Sola Scriptura questions

[PRmerger]

Where do they say this? And what would be “sufficient enough?”

That is the exact wrong question to ask–what’s “sufficient enough”? What’s the minimal amount of contact with my Beloved that is required?

 

[Javl]

Please read the following concerning Sola Scriptura ( of course there will be those that will reject this )

…thecatholictreasurechest.com/sorigin.htm…

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Jesus said those who did the will of His Father will enter the kingdom of God.

Jesus said those who fed the hungry, gave water to the thirsty, clothe the naked, etc did all those to Him so He will say to them - Now enter into the home of my Father.

Jesus said you are Peter and upon this rock I will build my church then He prayed that His church be one.

Jesus said to His apostles, who ever hears you, hears Me.

Jesus said My flesh is food indeed, My blood is drink indeed. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood will have eternal life.

And He said all these things in the bible.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

That is the exact wrong question to ask–what’s “sufficient enough”? What’s the minimal amount of contact with my Beloved that is required?

Actually there were two questions Look 3467 stated. So, if I come into the knowledge of our Lord and Savior saving my soul, and know and understand that it is by His spirit that my heart is being converted, is that not sufficient enough? To which you answered.

:
Sadly, the Scriptures say it is not.

Where do the scriptures say that coming to Jesus is not sufficient?

And the next question is NOT what the minimal contact would be. You say that comming to Jesus would not be enough. I would like to know in your opinion What else is needed besides a faith in the sacrifice of Jesus? In other words what would be “sufficient enough?”

 

[benedictus2]

And He said all these things in the bible.

Aah Richard, you completely missed the point.

This is what He said in the Bible I agree and according to the Bible these are the things that we should follow which is much more than just having faith in Christ.

You are so right. It is in the Bible. So with your love for the Bible how come

1. you do not belong to His Church
2. You are not eating His Body and Drinking His Blood
3. You do not listen to those who He has appointed to shepherd His flock
4. You are not following His Will as expressed by all the things that i have written down which you agree with me come from the Bible?

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Aah Richard, you completely missed the point.
I would have to say the same about you.

This is what He said in the Bible I agree and according to the Bible these are the things that we should follow which is much more than just having faith in Christ.

How do you know this?

Here’s what you wrote.

Jesus said those who did the will of His Father will enter the kingdom of God.

Yes He did. Here’s where He said it.

Jn.6
38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The will of the Father is that we BELIEVE in His Son.

Jesus said those who fed the hungry, gave water to the thirsty, clothe the naked, etc did all those to Him so He will say to them - Now enter into the home of my Father.

Do you suppose that this could mean not only to feed them with food that will sustain their physical bodies, but to feed them with the bread of life that leads to eternal life?

Jesus said you are Peter and upon this rock I will build my church then He prayed that His church be one.

The Rock upon which Jesus built His church was Himself.

Luke 6
47Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
48He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
49But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

1Cor.10
1Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Jesus said to His apostles, who ever hears you, hears Me.

Ok

Jesus said My flesh is food indeed, My blood is drink indeed. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood will have eternal life.

Jn1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jn1
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Jn17
17Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Jn.6
63b the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

The words that Jesus speaks to us, the words that sanctify us, the words through hearing and believing that lead to eternal life are found in the bible and they are they which testify of Him. Jn.5:39

 

[look3467]

No Catholic ought to say “the church is all you need”.

That I would agree with you 100%!

What we need is to be consecrated to the Word of God, Jesus Christ.

With that I agree with again 100%.

Now, the word “consecrated” could rather be the words believing in the words of Christ".

Consecrated can be said reborn in heart and the baptism by water following as a sign of that conversion.

Blessings, AJ

 

[reteeks21]

That I would agree with you 100%!

With that I agree with again 100%.

Now, the word “consecrated” could rather be the words believing in the words of Christ".

Consecrated can be said reborn in heart and the baptism by water following as a sign of that conversion.

Blessings, AJ

I rather agree with your assessments, but where in the Bible does it say that Baptism is just a sign?

