Sola Scriptura questions

[look3467]

Quote:
The bible in it’s self has all that is needed to bring one to Christ.
False premise and historically false.

Well why then is it the best seller of all time? Just for the read? NO, because in it people have found Jesus and His salvation.

Let’s not exclude the ones that would use it for their own purposes and motives.

Even in the Catholic Church, for some of its members has evil raised it’s ugly head.
And you know what I am talking about.

The same goes for any denomination, the potential for evil is always there.

Historically, the bible as compiled had the same energy as it does today.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Richard_Kastner]

This is not what I am saying nor is it what you said:

Again, Paul was not referring to the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in Galatians, the verse of Scripture you quoted. The Gospels were not written when Paul wrote Galatians so he could not have made any reference to them. What Paul was referring to was the Gospel, which he indicates in 1 Cor. 15:1. I really cannot be anymore clear here.

No. He was unaware of the Gospels written by them which you stated he was referencing in Galatians. Again:

You said they were in the Bible. To be in the Bible they must have been written.

The Gospel = 1 Cor. 15. The Gospels = Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. There is a difference when speaking of Paul, which is who you were quoting. Paul could not have been aware of the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John which is what you said he was. Remember, you said they were in the Bible, clearly you did not think they were just “preached” or why would you say they were in the Bible?:

Are you saying they are not in the bible?

There is only one gospel message RC and that is the Gospel of Jesus Christ and Him crucified. When Paul referenced the gospel he was refering to this message, the same message found in the synoptic gospels and John whether written or preached. To say that he was refering to some other gospel is just not true. Paul when he wrote Galatians was obviously not talking about the written gospels of Mattew, Mark, Luke, and John because they weren’t written yet, but he was refering to the same gospel message and that message is in the bible.

 

[look3467]

A can of tomato juice is labeled 100% tomato.

Now we can argue whether it is 100% or less.

We can argue whether the can is the right color for the product or not.

We can argue whether the juice tastes like tomato juice or not.

We can argue the types of tomato’s used.

We can argue the size of the can.

We can do all those above, and miss out on what it really is and how useful it may be.

The bible is written by the inspiration of God, whether Catholic, Jewish or any other writer.

No one owns the rights to it except God whose spirit is in the words.

The new testament is basically written in language foreign to the Jews, yet the bible contains the Jewish version of the Old Testament.

Does that mean that portion of the bible belongs to the Jews because they were diligent enough, and stewards to protect the integrity of the Torah to the letter, while the new Testament belongs to the Catholics?

Is God divided?

God is one and not divided. It is us that are divided by the way we think.

The bible is God’s word whose spirit moved people both Jews and Gentiles to compile His words, written by mere men as inspired to do so by God.

Therefore, neither Jew nor Greek has any ownership of anyt6hing of God’s.

Ref: Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Are we not one in Jesus? Or are we divided?

Is Jesus as like the tomato Juice in the can that is the real thing verses anything else we all seem to argue about?

The bible is the sole source of truth simply because it is God breath!

Blessings, AJ

 

[Javl]

A can of tomato juice is labeled 100% tomato.

Now we can argue whether it is 100% or less.

We can argue whether the can is the right color for the product or not.

We can argue whether the juice tastes like tomato juice or not.

We can argue the types of tomato’s used.

We can argue the size of the can.

We can do all those above, and miss out on what it really is and how useful it may be.

The bible is written by the inspiration of God, whether Catholic, Jewish or any other writer.

No one owns the rights to it except God whose spirit is in the words.

The new testament is basically written in language foreign to the Jews, yet the bible contains the Jewish version of the Old Testament.

Does that mean that portion of the bible belongs to the Jews because they were diligent enough, and stewards to protect the integrity of the Torah to the letter, while the new Testament belongs to the Catholics?

Is God divided?

God is one and not divided. It is us that are divided by the way we think.

The bible is God’s word whose spirit moved people both Jews and Gentiles to compile His words, written by mere men as inspired to do so by God.

Therefore, neither Jew nor Greek has any ownership of anyt6hing of God’s.

