'Sola Caritas' Trumps 'Sola fide'

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Well pretty close with not by works of the law or works of righteousness are we justified. He might not say “faith alone” but he certainly excludes works in said scriptures. If not “alone” what do you think he had in mind?
He excludes works of the law because he was Jewish and often speaking to the Jews! Catholics have never once ever said in the history of the Church that we have to keep works of the old law in order to be justified, ever!

There are works of the law.

There are works of the flesh.

There are works of charity.

There are even works of the Spirit!

Did you know that???
 
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Protestants look at what Paul had to say and ignore everything else like the proverbial ostrich who sticks his head in the sand.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure it out just an open mind and a desire for truth.
Perhaps. There’s no question that I - as with all Protestants - are sinners all. As sinners, sometimes we do play the ostrich, sometimes we focus too much on the wrong things and sometimes we simply stray. Thank God for his mercy and love.

Speaking of love - I do recall though (even with my head in the sand), that Jesus said something about loving our neighbors - even if they’re Samaritans (or Protestants?!) Somehow I don’t think referring to your neighbor as ignorant and implying them untruthful was what he had in mind? That said, maybe I misunderstood your post. If so, my apologies. It’s hard sometimes to read with my head so firmly implanted in the sand.

I will say, you seem to know a great deal about Protestant theology and practice. How long were you a Protestant before you became a Catholic, and what denomination were you? Thanks.
 
James said point blank that justification does not come by faith alone.
Yes, but other verses from him leave the door open for synthesis with Paul’s “not by works”, just as Paul’s other verses clearly shows role of works.
 
Yes, but other verses from him leave the door open for synthesis with Paul’s “not by works”, just as Paul’s other verses clearly shows role of works.
A) works of the law

B) works of the flesh

C) works of charity

D) works of the Spirit
 
Catholics have never once ever said in the history of the Church that we have to keep works of the old law in order to be justified, ever!
Not sure about “church” but certainly a few Catholic posters here might cringe when you say that works dealing with old law are not part of works that justify along with faith.

Agree in one verse he speaks of Law, but in another he explicitly cites “works of righteousness”, which to me means can be apart from law…I mean he was apostle to Gentiles.
There are even works of the Spirit!

Did you know that???
Exactly. Our salvation is the work of God.
 
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Not sure about “church” but certainly a few posters here might cringe when you say that works dealing with old law are not part of works that justify along with faith.

Agree in one verse he speaks of Law, but in another he explicitly cites “works of righteousness”, which to me means can be apart from law…I mean he was apostle to Gentiles.
Works of charity and works of the law often overlap but they are not the same. I don’t know many Catholics who keep the sabbath so your statement is flawed.
 
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Works of charity and works of the law often overlap but they are not the same. I don’t know many Catholics who keep the sabbath so your statement is flawed.
Ok, so we are down to 9 commandments more we need not keep?
 
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I will say, you seem to know a great deal about Protestant theology and practice. How long were you a Protestant before you became a Catholic, and what denomination were you? Thanks.
I was raised Lutheran and converted to Orthodoxy later in life so I know all your tricks like the back of my hand.
 
Ok, so we are down to 9 commandments more we need not keep?
Works of charity and works of the law often overlap and are similar but they are not the same for the 2nd time. Also the Church has canon law which we are commanded to keep but once again this is not the old Jewish law that Paul was speaking of.
 
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Another Protestant fallacy is every time the word Law is mentioned they always go to the ten commandments which is complete ignorance of the Scriptures. When Christ or Paul referenced the Law it was always the Torah not the ten commandments. The Law was the first five books of Moses not the ten commandments that Moses smashed into bits in a fit of rage.
 
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Another Protestant fallacy is every time the word Law is mentioned they always go to the ten commandments which is complete ignorance of the Scriptures. When Christ or Paul referenced the Law it was always the Torah not the ten commandments. The Law was the first five books of Moses not the ten commandments that Moses smashed into bits in a fit of rage.
Thank you but I am not the one suggesting the keeping the ten or the other 600 justifies but one Catholic or
two here differ with you…but that is ok as you can guess from my differences with Protestant friends.

Oh, and the Ten Commandments are in the Torah.
 
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not sure about “church” but certainly a few Catholic posters here might cringe when you say that works dealing with old law are not part of works that justify along with faith.
I’ve never ever heard a Catholic say that we are to do works of the old law but instead the works of charity as taught by Christ.

Even if a Catholic did think that he would be mistaken. Because Catholics do not follow individual ideas people have but Church teaching. If we are in conflict with the Church it is we who are wrong.
 
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I’ve never ever heard a Catholic say that we are to do works of the old law but instead the works of charity as taught by Christ.
Well, only on this thread one or two do.

Don"t get me wrong. I am partly with you on this. That is the less works needed for justification one presents the better I like it!
 
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James said point blank that justification does not come by faith alone.
Once and for all: James did not say that.

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He writes that we are not only justified by faith (the word “only” is an adverb that qualifies the verb “justify”) but also by works. There is nothing in that verse that indicates that he contradicts Paul’s teaching in Romans 4 that Abraham was justified by faith (and not by works) when he believed the promise.
 
There is nothing in that verse that indicates that he contradicts Paul’s teaching in Romans 4 that Abraham was justified by faith (and not by works) when he believed the promise.
Pretty sure this has been said several times in this thread but the works Paul speaks of in Romans and other places is the OT Mosaic law. He is not referring to the obedience we need to give to the NT laws of Christ.

Abraham’s justification was a process, he believed, he obeyed and he continued to obey, though had his incidence with Hagar where he slipped in his faith.

If Abraham had not obeyed and “did” not do what he was instructed to do, he would not have continued in righteousness, he would not have received the promises.
 
Thank you but I am not the one suggesting the keeping the ten or the other 600 justifies but one Catholic or
two here differ with you…but that is ok as you can guess from my differences with Protestant friends.

Oh, and the Ten Commandments are in the Torah.
Well you would think after 500 years at least a few protestants would figure this out. Ever hear of the law and the prophets? The prophets were all the writings of the prophets not just 10 sayings of the prophets.
 
Once and for all: James did not say that.

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He writes that we are not only justified by faith (the word “only” is an adverb that qualifies the verb “justify”) but also by works. There is nothing in that verse that indicates that he contradicts Paul’s teaching in Romans 4 that Abraham was justified by faith (and not by works) when he believed the promise.
LOL. Protestant scholarship at its best.

James also said:

Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. (Jas 5:14,15)

Sounds almost verbatim to the sacrament of Holy Unction.
 
Pretty sure this has been said several times in this thread but the works Paul speaks of in Romans and other places is the OT Mosaic law. He is not referring to the obedience we need to give to the NT laws of Christ.
Well of course he writes to Jews in book of Hebrews but the other books i would think were mostly with gentiles in mind. To Titus, a gentile, he writes we are not saved “by works of righteousness”. I would think that would be much more inclusive than just Jewish law.
 
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