So easy to sin mortally

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goout said:
Hold on a second. Your assertion that all human acts are not chosen doesn’t hold.
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Thus claimeth thee…

The onus is upon you to support that contention with Reasoned Argument.
 
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EndTimes said:
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goout:
Hold on a second. Your assertion that all human acts are not chosen doesn’t hold.
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Thus claimeth thee…

The onus is upon you to support that contention with Reasoned Arguement.
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CCC has a section on freedom and responsibility:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a3.htm

and morality:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a4.htm

Man is rational and therefore like God; he is created with free will and is master over his acts.27
I. FREEDOM AND RESPONSIBILITY
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[1730] God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. "God willed that man should be ‘left in the hand of his own counsel,’ so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him."26
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[1731] Freedom is the power, rooted in reason and will, to act or not to act, to do this or that, and so to perform deliberate actions on one’s own responsibility. By free will one shapes one’s own life. Human freedom is a force for growth and maturity in truth and goodness; it attains its perfection when directed toward God, our beatitude.
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[1749] Freedom makes man a moral subject. When he acts deliberately, man is, so to speak, the father of his acts. Human acts, that is, acts that are freely chosen in consequence of a judgment of conscience, can be morally evaluated. They are either good or evil.
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Point is that man, whether he is culpable or not, chooses his acts.
 
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I don’t understand this. How can one fully consent to a single thought? A single thought simply pops up in your mind. A series of thoughts is more likely to be freely chosen.
 
goout said:
Point is that man, whether he is culpable or not, chooses his acts.
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So you say… yet how does that connect w/the OP
So Easy to Sin Mortally?
You’ve failed to give me an example of how any and all ACTIONS of all Humans
are as the result of a clear choice of one’s intellect/mind…

It does not…

CCC - 1793 If - on the contrary - the ignorance is invincible, or the moral subject is not responsible for his erroneous judgment, the evil committed by the person cannot be imputed to him. It remains no less an evil, a privation, a disorder. One must therefore work to correct the errors of moral conscience
 
EndTimes said:
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goout:
Point is that man, whether he is culpable or not, chooses his acts.
Click to expand...
So you say… yet how does that connect w/the OP
So Easy to Sin Mortally?
You’ve failed to give me an example of how any and all ACTIONS of all Humans
are as the result of a clear choice of one’s intellect/mind…

It does not…

CCC - 1793 If - on the contrary - the ignorance is invincible, or the moral subject is not responsible for his erroneous judgment, the evil committed by the person cannot be imputed to him. It remains no less an evil, a privation, a disorder. One must therefore work to correct the errors of moral conscience
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We are talking past one another.
Man chooses his acts and is responsible for using freedom wisely.
Then we can talk about culpability.
You are conflating a couple different things.
 
@PatK63 I found one where he talks about what you’re saying. He calls it the fundamental option.

He teaches against it from 27 minutes to 33 minutes from Veritatis Splendor.

 
@MiserereMeiDei

This is not addressing the issues I raise. Just to be clear, there are two kinds of sins mortal and venial!
Sin is any offense against almighty God. All sins are terrible and should be avoided.
There are 3 conditions for a sin to be mortal. If one of those conditions are not met and it is an offense it is a venial sin.
I think where you and I differ is that you assume if a person commits the act of adultery by doing the act you believe that they had full consent of the will and knowledge that they are seriously offending God.
I on the other hand believe the intellect and will have to be sufficiently engaged to meet the other 2 requirements and it is difficult to have that degree of rebellious thought and will.
 
You know you are seriously offending God by committing adultery if you know adultery is a mortal sin. You know you’re committing adultery if you’re engaging in sexual relations outside the bond of your marriage. You don’t have to intend to abandon God specifically. If one is even willing to commit a sin one isn’t even sure is mortal and does so it is a mortal sin. This is the teaching of the Church. One needn’t have the consciousness of being cut off from God for the action, consciousness of its classification is enough.
 
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You and I will have to agree to disagree. God gives us every benefit of a doubt. I am afraid if your interpretation was correct very few would get to heaven. I think more humans will get to heaven percentage wise than did the angels. They got 2/3. Jesus died for us so I think we will do better.
 