Ref: Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Are we not one in Jesus? Or are we divided?

Is Jesus as like the tomato Juice in the can that is the real thing verses anything else we all seem to argue about?

The bible is the sole source of truth simply because it is God breath!

Blessings, AJ

AJ:

You are 100% in your assessment and I agree with you. But, keep in mind, the Jews reject the New Testament and jealously guard the Old Testament and are appaled that Christians refer to and use it. They claim it strictly as their own ( although Reform Jews, even though they reject the NT, are more tolerant towards Christians ) and Christians have no right to use it. And then there are those “Christians” who rely mostly on the OT and reject most of the NT. Maybe someday, if we all listen to the promptings of the Holy Spirit and follow His guidance, we may all believe and accept all as one community of believers. Shalom haMeshiac.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Are you saying they are not in the bible?

No.

There is only one gospel message RC and that is the Gospel of Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

Not what I have been talking about. Nor was it what you were talking about,

When Paul referenced the gospel he was refering to this message, the same message found in the synoptic gospels and John whether written or preached.

That is fine but Paul could not have referenced the Gospel of John, which you said, “was in the Bible” because it had not been written yet.

To say that he was refering to some other gospel is just not true.

Good thing I am not saying that. Like you and Paul are on different wave lengths it appears you and I are as well.

Paul when he wrote Galatians was obviously not talking about the written gospels of Mattew, Mark, Luke, and John because they weren’t written yet,

This is what I was talking about. This is exactly the opposite of what you had said. I am glad you finally understand what I was saying.

God bless

 

[Nicea325]

Well why then is it the best seller of all time? Just for the read? NO, because in it people have found Jesus and His salvation.

Let’s not exclude the ones that would use it for their own purposes and motives.

Even in the Catholic Church, for some of its members has evil raised it’s ugly head.
And you know what I am talking about.

The same goes for any denomination, the potential for evil is always there.

Historically, the bible as compiled had the same energy as it does today.

Blessings, AJ

Nonetheless, you still did not answer my qustions did you?

Tell me how many people owned a Bible in the year 70 A.D.? What about the scores of people who never owned a Bible or capable of not reading? How did they come to know and follow Christ with no Bible?

Well why then is it the best seller of all time? Just for the read? NO, because in it people have found Jesus and His salvation.

Wow! It was the best seller in the year 70? 100? 200? 1,000? So tell me,how did millions found Jesus and know about salvation, if they had no Bible?

 

[Nicea325]

Quote:
To have them reinforce their own beliefs or to have them question it? Big difference.

If you want to rely on the church for your understanding, I have no problem with that.

As oppose to what? Which church out of THOUSANDS truly has the full deposit of faith?

I for one choose to rely on what the word says and what the holy Spirit given in understanding.

And did not know Christ taught His church would not teach the Truth,but leave it up to the individual? By the way, why should anyone trust your interpretation? What certitude do you have your interpretation is correct compared to Jow Smith down the street?

Like I said before, I am grateful to the Catholic Church for being instrumental in bringing the bible together, but it is the Holy Spirit of God which teaches us.

Yes,but the Holy Spirit does not teach conflicting truths…does it? If the Holy Spirit teaches the same Truth as Jesus,then why so many different teachings and churches?

If you are satisfied with your beliefs why even respond to anything in the non-Catholic forum?

My convictions have nothing to do with responding and by the way, this is a Catholic website and all are welcomed.

Quote:
Unfortunately your approach as led to thousands of different churches and beliefs,which I do not consider handed down from Christ. They all stem from man-made churches and poor biblical exegesis. I read my Bible everyday and I can interpret whatever I want, but at the end of the day,the church has taken care of that long before you or I existed.

Then let’s limit God to only one church and the rest of the world…well…?

Limit? That is your injection into the equation. Jesus founded OINE church and why non-Catholics cannot comprehend that simple biblical truth is beyond me.

Quote:
True. But also means to obey what He said and taught,not put words into his mouth,such as Hell not existing.