 

[look3467]

Salvation is possible for all, for God wills it.

What exactly, does God will? For some, for a few or for all?

Now, to the degree that you depart from the teaching of the Apostles is the degree that you lack the fullness of Truth and the ability to consecrate oneself to the Word Made Flesh.

To depart from that which Christ lead me to believe by the Apostles in His word I would agree as leading me away from God.

But Jesus lead me to believe via His word, via His apostles, via the instruments of use by the Holy Spirit, as He led them to write, compile and deliver the word of God in one binder, one book, called the bible as the only true source of His wonderful works in behalf of all mankind.

In that book alone does God make His word come alive in the hearts of those who the Holy Spirit calls.

If Jesus is the center of all there is, if Jesus is life for anyone looking at Him, then is Jesus not enough to have one’s heart converted?

Quote:
Is knowing that He alone is sufficient for my salvation not acceptable?
Absolutely NOT. Do not even the demons know that, and shudder?

I guess that Jesus is not capable of converting my heart without…?

Quote:
So, if I come into the knowledge of our Lord and Savior saving my soul, and know and understand that it is by His spirit that my heart is being converted, is that not sufficient enough?
Sadly, the Scriptures say it is not. :crying:

Again, what Jesus said I can not trust to believe? Do I need the church to tell me when I could?

You see, I am not against the church, I am just for the scripture being the source of information which lead me to believe by trusting in Jesus for my salvation.

Jesus said: Joh 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Am I not to believe that Jesus is the life, and that He can not keep me in the light?

Joh 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Can I not drink of this water and have everlasting life…just like He said?

Joh 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Can I not eat of this bread and live forever…just like He said?

Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Are those not words I can believe in, trust and rely on?

Bottom line…Jesus is the one the bible talks about the light shining in a dark world of knowledge, which in bringing in the light, all men are drawn unto it, and by the words given in knowledge of the true character of God demonstrated in the flesh as Jesus, we shall believe , accept and be saved for ever.

Can I not trust in those words as written: can I not trust in the message in the whole of the bible that God loves me, and that because He loves me, has He sent His son in my place to take away the penalty of eternal separation for me?

Yes, the church can lead one to Jesus by presenting the bible to us, and teaching us what there is in there that Jesus has done for us, and if we want, we can accept Jesus’ sacrifice for our sins and gain eternity via His life.

Today, I can teach some one who is in the dark about God about what the character of God is like, by showing them who Jesus is, and what Jesus came to do for them as He has done for me.

Then, if I happen to be a member of the Catholic Church, I would invite him or her to the services.
If I am a member of a Protestant church I would do the same.

The point? Is that Jesus be presented in the way that God wanted us to see Him as, as God with us in the world of darkness, ready to defend, protect and save us from all of it, via the once and for all sacrifice, of only one body: that being the body of Jesus.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

I rather agree with your assessments, but where in the Bible does it say that Baptism is just a sign?

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Paul, to the church in Rome wrote that verse addressing the fact that Baptism was as like being dead, buried and raised again, as Jesus was, as a sign of our conversion.

In other words, when You or I become believers in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus to new life, we are as like Jesus, dead to this old world, buried as dead to this world and resurrected as Jesus to new life.

Now physically, we are not, for yet we are still in the same old flesh, but spiritually? Yes, we are born again as if we were dead, buried and gone to heaven, for we are now new creatures of the new heavens and the new earth.

So as a sign of your conversion, you can request to be baptized to signify to the world that you are now a creature of the heavenly kingdom of God as promised.

Blessings, AJ

 

[gtrenewed]

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Paul, to the church in Rome wrote that verse addressing the fact that Baptism was as like being dead, buried and raised again, as Jesus was, as a sign of our conversion.

In other words, when You or I become believers in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus to new life, we are as like Jesus, dead to this old world, buried as dead to this world and resurrected as Jesus to new life.

Now physically, we are not, for yet we are still in the same old flesh, but spiritually? Yes, we are born again as if we were dead, buried and gone to heaven, for we are now new creatures of the new heavens and the new earth.

