So just what are the beliefs that are mandatory for salvation

[polgas733]

I just notice that you disagree with Jimy Akin, a fellow Catholic.

Jimy Akin is a noted Catholic apologist and author.

You are an anonymous poster over the internet.

Now why would I disagree with Jimmy Akins?
in order to be Catholic one must be baptized right?
did I say not that baptismal is a requirement for salvation?

and In order to obtain salvation a Catholic needs to confess and recieve communion. and where else could you recieve those sacraments? In a Catholic Church
How hard is that to understand?

how will you obtain salvation without the Catholic Church?

 

[choy]

Just asking the question?

Please provide support for your assertions.

everything that Jesus taught

otherwise, He wouldn’t have mentioned it if it was optional

thats why i scratch my heads at these “Born Again Christians” who keep repeating like a broken record (or a scratched CD), “you must be born again! you must be born again! you must be born again!” while agree with them in that aspect, i as a Catholic also know that there are many other teachings and commandments that come from Jesus that we must also follow in order to be saved and in order to follow Him.

 

[sablouwho]

everything that Jesus taught

otherwise, He wouldn’t have mentioned it if it was optional

But does Jesus actually say “In order to attain salvation, you must believe everything that I have taught?”

Consider that he sometimes taught in parables when dealing with “the general public” yet from the gospels it is clear that not everyone understood what he meant, and he knew this. It would be condemning a lot of people who didn’t even understand him if it was a requirement to believe everything he taught when not all those beliefs were even understood.

At least, that is how I’m reasoning this one out…

AP–you’re pretty skilled with logic–are you following me here or have I messed this up?

 

[AmateurPianist]

But does Jesus actually say “In order to attain salvation, you must believe everything that I have taught?”

Consider that he sometimes taught in parables when dealing with “the general public” yet from the gospels it is clear that not everyone understood what he meant, and he knew this. It would be condemning a lot of people who didn’t even understand him if it was a requirement to believe everything he taught when not all those beliefs were even understood.

At least, that is how I’m reasoning this one out…

AP–you’re pretty skilled with logic–are you following me here or have I messed this up?

Yes, this is the same thing that I am asking. There are a lot of commandments in the Bible to keep. And obviously, if they are commandments in the Bible there is some level of importance to keeping them. But the question is whether the level of importance is always on the level you have eternal life / you don’t have eternal life.

To be honest the answers to my question have been all over the wall here, and therefore I really don’t know where to go with this thread.

When I read Jimmy Akin, he sort of makes Catholicism semi-appealing. Yeah if I study it in details, I am sure I will have some quibbles with it, but big picture nothing all that bad. When I read some of the answers to my question, they make Catholicism sound like some of its worst Protestant critics say that it is, just another works based religion.

Maybe the issue is salvation viewed as past, present, future. And this ties with a thread I started a long time on the issue of mortal sin. In that thread, there was a majority and minority Catholic opinion. The majority Catholic opinion was that my eternal destiny was sort of like a light bulb…changing state on,off,on,off. For example if I miss mass to go skiing and don’t get confession…state goes off. The minority Catholic opinion was that it is not like that, and closer to what I would call classic Wesleyan arminianism.

The majority opinion was and remains very unappealing to me. The minority is tolerable and might not be all that much different from what I believe.

And to be honest I don’t know how much time and energy I have to get into all of the issues and questions this thread suggests. I am not going to spend time and energy hashing out issues I explored in that thread a while back.

 

[polgas733]

Yes, this is the same thing that I am asking. There are a lot of commandments in the Bible to keep. And obviously, if they are commandments in the Bible there is some level of importance to keeping them. But the question is whether the level of importance is always on the level you have eternal life / you don’t have eternal life.

To be honest the answers to my question have been all over the wall here, and therefore I really don’t know where to go with this thread.

When I read Jimmy Akin, he sort of makes Catholicism semi-appealing. Yeah if I study it in details, I am sure I will have some quibbles with it, but big picture nothing all that bad. When I read some of the answers to my question, they make Catholicism sound like some of its worst Protestant critics say that it is, just another works based religion.

Maybe the issue is salvation viewed as past, present, future. And this ties with a thread I started a long time on the issue of mortal sin. In that thread, there was a majority and minority Catholic opinion. The majority Catholic opinion was that my eternal destiny was sort of like a light bulb…changing state on,off,on,off. For example if I miss mass to go skiing and don’t get confession…state goes off. The minority Catholic opinion was that it is not like that, and closer to what I would call classic Wesleyan arminianism.

The majority opinion was and remains very unappealing to me. The minority is tolerable and might not be all that much different from what I believe.