Do some research on what hell is, how it is used in the bible, why Jesus had to go there and who can open the doors to heaven that no man could.Prison of departed souls (termed hell) was before Christ, but since Christ, there is no

reason any longer to hold any souls captive.

As I stated, I do not accept your interpretations and I have done plenty of research over the years. Your position on Hell souds very much like the Jehovah Witnesses and the belief all will be saved is novel and no one goes to Hell,not what early Christianity taught from the get-go.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

AJ:

You are 100% in your assessment and I agree with you. But, keep in mind, the Jews reject the New Testament and jealously guard the Old Testament and are appaled that Christians refer to and use it. They claim it strictly as their own ( although Reform Jews, even though they reject the NT, are more tolerant towards Christians ) and Christians have no right to use it. And then there are those “Christians” who rely mostly on the OT and reject most of the NT. Maybe someday, if we all listen to the promptings of the Holy Spirit and follow His guidance, we may all believe and accept all as one community of believers. Shalom haMeshiac.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

I think that you have a basic misunderstanding of what a Jew is. Look3467 quoted Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
There is also Romans 9
4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Paul makes it clear that there are two Israels.
The Israel of God Gal.6
16And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
And the Israel after the flesh 1 Cor.10
18Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?
There is the Israel after the flesh, but this is not who God gave the promise of the comming Messiah to. Rom.4
8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

Righteousness was imputed to Abraham before he was circumcised (became a Jew in the flesh) and this is because he believed God or had faith. This same principle applies today. We become Spiritual Jews not because of our ancestry, but because we accept the promise of the risen Savior (Jesus). And we become partakers in the new covenant by having the law written in our minds and in our hearts by the Spirit of God.
Heb.8
7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

The “house of Israel and with the house of Judah:” here mentioned are Spiritual Jews which have the law written in the mind and on the heart by the Spirit of God. They are Christians.

**Jn.14
15If ye love me, keep my commandments. **

 

[look3467]

Tell me how many people owned a Bible in the year 70 A.D.? What about the scores of people who never owned a Bible or capable of not reading? How did they come to know and follow Christ with no Bible?

Common sense answer: None to your first question.

If one can’t read, one does have ears to hear.
Ref:Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

And confirmed by the word of God.

Wow! It was the best seller in the year 70? 100? 200? 1,000? So tell me,how did millions found Jesus and know about salvation, if they had no Bible?

Nicea325,

Let’s cut to the chase here.

What is important to a soul? That that soul come to the knowledge of God via hearing, the word and our behavior as a testimony of God’s indwelling in us?

If that person hears and understands the promptings of the Holy Spirit tugging at the heart, then it is at that time that that person will have or not have a life changing experience.

Now, you being a Christian first, then whatever affiliation you have, and I being a Christian first with no affiliations, we both have Christ. Is that not so?

If that being the case don’t we have a responsibility to introduce Christ to anyone?

Should I or you say to a person you and I just met: I, “look here, ah, you need to become a protestant before anything of God can be revealed to you” and you would say, “look here, you need to become a Catholic before God will reveal Himself to you”.

What…do you suppose the person would think? ( confused?)

But, if we would both say, look here, Jesus loves you and will take you just where and how you are, forgive all your sins and make you into a new person.

Do you think that that would be something that person could understand?

People are hungry for some comfort, peace of mind because the world is one hell of a place and not person friendly.

The bible is a point of reference after the introduction to Christ, then if you want give your affiliation next.

You see, Jesus becomes the focal point! After all, it is all about Him…right?

You and I of the same spirit, one with Christ can achieve great works, greater works than Jesus, when He was here, because now He is at the right hand of the Father enabling us to perform, for we have the world to convert to Christ, which is in Christ’s own words: Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

So, dear friend, we have Jesus at our back, so go forth and perform as king of your own life in God’s kingdom, and as a priest in your performance of spreading the gospel.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

Quote:
If you want to rely on the church for your understanding, I have no problem with that.
As oppose to what? Which church out of THOUSANDS truly has the full deposit of faith?

