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John_of_Woking
Guest
The Bit where you get prayed over with hands and fall over. I used to do this at Charismatic services. What is the purpose though? Is it for Healing? Does it build up the Church?
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Mysty101
Guest
It is also called “Resting in the Spirit”.
The falling is a sign of submission to the power of the Holy Spirit. It is a very peaceful feeling Like you trust totally in the Spirit, have given everything to Him and know that He will take care of you–in His time and manner, not yours.
Msgr Walsh (the Revival Parish in Philadelphia) calls it the Holy Spirit’s Operating Table". You rest, and let the Holy Spirit work in you.
Healing prayer will benefit you —regardless of what you do, but when you submit to the Spirit you are welcoming Him into your soul. Remember the picture of Jesus knocking on the door of the hut (which symbolized the human heart)? There is no doorknob on the outside—it must be opened from within.
The falling is a sign of submission to the power of the Holy Spirit. It is a very peaceful feeling Like you trust totally in the Spirit, have given everything to Him and know that He will take care of you–in His time and manner, not yours.
Msgr Walsh (the Revival Parish in Philadelphia) calls it the Holy Spirit’s Operating Table". You rest, and let the Holy Spirit work in you.
Healing prayer will benefit you —regardless of what you do, but when you submit to the Spirit you are welcoming Him into your soul. Remember the picture of Jesus knocking on the door of the hut (which symbolized the human heart)? There is no doorknob on the outside—it must be opened from within.
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
It sounds like a form of contemplative prayer.
Once, maybe 10 years ago, I went to a charismatic conference and did the falling over thing and found it very peaceful. I used to wonder whether it was faked when I saw it on TV and I admit, nothing actually pushed me down, but it seemed like the thing to do at the time especially when the lady on stage whispered, “it’s OK, let go.”
Alan
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Mysty101
Guest
Some people are afraid to fall, so we often try to reassure them that it is OK.
(I pray on a prayer team in a Catholic Church, with our Pastor present)
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John_of_Woking
Guest
Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut. On a more comic level someone I know claims they were pushed
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Mysty101
Guest
John of Woking:
This is not about overcoming your will. If you resist, you will not fall. I have seen many people walking backward to keep from falling, or even grabbing onto our clothing or anything they can grab. This is fine–If you are not open to that manifestation, God will use something else. Man will never limit God.
Actually, it is not a comical situation. But really, if you did not want to fall, a little pressure on your forehead will not knock you down. I do not agree with this, but some people do see people starting to fall, and resisting, so they use a little pressure as well as words of reassurance.Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut. On a more comic level someone I know claims they were pushed
This is not about overcoming your will. If you resist, you will not fall. I have seen many people walking backward to keep from falling, or even grabbing onto our clothing or anything they can grab. This is fine–If you are not open to that manifestation, God will use something else. Man will never limit God.
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misericordie
Guest
“slain in the spirit” is NOT catholic, rather it is PENTECOSTAL fundamentalism at its best. Why do catholics LOVE protestant(many do) behavior or seek to imitate them? Sounds like the montanist heresy.
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misericordie
Guest
if " falling is a sign of submission to the spirit" as you say, then I wonder if on pentecost when the Holy Ghost came upon Mary and the apostles did they “FALL”? It is funny that some who I have know to claim they have experienced this “falling in the spirit” have not even recieved the sacrament of CONFIRMATION. My opinion: psychological mass hysteria.
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Makerteacher
Guest
The Montanists were a kind of early charismatic revival (around 170 AD) featuring gifts of the Spirit including prophecy, but they (as in Toronto and other places) went too far into ecstatic trances, direct revelations from angels and God, and apocalyptic heresies. They believed they were living in the “days of the latter rain” when the Holy Spirit would be poured out upon the church and the world, their own group being the first manifestation of the outpouring. In fact their leader, Montanus, actually believed he was the Holy Spirit Incarnate.