And to be honest I don’t know how much time and energy I have to get into all of the issues and questions this thread suggests. I am not going to spend time and energy hashing out issues I explored in that thread a while back.

here is what a nun has to say about salvation

"God is infinitely merciful. To be forgiven of sins requires that we repent of them. God will give the grace of repentance to all who ask. But if a person deliberately and freely rejects that grace, God cannot force the person to choose salvation.
It is a mystery, to be sure. But no one goes to hell unless the person freely chooses to do so by choosing sin over God, and stubbornly persisting in that sin even at the point of death.
In her diary, St Faustina writes that Jesus told her that he comes to every person at the point of death with graces for salvation. God is love and mercy itself. Yet the mystery of our free will remains.
The Catholic Catechism says, “God predestines no one to go to hell; for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end… the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want ‘any to perish, but all to come to repentance.’ (no. 1037).
God bless you!
Sr M Lorraine”

On and Off like a light bulb is the choice of man

 

[AmateurPianist]

But does Jesus actually say “In order to attain salvation, you must believe everything that I have taught?”

Consider that he sometimes taught in parables when dealing with “the general public” yet from the gospels it is clear that not everyone understood what he meant, and he knew this. It would be condemning a lot of people who didn’t even understand him if it was a requirement to believe everything he taught when not all those beliefs were even understood.

At least, that is how I’m reasoning this one out…

AP–you’re pretty skilled with logic–are you following me here or have I messed this up?

Yes, this is the same thing that I am asking. There are a lot of commandments in the Bible to keep. And obviously, if they are commandments in the Bible there is some level of importance to keeping them. But the question is whether the level of importance is always on the level you have eternal life / you don’t have eternal life.

To be honest the answers to my question have been all over the wall here, and therefore I really don’t know where to go with this thread.

When I read Jimmy Akin, he sort of makes Catholicism semi-appealing. Yeah if I study it in details, I am sure I will have some quibbles with it, but big picture nothing all that bad. When I read some of the answers to my question, they make Catholicism sound like some of its worst Protestant critics say that it is, just another works based religion.

Maybe the issue is salvation viewed as past, present, future. And this ties with a thread I started a long time on the issue of mortal sin. In that thread, there was a majority and minority Catholic opinion. The majority Catholic opinion was that my eternal destiny was sort of like a light bulb…changing state on,off,on,off. For example if I miss mass to go skiing and don’t get confession…state goes off. The minority Catholic opinion was that it is not like that, and closer to what I would call classic Wesleyan arminianism.

The majority opinion was and remains very unappealing to me. The minority is tolerable and might not be all that much different from what I believe.

And to be honest I don’t know how much time and energy I have to get into all of the issues and questions this thread suggests. I am not going to spend time and energy hashing out issues I explored in that thread a while back.

 

[schaick]

Hey - I just posted on another thread about this so I had a list started. if you can find any other please add to the list:

Look at what we need for salvation:

2 Timothy 3
15and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Romans 1
16I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

Romans 10
9That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Ephesians 1
13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

1 Peter 1
8Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

John 3
5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

Mark 16
15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.”

Matthew 10
32 “Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.”

John 14
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

2 Corinthians 7
10Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.

Yes, I know these are all actions, can they be seperated out? You have to believe that you must repent, be baptized?

Hear GOD’s Word.

Believe the Gospel of Salvation

Repent

Be Baptized

Trust and Acknowledge

 

[graceandglory]

Just asking the question?

Please provide support for your assertions.

Love God. Hate sin.

Shouldn’t the question be What MORE can I do to show God I love Him and want to serve and obey Him, rather than, what’s the least common denominator that will get me to heaven?

 

[sablouwho]

Shouldn’t the question be What MORE can I do to show God I love Him and want to serve and obey Him, rather than, what’s the least common denominator that will get me to heaven?

Y’know, Amateur Pianist, the OP, is asking a philosophical question, and in no way did I read his query as wanting to “skate by while doing the absolute minimum”! He is earnestly trying to understand something. I don’t think that implying he was looking for an easy way out!

 

[JRKH]

Y’know, Amateur Pianist, the OP, is asking a philosophical question, and in no way did I read his query as wanting to “skate by while doing the absolute minimum”! He is earnestly trying to understand something. I don’t think that implying he was looking for an easy way out!

Well Said

The Catholic faith, havinge developed over 2000 years, can certainly seem confusing and daunting.

The fact of the matter is that the “beliefs” necessary for salvation all boil down to the simple statement of Christ in the First two commandments.
Mt 22:36-40 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And He said to him, " YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' 38 "This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 "The second is like it, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ 40 “On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”
It is, at once, the simplest and most difficult command ever given.

All of the Dogmas. All of the Doctrines, All of the disciplines and practices of The Church grow from, and point back to, this basic premise.

Millions upon billions of words have been spoken and written trying to expound upon and explain this basic requirement.

Of course to star one must have faith in God and int Christ who gives us this teaching.
One must wish sincerely to follow Christ with all of his heart, soul, and mind.
One must be willing to seek humility and obedience to God’s will in ones life.