If you are talking which group of believers as churches, yes, there are thousands.

But if you are talking about the believers in Christ as a church, then there is only one!

And that church has a name: Christians.

The deposit of faith, if faith in God is what one needs, is given by God to whomever, without limit or discrimination.

Ref: Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly,
according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Paul said it, not Peter.

And: Quote Barnes’ Commentary: Have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ - Faith is the distinguishing thing in the Christian religion, for it is this by which man is justified, and hence, it comes to be put for religion itself. Notes, 1Ti_3:9. The meaning here is, “do not hold such views of the religion of Christ, as to lead you to manifest partiality to others on account of their difference of rank or outward circumstances.”

1Ti 3:9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

Barnes Commentary: 1Ti 3:9 -
Holding the mystery of the faith - On the word “mystery,” see notes on 1Co_2:7. It means that which had been concealed, or hidden, but which was now revealed. The word “faith” here, is synonymous with “the gospel;” and the sense is, that he should hold firmly the great doctrines of the Christian religion which had been so long concealed from people, but which were now revealed. The reason is obvious. Though not a preacher, yet his influence and example would be great, and a man who held material error ought not to be in office.
In a pure conscience - A mere orthodox faith was not all that was necessary, for it was possible that a man might be professedly firm in the belief of the truths of revelation, and yet be corrupt at heart.

Thus, God has built His church not being made with human hands therfore no chance of becoming corrupt!

Ref:Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Blessings, AJ

 

[Nicea325]

Common sense answer: None to your first question.

If one can’t read, one does have ears to hear.
Ref:Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

And confirmed by the word of God.

Nicea325,

Let’s cut to the chase here.

What is important to a soul? That that soul come to the knowledge of God via hearing, the word and our behavior as a testimony of God’s indwelling in us?

If that person hears and understands the promptings of the Holy Spirit tugging at the heart, then it is at that time that that person will have or not have a life changing experience.

Now, you being a Christian first, then whatever affiliation you have, and I being a Christian first with no affiliations, we both have Christ. Is that not so?

If that being the case don’t we have a responsibility to introduce Christ to anyone?

Should I or you say to a person you and I just met: I, “look here, ah, you need to become a protestant before anything of God can be revealed to you” and you would say, “look here, you need to become a Catholic before God will reveal Himself to you”.

What…do you suppose the person would think? ( confused?)

But, if we would both say, look here, Jesus loves you and will take you just where and how you are, forgive all your sins and make you into a new person.

Do you think that that would be something that person could understand?

People are hungry for some comfort, peace of mind because the world is one hell of a place and not person friendly.

The bible is a point of reference after the introduction to Christ, then if you want give your affiliation next.

You see, Jesus becomes the focal point! After all, it is all about Him…right?

You and I of the same spirit, one with Christ can achieve great works, greater works than Jesus, when He was here, because now He is at the right hand of the Father enabling us to perform, for we have the world to convert to Christ, which is in Christ’s own words: Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

So, dear friend, we have Jesus at our back, so go forth and perform as king of your own life in God’s kingdom, and as a priest in your performance of spreading the gospel.

Blessings, AJ

Brother in Christ I am not out to attack you or your beliefs,so if I am coming across in such a tone,my apologies. But I agree with you 100%…it is about Jesus first. And no I am not against the Bible because I love reading scripture as much as you. Hey any favorite passages or books/letters? I love the Gospel of John and both Corthinian letters. I love Isaiah and Jeremiah.

 

[Javl]

I think that you have a basic misunderstanding of what a Jew is. Look3467 quoted Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
There is also Romans 9
4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Paul makes it clear that there are two Israels.
The Israel of God Gal.6
16And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
And the Israel after the flesh 1 Cor.10
18Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?
There is the Israel after the flesh, but this is not who God gave the promise of the comming Messiah to. Rom.4
8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

Righteousness was imputed to Abraham before he was circumcised (became a Jew in the flesh) and this is because he believed God or had faith. This same principle applies today. We become Spiritual Jews not because of our ancestry, but because we accept the promise of the risen Savior (Jesus). And we become partakers in the new covenant by having the law written in our minds and in our hearts by the Spirit of God.
Heb.8
7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

The “house of Israel and with the house of Judah:” here mentioned are Spiritual Jews which have the law written in the mind and on the heart by the Spirit of God. They are Christians.

