Socialized healthcare

[coda]

Has the Church shown any favor towards universal healthcare? I personally think it is a bad idea, but I am also **Catholic first **and I am willing to consider anything that the Church favors. I am interested in any quotes from Vatican about this topic. Thank you!

Ask any doctor if they would even want to continue to practice medicine under such a system…

 

[ribozyme]

Don’t stop at free refrigerators!

I need a complete set of pre-'64 Model 70 Winchesters – from .22 Hornet to .458 Magnum. While they’re at it, they should throw in a collection of Model 52 .22 rifles, Model 12 and 21 shotguns, and one each of every gun Colt ever made.

Then I need a free trip to Alaska and one to Africa every year.

I probably ought to have a Lear Jet (paid for by the government, of course) so I can fly to other hunting areas.

It would be nice if the government would fly in a 4X4 to meet me at the airport wherever I go, and take me out to the hunting areas and bring me back.

Why are you saying this? No liberal would propose that as a form of “entitlement.”

 

[vern_humphrey]

Allow me to recount a personal experience with socialized medicine.

Last year, I was discussing the possibility of getting hearing aids with a friend.

Me: “I could really use them, but they’re so expensive!”

My friend: “You have the Purple Heart. Get them through the VA – they’re free.”

Me: “Not hearing aids – the government refuses to accept hearing loss as a combat-related disability.”

My friend: “Doesn’t matter – you have a Purple Heart, so you’re a Category 3 veteran. They’ll provide them.”

So I decided to experiment – first of all, how do you sign up with VA? There’s a website, but it kept locking up my computer. So I started calling 1-800 numbers.

Standard response was: “We don’t handle applications, but I’ll transfer you to someone who does.” I got VA offices and branches in at least five states. Finally someone said, “I’ll mail you the form.”

I got the form and filled out it. It took several phone calls to learn where to mail it.

The form was sent back, “You forgot your DD 214.” The form doesn’t ask for a DD 214. But I put in my DD 214 and sent it on.

Months passed. I started calling to check the status of my application.

Standard response was: “We don’t handle applications, but I’ll transfer you to someone who does.” I got VA offices and branches in more than five states. Finally someone said, “I processed your application.”

Me: “Was it approved?”

Voice on phone: “I don’t know. I only processed it.”

Back to the phone. Standard response was: “We don’t handle that, but I’ll transfer you to someone who does.”

I never found out if my application was approved. But finally I got someone who asked, “Have you been to your healthcare provider?”

Me: “Yes, I was at the doctor’s office yesterday.”

Disembodied voice: “What did he tell you?”

Me: “That I also need an MRI on my back.”

Disembodied voice: "Is he a VA healthcare provider?’

Me: “I’m not sure. How can I tell?”

Disembodied voice: “Does he work in a VA clinic?”

Me: “No.”

Disembodied voice: “You have to have a healthcare provider at your VA clinic.”

Me: “I don’t have a VA clinic.”

Disembodied voice: “I can mail you a list of VA clinics, or you can get a list off the VA website.”

So I found a VA clinic – in a town 50 miles away – and called them.

Disembodied voice: “You’re not enrolled.”

Me: “How do I get enrolled?”

Disembodied voice: “You ask me to enroll you. But we’ve stopped accepting enrollments until May.”

Me: “So I’m approved for VA assistance?”

Disembodied voice: “I don’t know.”

Me: “How can we find out?”

Disembodied voice: “When I start enrolling veterans in May, I’ll see if your name is on the list.”

Me: “Then what?”

Disembodied voice: “If you’re on the list, I’ll make an appointment for you.”

Me: “Then can I get hearing aids?”

Disembodied voice: “If your primary care physician determines you should be examined at the audio clinic in Little Rock, he’ll make an appointment for you.”

So here we stand – half a year after starting the process, I still don’t know if they’ll do anything for me. If I’m accepted, I drive a hundred mile round-trip to have a VA doctor tell me what my local doctor already told me.

Then I’ll be authorized to drive a 250 mile round trip to a clinic that will tell me the same thing the clinic down the street from my local doctor told me.

If their medical care is anything like their bureaucracy, they’ll probably wind up giving me a hemorrhoidectomy instead of hearing aids.

Socialized medicine!

 

[vern_humphrey]

Why are you saying this? No liberal would propose that as a form of “entitlement.”