So as a sign of your conversion, you can request to be baptized to signify to the world that you are now a creature of the heavenly kingdom of God as promised.

Blessings, AJ

As a fellow believer in Jesus and the sufficiency of Scripture, I have to ask about your last statement…you can request baptism as a sign to the world…
First, Jesus commanded we be baptized, so it is not an option for us;
Second, the baptisms in Acts were not publicly held but were done right after coming to faith;
Third, there is extensive evidence that spiritual power is released during baptism,like spiritual power released on the cross;
Fourth, what verses would you cite for believing it is only for a public display?

 

[Nicea325]

Ok, Nicea GHESTER made this statement

Originally Posted by CHESTERTONRULES
The bible is clearly insufficient.

Now when you make this statement you can’t turn around and say that part of the bible is sufficient. If the bible is insufficient it is all insufficient. The bible says
Jn14
6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

So, I asked

What is insufficient about this staement?

Enter Nicea. You say

Nothing is insufficient about Jn 14:6, but it no way does it support or prove the Bible-Alone

This statement not only contradicts CHESTER it contradicts what you say in the second half of your statement. If this statement is as you say not insufficient. That would mean that is sufficient and that would mean that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life and that nobody comes to the Father, but by Him. If as you say “Nothing is insufficient about Jn 14:6” that means that Jn14:6 is sufficient to show us who Jesus is. This statement is in the bible therefore the bible is sufficient to show us who Jesus is. And therefore this statement if you go by your statement “Nothing is insufficient about Jn 14:6” supports the fact that the bible alone is sufficient to show us Jesus and eternal life.

So in other words, one verse is concrete proof the Bible-Alone is sufficient? Again,show me where any verse wwhich was written intently by the NT author as proof for the Bible-Alone? If the Sola Scriptura is sufficient,then it is only fair to say that Matthew-Alone,John-Alone,James-Alone,etc is sufficient for salvation. Sound right to you?

 

[look3467]

As a fellow believer in Jesus and the sufficiency of Scripture, I have to ask about your last statement…you can request baptism as a sign to the world…
First, Jesus commanded we be baptized, so it is not an option for us;
Second, the baptisms in Acts were not publicly held but were done right after coming to faith;
Third, there is extensive evidence that spiritual power is released during baptism,like spiritual power released on the cross;
Fourth, what verses would you cite for believing it is only for a public display?

Baptism in itself is a symbol of one being immersed into something.

The actual baptism is the immersion into that something.

Now, Jesus being totally pure and innocent of any sin, as God’s representative in human form, was immersed into this worlds sins, or the sins of the worlds, as like a sea of sins, for the express purpose of nailing all those sins to the cross, ending what was and to initiate, usher in what was to come.

So His baptism is the real baptism that washes away our sins, but for us, it is Jesus sacrifice for our sins that does the cleansing, not the immersion into water, termed baptism.

So what we do is accept Jesus’ immersion for the forgiveness of ours sins by following Him in baptism as a symbol of our conversion to Him.

It is not mandatory, but follows as an act of gratitude and as a desire to give our lives to Him.

The immersion in itself does nothing except for the individual who may feel the presence of God as His blessings.

One may make of it a public ritual, or just a practice, or choose a place and time for it.

You see, what is important is the change of heart, the conversion of the soul from a dead state to a live state which is done spiritually.

The manifestation of it follows as the believer wants to follow on in the what may be the walk of life after conversion.

And that would depend on what belief one espouses.

Note: It may sound as if I am down playing the Baptism or any traditional practice which I am not.
What I am simply trying to state is the very act of rebirth requires only that we give our hearts and life to Jesus for His cleansing.

The rest, well, it is a matter of practice.

Blessings, AJ

 

[PRmerger]

And He said all these things in the bible.

Which was given to you through the Sacred Tradition of the Catholic Church. Jesus came first. He founded the Church. *Then *came the Bible.