**Jn.14
15If ye love me, keep my commandments. **

You are so far out in left field that you are way out of the ball park. You must have to keep putting your spin on the scriptures. When you finally wake up and admit that you are wrong, in error, mis-understand, mis-interpret scripture, and stop rejecting Jesus’ words, then and only then will I answer your your posts.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[look3467]

Brother in Christ I am not out to attack you or your beliefs,so if I am coming across in such a tone,my apologies. But I agree with you 100%…it is about Jesus first. And no I am not against the Bible because I love reading scripture as much as you. Hey any favorite passages or books/letters? I love the Gospel of John and both Corthinian letters. I love Isaiah and Jeremiah.

I am happy and glad to have this understanding with you.

I can’t tell you how many books I’ve read other than the bible because they are numerous.

As Far as the bible is concerned the book of Job is my launching pad to all the rest of my understanding.

The book of Revelation is next as is the Psalms, Isaiah and then all the rest.

I looked into the numbers thing and found it very interesting because God uses them repeatedly.

I know your curious about my take on the New Testament books.

Yes, there is where I found my personal Christ, my Lord, my Redeemer and my Friend.

With Jesus I have want of nothing else.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Alexander_Roman]

A can of tomato juice is labeled 100% tomato.

Now we can argue whether it is 100% or less.

We can argue whether the can is the right color for the product or not.

We can argue whether the juice tastes like tomato juice or not.

We can argue the types of tomato’s used.

We can argue the size of the can.

We can do all those above, and miss out on what it really is and how useful it may be.

The bible is written by the inspiration of God, whether Catholic, Jewish or any other writer.

No one owns the rights to it except God whose spirit is in the words.

The new testament is basically written in language foreign to the Jews, yet the bible contains the Jewish version of the Old Testament.

Does that mean that portion of the bible belongs to the Jews because they were diligent enough, and stewards to protect the integrity of the Torah to the letter, while the new Testament belongs to the Catholics?

Is God divided?

God is one and not divided. It is us that are divided by the way we think.

The bible is God’s word whose spirit moved people both Jews and Gentiles to compile His words, written by mere men as inspired to do so by God.

Therefore, neither Jew nor Greek has any ownership of anyt6hing of God’s.

Ref: Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Are we not one in Jesus? Or are we divided?

Is Jesus as like the tomato Juice in the can that is the real thing verses anything else we all seem to argue about?

The bible is the sole source of truth simply because it is God breath!

Blessings, AJ

I agree and I know this because the Catholic Church tells me so.

If the Bible was plainly understood, why do we have so many denominations of Bible-believers?

And if the Bible needs no interpretation etc., why do we need bible commentaries or even preachers of the Word? Would it not be enough to simply distribute bibles and hope to have one undivided Church?

Alex

 

[look3467]

You are so far out in left field that you are way out of the ball park. You must have to keep putting your spin on the scriptures. When you finally wake up and admit that you are wrong, in error, mis-understand, mis-interpret scripture, and stop rejecting Jesus’ words, then and only then will I answer your your posts.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

I would like to respond to your response on Javl.

When the word says, “but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called” is meaning that Isaac is the child of promise.

The word “promise” is what is Key with Issac being the vehicle by which the “promise” is introduced as pertinent to the coming of Jesus.

If it be by “promise” then it is not of the flesh as in Israel…“They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God”:

The Children of God are the children of “Promise”.

You see, there is no fleshly ownership of God’s promise, for it is from within one’s heart that the promise is born.

“There is neither Jew nor Greek” that is God making a statement, that He alone is sole ownership of the new covenant promise.

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

And truly, Richard Kastner, is not out on left field because what He was explaining is in agreement with what I said above.