As for the charge of Charismaticism being “Montanism revisited”, that really is a seriously flawed accusation. Montanists were ascetic hermits who rejected the authority of the Church in favor of a “special divine revelation” they claimed they received personally. They did not speak as in prophecies “The Lord says to you…” but as though they themselves were God “I say to you…” They also rejected the trinity. We do none of that. They were anti-intellectuals: we have many fine intellectuals and theologians in our movement. **Furthermore, the Montanist heresy was a HERESY, whereas the Charismatic Renewal has the blessings and support of the Holy See. **
We are unlike Montanists in many ways. We are not ascetics, we do not believe we have “superior knowledge”, we are in FULL obedience with the Holy See, and we are not anti-intellectuals at ALL. (Fr. Paul Hinnebusch was a member of our community: I challenge you to find anything the least bit unorthodox or anti-intellectual about that holy man, now deceased.) frpaulhinnebusch.org/
For a link to the fraternity of communities, go here: www.catholicfraternity.net
For a link to my community, The Christian Community of God’s delight in Dallas, TX, go to www.lumen2000.com
As for the charge of Charismaticism being “Montanism revisited”, that really is a seriously flawed accusation. Montanists were ascetic hermits who rejected the authority of the Church in favor of a “special divine revelation” they claimed they received personally. They did not speak as in prophecies “The Lord says to you…” but as though they themselves were God “I say to you…” They also rejected the trinity. We do none of that. They were anti-intellectuals: we have many fine intellectuals and theologians in our movement. **Furthermore, the Montanist heresy was a HERESY, whereas the Charismatic Renewal has the blessings and support of the Holy See. **
We are unlike Montanists in many ways. We are not ascetics, we do not believe we have “superior knowledge”, we are in FULL obedience with the Holy See, and we are not anti-intellectuals at ALL. (Fr. Paul Hinnebusch was a member of our community: I challenge you to find anything the least bit unorthodox or anti-intellectual about that holy man, now deceased.) frpaulhinnebusch.org/
For a link to the fraternity of communities, go here: www.catholicfraternity.net
For a link to my community, The Christian Community of God’s delight in Dallas, TX, go to www.lumen2000.com
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Makerteacher
Guest
Slain in the Spirit is simple the term used for when you open yourself up to the Holy Spirit, and sincerely MEAN it when you pray, “Come Holy Spirit.” He does.
Sometimes during Catholic Charismatic prayer meetings a gift occurs that is called “Resting in the Spirit” or "Slain in the Spirit St. Therese of Avila used to call it “Flying in the Spirit”, and she had it many times as we read in her life. St Teresa of Avila wrote of a form of prayer which she called “jubilation” — “a strange prayer I don’t understand.” She called it “a deep union of the faculties” and that “all [the soul’s] activity is directed to this praise (Interior Castle 6.6.10).
You asked an excellent question: what does this experience do to serve the Church. My simple answer is that this experience renews and heals the Body of Christ. Persons who experience this resting in the presence of the Holy Spirit come away changed: more peaceful, more devout, hungrier for prayer time and for the Sacraments, strengthened and more able through the grace of God to pursue holiness, to forgive others, to seek reconciliation, to do penance, and practice the gifts of faith.
Sometimes during Catholic Charismatic prayer meetings a gift occurs that is called “Resting in the Spirit” or "Slain in the Spirit St. Therese of Avila used to call it “Flying in the Spirit”, and she had it many times as we read in her life. St Teresa of Avila wrote of a form of prayer which she called “jubilation” — “a strange prayer I don’t understand.” She called it “a deep union of the faculties” and that “all [the soul’s] activity is directed to this praise (Interior Castle 6.6.10).
You asked an excellent question: what does this experience do to serve the Church. My simple answer is that this experience renews and heals the Body of Christ. Persons who experience this resting in the presence of the Holy Spirit come away changed: more peaceful, more devout, hungrier for prayer time and for the Sacraments, strengthened and more able through the grace of God to pursue holiness, to forgive others, to seek reconciliation, to do penance, and practice the gifts of faith.
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Mysty101
Guest
And you are entitled to your opinion.
Charismatics disagree. Please remember that I am speaking of authentic Catholic Charismatics, in communion and under the direction of the Catholic Church.
Just as there are Masses, services and sacraments in other religions which are not practiced as Roman Catholics believe, so are there Charismatics in other Religions who would be considered abuseive in the Catholic Religion. I am not speaking of these non-Catholic Charismatics.
