dying and his father was ill. This is all true. In the Catholic church, it takes more than an irate Bishop to excommunicate. Thank God!!

Love and peace,
Mom of 5

 

[why_me]

.
My husband was a very active member of LDS at the time. He is now Catholic. He was threatened with excommunication for not accepting “callings” at a time in his life when his mother was dying and his father was ill. This is all true. In the Catholic church, it takes more than an irate Bishop to excommunicate. Thank God!!

Love and peace,
Mom of 5

I have been a member for over 30 years and for 28 of those years refused callings. I am still a member. Never excommunicated or threatened with excommunication and I attend irregularly. Also, excommuications are not decided by one individual but by several people. There is something wrong with your story. If someone were excommunicated as your husband and the members would find out, there would be an out cry. Your husband could have had a terrible Stake President who acted improperly. But…no one to my knowledge was excommunicated for refusing ‘callings’ or for questioning doctrine. Now actively disagreeing with doctrine, is quite another thing.

Your husband and sons could have repealed the Stake President’s decision by going to a higher authority.

 

[why_me]

YES, this is the reason for the excommunication.
Son asked far too many questions as he started to study his faith. The Bishop excommunicated him when he could not answer the questions in a way that made any sense to son. This was about 20 years ago. Maybe the reasons for excommunication have changed since then, but
this is a TRUE story.
Love and peace,
Mom of 5

I have never heard of this either. Nothing wrong with asking questions. A person can go into the bishop’s office and ask any question he or she wants. Now what is unfortunate, is that the bishop is just a lay person, someone who is imperfect and mistakes are made. But one can always go to a higher authority.

To be excommunicated for questioning would have been wrong on the bishop’s part. But I still have a hard time believing your story. You and your husband should have fought against the decision.

 

[why_me]

In other words Ravyn, no community support, and loss of building and hunger sets in for the sisters who dedicated their lives to god and church.

The sisters receive financial assistance through the community and operation of the day care.

“To pay utilities, food bills and maintenance, the sisters depend on donations and bequests from former students and Hot Springs citizens as well as fundraisers sponsored by the school’s support organization,” according to Sept. 30, 2006, article in Arkansas Catholic.

Msgr. Hebert said he hopes all Catholics in the diocese will continue to pray for the Monastery of Our Lady of Charity and Refuge and that some day the six women will reconcile with the Catholic Church.

It would be interesting to hear the sisters side of the story. Also Msgr. Hebert wants the catholics to pray but not still **pay **for the sisters.

 

[dosdog]

It would be interesting to hear his side of the story…

Families Held Hostage
I am a Catholic who married a Mormon woman. I have always tried to be understanding and supportive of my wife’s religion. Since the wedding, my son and his wife don’t want much to do with me because I won’t convert to Mormonism. The Mormon Church has destroyed my family!
postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/magazine/pmm_article_full_text/203