You see, there are deeper truths not readily apparent the some, until some go the effort to seek after God’s secrets.

Ref: Pro 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

Are you a King and priest in His Kingdom? Then it is an honour to search out God’s little secrets!

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

I agree and I know this because the Catholic Church tells me so.

If the Bible was plainly understood, why do we have so many denominations of Bible-believers?

And if the Bible needs no interpretation etc., why do we need bible commentaries or even preachers of the Word? Would it not be enough to simply distribute bibles and hope to have one undivided Church?

Alex

Alex, you have posed a very important question of which deserves an answer.

The answer may not be of your liking, but here it is.

Like you said, “the Catholic Church tells you so”,
to many “the bible tells them so” to.

So what is the difference.

Well, to you the church brought you to the knowledge of Jesus and to the others, their churches brought them to the knowledge of Jesus to where they can say “the bible tells me so”.

Here is the Key: That one comes to Jesus via the Catholic Church or any other Church and that both have at their source “the Bible” which is truly God’s words to us.

Now, let me explain a little bit about diversity. As in many denominations.

God is limited only by our own thinking.

We are diverse because, in the diversity, the playing filed if you please, is where we learn tolerance.

Is it not the enemy that Jesus tells us to love? What more diverse can that get?

Jesus, in the thick of the battle, hate, physical abuse, abandonment by His own and by God, (When God didn’t answer Him at the cross) demonstrated His love.

And to that is what I am addressing this response.

If we are to love God, then we are to love our neighbor to.

We cannot love neighbor and not love God.

You see, we are all neighbors in the sight of God.

How we get along, is our problem not God’s.

He already showed us how…in Jesus.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Richard_Kastner]

You are so far out in left field that you are way out of the ball park. You must have to keep putting your spin on the scriptures. When you finally wake up and admit that you are wrong, in error, mis-understand, mis-interpret scripture, and stop rejecting Jesus’ words, then and only then will I answer your your posts.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

I stopped expecting an answer from you a long time ago Javl. My hope is that you or someone else will read my posts and be blessed. That’s all. You say “You are so far out in left field that you are way out of the ball park.” I would ask you to explain how you think that I am “so far out in left field that you are way out of the ball park.” But I suspect that you won’t answer because you cannot. Paul is talking about two Israels. The one ofthe flesh, who are simply ethnic Jews and have no part in God’s plan of Salvation and there are Spiritual Jews who grab hold of the promise of the Messiah and as Rom.9:4 says they are 4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; To this Israel “pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;” You may disagree with this, but that doesn’t change anything. God has His chosen people and they are from every nation tribe people and tongue and they are His Chosen because they believe in Jesus and His sacrifice.

Isaiah 56
4For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

5Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

6Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

7Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

 

[guanophore]

There are two views here, one that the Catholic Church is the Church and the other is that it is not.

The other takes it’s view that the Church of Christ is the assembly of believers, so that wherever one goes Christ is there with us.

Of course the Church is the assembly of believers, but the Church founded by Christ is also much more than just an “assembly”. It is a mystical body whose boundaries extend beyond our space and time to include all those who have “died in the Lord” and are alive forevermore.

The Church He founded also is visible, has authorative structure, and has been commissioned by Him to feed and care for the flock.

Christ dwells in the heart of the believer by faith, since such a one has been sealed by the promised holy spirit. Through that Spirit, we are made members one of another.

There is no disputing that the Catholic Church was given the responsibility by God to compile the books into one book any more than the Jews given the Torah.

Any more than the Jews were given the Torah? Not sure what you are trying to say here.

What is key here is the message found within the pages of this book that determine the state of our souls.

Are you sayng that the pages of the book determine the state of your soul?

One way to get there is through the Church, your Church and the other way is through the bible it’s self.

Get where? The Scriptures can lead a person to Christ, but when one enters Christ, he enters the Church.

We can all agree that we live in a dark world, not physically, but spiritually, thereby necessitating the illumination of the light of God via His word.