I attend only Catholic Charismatic worship, or ecumenical services with Catholic Priests present.
But also remember the Spirit can and does work wherever He chooses—He is not limited by any human conditions.He is definitely present in other Religions—the Pope has said this.
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Annunciata
Guest
Thanks Makerteacher, for this very enlightening explanation and deeper insights into the fruits of “Resting In The Spirit”…I know it changed my life…
God Bless,
Annunciata
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1_Maria
Guest
Thanks again, Makerteacher. It’s so good to see mature CCR answers to the questions many of us have.
I hope you continue to clarify whatever other questions and concerns for those of us who are sincere in our desire to learn and understand more about the CCR.
Are you in a leadership position within the CCR? You appear to have unity building skills which is so necessary in today’s world.
Maria
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gnome
Guest
Cardinal Suenens said “resting in the Spirit” is a mistake in his
Malign Documents:
parishmissions.com/six.html
And Fr.Bain said the same, not just an opinion but based on his many years CCR experience:
parishmissions.com/resting.html
CCR would not exist if it wasn’t for the support of Cardinal Suenens who was considered CCR top leader. If his statement is known and ignored, then it’s the spirit of disobedience.
Malign Documents:
parishmissions.com/six.html
And Fr.Bain said the same, not just an opinion but based on his many years CCR experience:
parishmissions.com/resting.html
CCR would not exist if it wasn’t for the support of Cardinal Suenens who was considered CCR top leader. If his statement is known and ignored, then it’s the spirit of disobedience.
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Mysty101
Guest
from your document–
As far as what happens when someone falls or rests, there is only the testimony of those who have experienced this to go on. No one ever said this is a necessary part of Healing Prayers, but it does often happen.
and
A healing service is never to be included in the liturgy–This is in the instructions for healing from the Vatican. The Mass is concluded and then there is a service which includes prayers for healing over individuals–usually one at a time.
As far as what happens when someone falls or rests, there is only the testimony of those who have experienced this to go on. No one ever said this is a necessary part of Healing Prayers, but it does often happen.
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1_Maria
Guest
Gnome, do you know when Cardinal Suenens wrote those papers?
Maria
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1_Maria
Guest
1 Maria:
Maria
Oops, never mind. I just checked the link. Sorry about that.
Maria
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misericordie
Guest
ecumenical, ha ha ha. Slain in the spirit would be accurate only if sin is avoided, the hiearchy are obeyed, Mary is not taken out of the picture with the saints, as is the case with many charismatics, and no spectacle like falling or jumbing over chairs(I saw this show once at a Charismatic “service.” No need to imitate protestant pentecostals, there is the Catholic tradition and DEPOSIT OF FAITH already all we need for salvation, no need for novelty.
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Mysty101
Guest
This was a authentic Catholic Charismatic service?
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Madaglan
Guest
Originally Quoted by Mysty101Quote:
Originally Posted by John of Woking
Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut. On a more comic level someone I know claims they were pushed
Just an additional note. I’ve been to three Charismatic healing masses already. At each one I went up for people to pray over me. In not one of them did I feel the presence of the Holy Spirit. In fact, in the last one, I was indeed pushed back. It wasn’t that I wasn’t open to being slain in the spirit, but they were already pushing me back even when the spirit wasn’t working in me yet. I kept on resisting, but eventually they pushed me to the ground, even though I didn’t want to go to the ground when I wasn’t really “slain in the Spirit.” Actually, the guy who was supposed to catch me sorta pulled me down to the ground.
I’m sorry to burst your bubble: but I can say from personal experience that in some cases people do get pushed to the ground even when they have not been slain in the Spirit.
Although I attend a Charismatic prayer group in my area, I have yet to receive any of the special gifts. I am very wary of being slain in the Spirit, for one because it is not Biblical–unlike some other aspects of the Charismatics.
In any case, I honestly don’t know what to make of the Charismatic group to which I go. They are very friendly, but oftentimes they seem more Protestantized than most Catholics. For example, they spoke highly of a priest who claimed to have a “born again” experience when he was given the baptism of the Spirit. I find this really odd because in most other ways they are highly devoted to the Catholic faith.
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