For a sin to be mortal all 3 following conditions must be fulfilled:
  1. grave matter - i.e. seriousness of the act (may depend on circumstances) - Decalogue and Church precepts are a good guidance.
  2. full consent of will - that means an act is deliberate, not hindered by some physical, psychical or moral impediments (like lack of reason, or - indeed - an addiction)
  3. full knowledge - a knowledge of sinfulness of the act is sufficient - which means even knowledge of the gravity of a matter is not necessary.
 
I feel the same way. I’m 17 tho, so I guess I’m just blessed to be able to not struggle so much with sexual sins as I used to.

But I struggle with serious sins as well, and I need Confession a lot either way, it’s just for other sins.
 
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Our goal shouldn’t be determine what is mortal and then avoid it because what about all the venial sins? There is no need to ask if something is a mortal sin or not because no matter what it is, it’s at least a venial sin and we should avoid those.

We avoid sin not because of the fear of punishment (though that is there) but rather because we love God and want to imitate Jesus who did not sin.

“Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”
- Matthew 5:48
 
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goout said:
We are talking past one another.
Man chooses his acts and is responsible for using freedom wisely.
Then we can talk about culpability.
You are conflating a couple different things.
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No… Not every action a person makes is always a conscious decision.
 
It is. It really is, unfortunately. I’m 24, and I have a horrible time with sins of impurity (solitary) and anger, and speaking negatively. Not to mention, I have a hard time trying to be optimistic, and I’m forever scared that something bad will happen to the world and I’ll die in a state of mortal sin. I don’t want to go to Hell, and I do keep trying to be better and going to frequent confession, but I keep falling into the same traps… 😦
 
EndTimes said:
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goout:
Point is that man, whether he is culpable or not, chooses his acts.
Click to expand...
So you say… yet how does that connect w/the OP
So Easy to Sin Mortally?
You’ve failed to give me an example of how any and all ACTIONS of all Humans
are as the result of a clear choice of one’s intellect/mind…

It does not…

CCC - 1793 If - on the contrary - the ignorance is invincible, or the moral subject is not responsible for his erroneous judgment, the evil committed by the person cannot be imputed to him. It remains no less an evil, a privation, a disorder. One must therefore work to correct the errors of moral conscience**
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Ignorance that is invincible

What’ are we talking about?​

  • The Subject is highly difficult to know and no matter the effort one can’t understand the subject matter
  • or Evidence is scarce
  • or Insufficient mental ability by the individual
One can ask a person then, testing the premise, name a mortal sin that is sooooo difficult to learn and understand, no matter the effort expended to learn the subject, understanding won’t happen. 🤔 Anyone you can think of?

Invincible ignorance then,​

presumes much effort has been made to know and understand a subject, but after much effort expended, one still can’t know or understand the subject.

AND​

Invincible ignorance is not voluntary. It is involuntary. For example, Rejection of knowledge, is a voluntary act, and If one won’t learn because thy don’t want to know, then one cannot claim Invincible Ignorance. A willful and voluntary act not to know, when access to the knowledge is easy to get, then guilt is imputed to them if they sin. ignorance is called invincible, when it cannot be overcome by study. For this reason such ignorance, not being voluntary, since it is not in our power to be rid of it, is not a sin: So ignorance about things one can know, and is bound to know, but refuses to investigate, is intentional ignorance, It is NOT innocent, and

Therefore​

Invincible ignorance , can’t automatically be presumed.

AND​

1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man “takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin.” In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.

Bottom line, mortal sin is a cinch to commit
 
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QuD said:
For a sin to be mortal all 3 following conditions must be fulfilled:
  1. grave matter - i.e. seriousness of the act (may depend on circumstances) - Decalogue and Church precepts are a good guidance.
  2. full consent of will - that means an act is deliberate, not hindered by some physical, psychical or moral impediments (like lack of reason, or - indeed - an addiction)
  3. full knowledge - a knowledge of sinfulness of the act is sufficient - which means even knowledge of the gravity of a matter is not necessary.
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This is actually incorrect – Switch 2 and 3

Grave Matter alone - does not constitute the 3 necessary Categories

Neither does one’s Knowing that a sin committed is Mortal (Condition 2)

Full Consent is the least understood Condition… .

It connects with wanting to offend God. Which then becomes call it a Full Blown Mortal Sin

We’re not in the position to know the hearts/souls of others - Only GOD Does
That said:
SATAN is an example of one whom we could say with confidence - fulfilled all 3 conditions…

I
 
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