Yes, what we don’t agree upon is that Sola Scripturists seem to think that God is too weak or indifferent to preserve His Word. Catholics believe that God’s word will go forth and accomplish the purpose for which it was sent. (Isa 55:11)

He deposited His Word in the Church “once for all”, and He has kept in there, infallible, just as He promised.

Sola Scripturists seem to think that the weaknesses of men are stronger than the promises of God, and that He was unable to preserve His Word the way He left it.

Is there any disputing that a person who may get a hold on a bible and start reading can not find God in it?

People do this all the time. In order to find God, one must read with an open heart and mind.

And if one can find God in it also find the way to salvation?

The Scripture can lead one to Christ, but if that were all that was needed for salvation, He would not have had to establish a Church.

So, for those who would like to hold on to the Church is as good as not, if the heart is changed towards God, then God would have accomplished His goal.

I am not sure what this means. It seems like you are saying that what Christ founded is not necessary. Is that right?

Mean time, we are all brothers and sisters in Christ, and our different views should be tolerated to the point of unity of one spirit, and that being the spirit of God’s love.

No, look. The Church is not a “democracy”. It is a Theocracy. Unity is achieved when all individuals adhere to the Truth which God has revealed through his Son Jesus.

When Jesus died on the cross, there was not one that could have taken His place (though He sought for one) righteously, therefore all souls are included in His salvation.

His sacrifice was completely efficacious for all, but not all are included in salvation. This is the difference between redemption and salvation. The price is paid, but not all will accept this.

All souls consist of whom? The good only? The bad? How about the good and the bad?

God justifies the ungodly.

So, where do we fit in there? Are you good enough to gain entrance into heaven?

What has this got to do with Sola Scirptura? Or are you mostly here to evangelize?

What is God’s desire to save a few or to save the whole?

Blessings, AJ

Off topic, AJ

 

[guanophore]

Jesus left us two requirements and that’s it! Can you name them?

If this were true, then He would not have needed to go to the trouble of founding a church, would He?

Just because you have settled for a “reader’s digest” version of salvation does not mean it is accurate. You can chop out as much as you want, and call your little fraction “all there is”,but that does not change the facts.

After that, the responsibility for guidance belongs to the Holy Spirit.

Indeed it does, and Jesus sent His Spirit to His fledgling Church, and promised the Church that the Spirit would “lead into all Truth”, and so He has.

Jesus had a job to do, and only He alone could do it, the rest was set up for the Apostles to pick up the teaching, the training.

What is the point of that, if all people have to do is read the bible? I hope you are beginnning to see the inconsistency of your perspective.

Because the Gospel was new to many of the Jews, there had to be someone to lead them out of their old ways and into the new.

Why preach? Why not just write books?

The Gentiles really had no serious problems concerning traditions which made it easier for them to believe in faith.

This is absolutely false. It also has nothing to do with the thread topic.

 

[guanophore]

What is it that you would prefer, the spiritual significance of the message in the bible or the traditional humanistic view?

No, rather, that you would recognize that the Holy Scriptures are not to be separated from the Sacred Tradtition that produced them.

The spiritual content of the message in the bible is not the story line, but stories used to convey a spiritual message that can only be seen when one is born of God.

Didn’t I just read a post of yours above this one, saying that no one who read the bible could avoid getting the salvation message? IT seems like you are now saying the opposite…

What you are arguing here verse what I am, is that apart from the Catholic Church there is no salvation, that the scriptures alone will not lead one to salvation.

The scripture does lead people to salvation, but there is no other name under heaven by which we can be saved. All who come to Christ as Head are joined to His One Body, the Church. The reason there is no salvation outside of the church is because there is no separation between the the Bridegroom, and His Holy Bride, the Church.

I know, and I believe that the scriptures alone will lead one’s soul to the saving Grace of Jesus Christ.

Yes, and from there, to His One Body, the Church.

Now, if one prefers to be a Catholic, a Mormon or any other belief for that matter, jesus covers them all.

It is not about what “one prefers”, but what Jesus founded. The Catholic Church is not a denomination.