So -to the OP, be patient with yourself as you explore the Faith. We who are also on that journey will help all we can.

Peace
James

 

[paul_c]

I’d like to simplify all this if I might.

To get to heaven, you must be in the state of grace when you die. Being in the state of grace means you have the gift of God’s life within you.

God’ gift of grace is free but you must accept this gift willingly. This is normally done through baptism in the name of the Father, the son and the Holy Spirit. If you desire baptism but are prevented from getting baptized, the Church sensibly teaches that God will accept this as a baptism of desire.

Once baptized, you are in the state of grace. However, you can fall from grace through mortal sin. To stay in the state of grace, you must avoid sin by loving God and neighbor. If you fail to love and instead sin, you can return to the state of Grace through the sacrament of reconciliation.

The Catholic Church recognizes certain non-Catholic baptisms as valid, as long as they are conducted with the Catholic formula (Pouring or immersing in water three times while being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit). So Christians who aren’t formally Catholics can clearly be in the state of Grace and thus can reach heaven if they do what the Church teaches : avoiding sin, while loving God and Neighbor. In effect, those that do this are living as Catholics are called to live, without being formal members of the Catholic Church.

So why is it an advantage to be a formal Catholic? The most important advantages are being able to partake in the sacraments, particularly the eucharist and the sacrament of reconciliation. When we partake of Jesus’ body and blood in the eucharist, Jesus physically becomes part of us and we gain the graces to do the good works to which we are called. And if we sin, we need the sacrament of reconciliation to get back into the state of grace. It is very difficult to live without sin, doubly so without the graces from the eucharist, so the chances of getting to heaven without these two sacraments are severely reduced if not impossible. Remember, in John 6, Jesus says that if you don’t eat his body and drink his blood, you have no life within you.

The other advantage of being a Catholic is you benefit from the traditions and the community in your journey toward holiness. This journey has been taken by Catholics for 2000 years. We help each other through prayer and example, with all kinds of devotions and charitible acts to help us follow Jesus more closely…

 

[SteveVH]

That Jesus established ONE Church and It is definitely not Christianity.
For Christianity has no unity, harmony maybe
and in order to be a man of God, one needs to be baptised of water and spirit
New covenant with God = water baptismal
Old covenant = circumcision

“When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

I find your post extremely disturbing. As a Catholic, do you not know that we are Christians? We were the only Christian Church for 1500 years. This is a charge leveled at us by some other Christian denominations - that Catholics are not Christians. As a Catholic, please do not reinforce this fallacy.

 

[TheosisM]

We were the only Christian Church for 1500 years.

Besides the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Assyrian Churches of the East.

 

[sablouwho]

Besides the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Assyrian Churches of the East.

Dude!

Glad to see you on this thread, I always enjoy your observations!

 

[TEPO]

Jesus died on the cross for the “forgiveness of sins”… That is what Salvation is…
There are 4 parts of Salvation… We must do them all as much as needed and in the right order -to be “saved”…

1. sanctification: To be made holy by Baptism.
2. redemption: This is where Jesus saved us on the cross.
3. forgiveness: Confession means sins are actually removed from the soul…
4. justification: True sorrow / Perfect Contrition.

agapebiblestudy.com/docum…0Salvation.htm

To be saved is to be given medicine. A Holy medicine that cures death.

 

[TheosisM]

Dude!

Glad to see you on this thread, I always enjoy your observations!

Haha thanks, I just try to take a step back and be objective (or as objective as possible).

 

[SteveVH]

Besides the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Assyrian Churches of the East.

Yes, I am aware of that. I consider them all under the Catholic umbrella as we basically hold the same doctrines and have valid sacraments.

 

[TEPO]

I read that other article and nowhere do I find him stating this long laundry list of other beliefs that are mandatory for salvation. Sorry, but I did not see it there either.

Sorry, but the “Church with Jesus Christ as its Head” teaches that salvation is a 4 part process that includes justification, but is not limited to justification…

Justification is an act of “Perfect Contrition”…

 

[wisdomseeker]

Just asking the question?

Please provide support for your assertions.

Obedience to God is the key to Salvation.

how do you know you are in obedience to God? is the big question.

the Bible has many teachings to instruct us in the way of God?

where do you receive these teachings in all its intirity with a full understanding?

all the Apostles tought the people in the Church what is necessary for Salvation. find the Church and you will receive the Teachings.

first, Baptism to enter the Church, must be obedient to the authority in the Church Jesus found and stablished authority over the people.

Good luck.

 

[dnu]

Remember that Catholicism teaches that salvation is attained at death. Many Protest-ant sects teach that it is imputed at birth.

We have to be careful of not being guilit of equivocation. We want to make sure we have our terms defined.