 

[look3467]

So in other words, one verse is concrete proof the Bible-Alone is sufficient? Again,show me where any verse wwhich was written intently by the NT author as proof for the Bible-Alone? If the Sola Scriptura is sufficient,then it is only fair to say that Matthew-Alone,John-Alone,James-Alone,etc is sufficient for salvation. Sound right to you?

Before the bible, there were apostles. So how possibly could anyone know what the new Gospel was all about?

The bible also states that the apostles spoke in other tongues, so after them, did the priests and bishops and or clergy speak in tongues?

The 12 Apostles where a jump start to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and by which the Holy Spirit took control after them to guide, inspire others to promote the gospel as well.

After the Holy Spirit caused mankind to compile the books into one book, then that book became the message in complete form for the whole of mankind to benefit from.

God is limited only to what we humans want to limit Him to, as according to our beliefs.

If we believe that God should condemn the sinner, then we are limiting God to just that.

But God said, that Jesus did not come to condemn the sinner, but that the sinner by Him might be saved.

So, you see, we can not possibly understand the length, breath and depth of God’s compassion unless we understand it through the eyes of Jesus.

So the bible is a sole source, complete in all it’s glory, just exactly how the Holy Spirit inspired it to be written. The number of books, pages and which verse got which number.

You would understand how God uses numbers in the bible as in John 3:16.

If you add those numbers together you come up with 10. That Is God’s heavenly divine number.

God is a perfect 10 in His love for us as that verse so states.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

Which was given to you through the Sacred Tradition of the Catholic Church. Jesus came first. He founded the Church. *Then *came the Bible.

No argument there!

The problem begins where ownership, lordship over the word becomes a matter of “we are the only ones to interpret the word”.

God gives understanding by revelation to those whom He sees fit promote His gospel without taking ownership of it.

Thus, it is free to whomever.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Nicea325]

No argument there!

The problem begins where ownership, lordship over the word becomes a matter of “we are the only ones to interpret the word”.

God gives understanding by revelation to those whom He sees fit promote His gospel without taking ownership of it.

Thus, it is free to whomever.

Blessings, AJ

Are you the owner of the U.S. Constitution? Are you free to interpret it as freely as you wish and whomever? Yep! However, at the end of the day, it is not you who determines the correct interpretation,but the U.S. Supreme Court/Judicial Branch.

The Bible was NOT designed and written for everyone to discern its meaning,hence one of the many reasons why there exist thousands of different sects,etc.

 

[simspt]

No argument there!

The problem begins where ownership, lordship over the word becomes a matter of “we are the only ones to interpret the word”.

God gives understanding by revelation to those whom He sees fit promote His gospel without taking ownership of it.

Thus, it is free to whomever.

Blessings, AJ

The Gnostics and Arians believed as you do that they had every right and freedom to interpret Scripture as they wanted to fit their presuppositions. History has proven that after the reformation this same freedom resulted in complete disunity of Christianity. The tripod that Irenaeus used involving tradition aka rule of faith, scripture and apostolic succession has always been from the beginning to recently the framework by which Christians have read about Jesus in the Gospels. The reformers rejected rule of faith and apostolic succession and look at the result 500 years later.

 

[onenow1]

John 21:25, But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.

This above verse by should be an indication of how untenable < Sola Scriptura> is.
Jesus, was pretty smart in building the Church on St.Peter the Rock, so things not written may be remembered by the>One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, >guided by the Holy Spirit.

Question: In Protestantism, has there been, since Martin Luther, one Doctrinal Certitude in unity of Doctrine among Christians ?

God Bless
onenow1izza:

 

[PRmerger]

Actually there were two questions Look 3467 stated.

Actually, my response was to you, Richard.

Your question, “What what would be sufficient enough?” is the exact WRONG question to ask.

Imagine a husband asking his wife, “What would be sufficient enough for our relationship? Would it be sufficient if I spent 10 minutes a day talking to you?”

That wife would rightly be a bit perturbed! *"Why is my husband asking what’s “sufficient” for our relationship. Hmmmph! *