For the past five years, I’ve been trying to buy a tractor – I really need one. Each year, I successfully saved enough to buy a tractor.

In April of each year, the IRS and state tax office took those savings away from me. And that’s over and above what I already paid.

Now, if I pay enough each year extra to buy a tractor – ain’t I entitled to at least one trip to Alaska at taxpayer expense? Especially since the taxpayer is me?

 

[ribozyme]

For the past five years, I’ve been trying to buy a tractor – I really need one. Each year, I successfully saved enough to buy a tractor.

In April of each year, the IRS and state tax office took those savings away from me. And that’s over and above what I already paid.

Now, if I pay enough each year extra to buy a tractor – ain’t I entitled to at least one trip to Alaska at taxpayer expense? Especially since the taxpayer is me?

So the United States has a wealth tax… I didn’t know that.

 

[vern_humphrey]

So the United States has a wealth tax… I didn’t know that.

You didn’t know the United States has an income tax?

 

[ribozyme]

You didn’t know the United States has an income tax?

You said they took it from your savings… so it sounded like a wealth tax.

 

[vern_humphrey]

You said they took it from your savings… so it sounded like a wealth tax.

You really don’t understand how the Income Tax works, do you?

 

[BamaRider]

Dang Vern, the only thing funnier than* that *story is the fact ya got some people lining up to get them some health care just like it!

You really don’t understand how the Income Tax works, do you?

How can he? He doesn’t have a job.

 

[Al_Masetti]

Don’t stop at free refrigerators!

I need a complete set of pre-'64 Model 70 Winchesters – from .22 Hornet to .458 Magnum. While they’re at it, they should throw in a collection of Model 52 .22 rifles, Model 12 and 21 shotguns, and one each of every gun Colt ever made.

Then I need a free trip to Alaska and one to Africa every year.

I probably ought to have a Lear Jet (paid for by the government, of course) so I can fly to other hunting areas.

It would be nice if the government would fly in a 4X4 to meet me at the airport wherever I go, and take me out to the hunting areas and bring me back.

Oncet upon a time, I worked at a bureaucracy.

One day one of the clerks went off on sick leave and we had to look for stuff on our own. Found a whole bank of filing cabinets with nothing but forms, neatly arranged. Found the most unbelievable things.

They even had a form to order forms.

With the right form and a charge code, you could do pretty much anything.

Learned that there were two primary questions that solved everything:

1. Is there a form for that?
2. Do you have a charge code?

It was incredible.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Dang Vern, the only thing funnier than* that *story is the fact ya got some people lining up to get them some health care just like it!

How can he? He doesn’t have a job.

One of these days some holier-than-thou type is going to say, “Gee, maybe*** I*** need to get to work and earn more so I can pay my fair share.”

And I’ll have a heart attack when I read it.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Oncet upon a time, I worked at a bureaucracy.

One day one of the clerks went off on sick leave and we had to look for stuff on our own. Found a whole bank of filing cabinets with nothing but forms, neatly arranged. Found the most unbelievable things.

And how else would the work of the agency get done, with blank post its? The forms are there for a reason. In some cases, they’re there to ensure that the employees are complying with the procedures the law requires and to protect the agency from getting into trouble during an audit or when someone requests a copy of their records.

They even had a form to order forms.

And probably other things as well. That’s how things work in any big organization. If you order things using a company charge card, you still have to complete a form justifying what you bought. You don’t want people using a company charge card buying stuff for themselves.

With the right form and a charge code, you could do pretty much anything.

Not without an authorized signature.

Learned that there were two primary questions that solved everything:

1. Is there a form for that?

1. Do you have a charge code?

It was incredible.

How simplistic. It’s almost always more complex than that.

 

[ribozyme]

One of these days some holier-than-thou type is going to say, “Gee, maybe*** I*** need to get to work and earn more so I can pay my fair share.”

And I’ll have a heart attack when I read it.

Well, not everyone can earn more money. Not everyone is fortunate to get paid “two and twenty” as a hedge fund manager so they can donate millions to charitable causes like George Soros.

 

[Filius99993]

Well, not everyone can earn more money. Not everyone is fortunate to get paid “two and twenty” as a hedge fund manager so they can donate millions to charitable causes like George Soros.

Or less charitable causes…

 

[vern_humphrey]

Well, not everyone can earn more money. Not everyone is fortunate to get paid “two and twenty” as a hedge fund manager so they can donate millions to charitable causes like George Soros.

Already making excuses for our anticipated future failure to succeed, are we?

If all who can work would work – and work up to potential – we’d have very few poor people in this country. And we’d easily be able to support those few, with so many others contributing.

 

[BamaRider]

Hey Vern you’ve been around a place or two in this world, so tell me, how hard does a guy hafta to work to be poor in this country?

My point is, you could probably take people like the Ribo to places where folks are really *poor *No?

 

[vern_humphrey]

Hey Vern you’ve been around a place or two in this world, so tell me, how hard does a guy hafta to work to be poor in this country?

Too hard. I once took courses from a fairly emement sociologist who said, “The one thing you can’t do in this country is starve. Try it, and people will drag you out of the ditch and force you to eat.”

My point is, you could probably take people like the Ribo to places where folks are really *poor *No?

Places like the Peruvian desert, the slums and cemetaries of Cario (where people live in the tombs), the highlands of Viet Nam, North Korea, Malaysia, and so on.

Yeah – he has no idea what real poverty is.

Nor real work, either, I suspect.

 

[BamaRider]

And how else would the work of the agency get done, with blank post its? The forms are there for a reason. In some cases, they’re there to ensure that the employees are complying with the procedures the law requires and to protect the agency from getting into trouble during an audit or when someone requests a copy of their records.

And probably other things as well. That’s how things work in any big organization. If you order things using a company charge card, you still have to complete a form justifying what you bought. You don’t want people using a company charge card buying stuff for themselves.

Not without an authorized signature.

How simplistic. It’s almost always more complex than that.

No it ain’t. There are TWO standards. The private sector and govt institutions.

My son works in the insurance field, claims specialists. In the aftermath of accidents his company is called upon to reimburse BCBS and other private insurance agencies after they have paid the inital medical bills. They seek to recover thoee expenses from the insurers automobile policy if the the person has such a rider in effect.

They also reimburse medicare/aid when their patients are treated in the ER. He says he has a stack of claims he can’t close out because medicare has yet to furnish his company with the bill and related papwerwork. He has files that are 3 years old. He advised the average lag from accident to closing the claim is 2-3 YEARS when dealing with a medicare patient.

When dealing with BCBS, less than 10 days, often times 7 days or less. From the time BCBS notifies them they have a claim, to him sending the check. I can promise ya NOBODY in the medicare office is gonna work weekends or overtime to catch up.

He tells me, the lag time when dealing with ANY govt agency is just part of doing business. It is built in to his company, they don’t lke it, but there it is. It is inherint for the DMV, Courts, City Hall, Vital Statistics to be sloooooooooow places.

Bad service, ineptness will kill a business, but in the govt those things don’t matter, because folks are held hostage to whatever the mood happens to be that day.

 

[goofyjim]

What are you trying to say – that not only healthcare, but also food, transportation, clothing and housing should be socialized?

It seems to me that you are the one who wants the whole world to be “the same as in your back neighborhood.”

If it takes socialization to guarantee them so be it. Unless you think people should just starve in economically hard times or go w/o clothing or housing. I didn’t mention transportation BTW. But the rest are basic requirements and should not be denied to anybody. Let’s stop the holier than thou approach from those who happen to be blessed with work and good paying jobs.

 

[pathia]

Hey Vern you’ve been around a place or two in this world, so tell me, how hard does a guy hafta to work to be poor in this country?

My point is, you could probably take people like the Ribo to places where folks are really *poor *No?

I don’t know, it’s all relative. I’ve been homeless, had to beg for food (I always asked for food, not money), foraged around dumpsters at fast food joints,they throw out ‘good stuff’ all the time! Slept under overpasses, in hedges and dark alleys. I’m 6’ and I weighed 115lbs, that’s a BMI of 15.6, 18.5 and below is underweight mind, qualified as starvation.

All this so I could pay for a preventive blood test to make sure I wasn’t dying, an ER wouldn’t do it because I wasn’t actively sick. I lied to my doctor and told him I was bulimic instead to explain by hideously undernourished self, because being homeless is incredibly embarrassing.

Are there worse places to be and states to be in? Of course, there is ALWAYS someone doing worse, just like there’s always someone doing better than you. It goes both ways, but it still is pretty darn miserable.