Sola Scriptura questions

[onenow1]

Remember, it was not until after.

Genesis 2: 9, And out of the ground the LORD God made to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food, the TREE of LIFE also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
.

Gaining knowledge of good and evil, is that something that is part of the creative process, or, is something one chose?

Beyond my pay grade.But ! "In order to emphasize how mysterious and unapproachable is Divine election, the Council of Trent calls predestination a “hidden mystery”. That predestination is indeed a sublime mystery appears not only from the fact that the depths of the eternal counsel cannot be fathomed, it is even externally visible in the inequality of the Divine choice. The unequal standard by which baptismal grace is distributed among infants and efficacious graces among adults is hidden from our view by an impenetrable veil. Could we gain a glimpse at the reasons of this inequality, we should at once hold the key to the solution of the mystery itself. Why is it that this child is baptized, but not the child of the neighbor? Why is it that Peter the Apostle rose again after his fall and persevered till his death, while Judas Iscariot, his fellow-Apostle, hanged himself and thus frustrated his salvation? Though correct, the answer that Judas went to perdition of his own free will, while Peter faithfully cooperated with the grace of conversion offered him, does not clear up the enigma. For the question recurs: Why did not God give to Judas the same efficacious, infallibly successful grace of conversion as to St. Peter, whose blasphemous denial of the Lord was a sin no less grievous than that of the traitor Judas? To all these and similar questions the only reasonable reply is the word of St. Augustine (loc. cit., 21): “Inscrutabilia sunt judicia Dei” (the judgments of God are inscrutable).

Pondering your other Questions AJ

God Bless
onenow1

[/QUOTE]

 

[guanophore]

that separation was eternal separation which equates to eternal death, of which Jesus primary concern was to kill it at the cross for us.
That is what God’s work was, is and shall forever be.

AJ, Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross did not change the nature of sin, or the consequences of sin. Those who die in their sins now have lost eternal life just as much as those who died in their sins before.

So if God saves us, then what is left for us to do?

Well, the bible states: Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Yes. The Apostles taught that if we so to the flesh, we will reap corruption,and that our sins will separate us eternally from the God who bought us with His Blood. That’s because a person who falls back into sin after coming to the saving knowledge of God spurns the blood of the One who bought Him. There remains no sacrifice for his sins.

  Being born again does not exclude us from sins consequences, for we are still responsible for them, but what we are not responsible for is what God did for us.

Well, AJ, we agree on these points also. What we seem to have a dispute about is that we have received from the Apostles that the consequences (wages) of sin is death. We are also taught that Jesus’ death does not change the nature of sin, or it’s consequence (death).

Rom 2:7-10

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Saying the sinners prayer does not change this.

  True! But the separation (death) has! We in Christ are dead to that separation, but not to any sins we commit. For we are responsible for our own sins, that those two may be forgiven upon repentance. (changing of our minds towards spiritual things verses fleshly things.)

You lost me on this one too.

 If God pays for something, it is all or nothing. The soul from eternal annihilation was redeemed at the cross for all souls.

Yes, He accomplished redemption. But we know that not all are redeemed. His salvation, though applied for all, does not benefit all, because not all choose to have themselves washed in HIs blood.

 If that soul gives itself to the world,(Satan) yes, it is not of God temporary. But at death opf the physical, guess who they are going to meet? Jesus, for Jesus (God) owns their soul purchased by the blood of Christ.

So you believe a person can pray the sinners prayer, then live in the flesh, and when they are dead, will go to heaven?

    is correct, first come to Christ, receive His salvation, and then begin to grow in it.

Blessings, AJ

That seems like a loto of unnecessary work to me.

 

[guanophore]

“once for all committed to the saints”. Paul stated: 1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

That is what should be committed to us, to expound on it to the world in darkness.

Yes, AJ, but there is much more to Jesus Christ than just His crucifixion. There was much more committed to the Church.

Catholic leaders were corrupt… Yes, God divides when something becomes corrupt, like the tower of Babel?

The tower of Babel did not have the promise that Jesus would not leave them orphaned, or that He would lead them into all Truth, like the Church He founded.

Yes, sin separates. Those corrupt leaders separated themselves from the Church. That dies not change the unity of the Church, it only separates those who sin from her.

Right doctrine is that Jesus Christ died to save your soul!

Indeed it is, but there are many other right doctrines in addition to this one.

The church physical has a head, the Pope, the Pastor, the Elder etc.
The church spiritual also has a head, and that is Jesus Christ.

So, we are headless in the physical, but with Jesus as our head in the spiritual, we are whole as a church.

I am sorry, AJ, but it seems like you are contradicting yourself here, as well as the Scriptures. How is it He will be with us till the end of the age, if we are “headless in the physical”???

So accounting then is work done in the flesh right?

I guess that depends upon whether it is material accounting, or spiritual. I certainly don’t think that Abraham’s faith was accounted to him as righteousness in the “flesh”. It seems like a spiritual action to me.

I don’t think Abraham had bars of gold fall in front of his camel.

But once the flesh dies, there is no further accounting, or work done.

We are accountable in the flesh for any work done, whether good or bad, so that is when payment is due.

This is not consistent with the scripture I posted above from Romans, is it?

The word says: Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

So you know this verse? If you do, why do you keep saying that the wages of sin don’t apply anymore?

Therefore at death sin is paid up.

Blessings, AJ

AJ, if this is talking about a physical wage, why did Adam and Eve not die immediately?

Or do you think God was just telling tall tales, when He promised them that they would die on the day they ate of the fruit?

In other words, the physical work of Christ was completed, done, finished at the cross.

The Holy Spirit in all of us is Jesus working daily as our High priest.

As for your last question, if God came to save “that” which was lost, then it is mankind as a whole that was lost, and as a whole, the lost were saved.

That includes all that you referred to: the only thing is if they only knew!

Blessings, AJ

You appear to be confusing redemption with salvation.

 

[gtrenewed]

I have given scripture references to what I have stated.

So, your insistence of my giving you scripture that meets your views, probably, I can not meet for that reason.

Actually, I was looking for the reference for what you said about baptism - you said it was for a public display of faith. I have heard this for years but never have I seen scriptural support for this position.

Would you please help me with this?

The Holy Spirit searches the heart of mankind and determines at what level He can reveal things to in order to increase their understanding but not before.

True, the Holy Spirit reveals to us the necessary Scripture for salvation and growth in discipleship. Since the Scripture is already there, I am just asking for you to point it out to me. Whether I agree with you or not is besides the point. I would like the opportunity to study and understand.

Young in the faith is an understatement. I’ve been blessed since a child with an awareness of His love for me, His guidance throughout all my life, married life and now at my old age, am still very much if not, very keen on His works in behalf of all mankind. (Old age of 64)
I am not a babe in Christ, but a mature adult in Christ!

Thanks for the testimony.

So, my friend, I could take you into depths of which you may find your self lost in understanding and would probably, most likely, condemn me to eternal hell.

Using and not repenting of divination/witchcraft is the only reason that I can think of that would cause you to be condemned. Am I missing something?

While I may not understand the depths you speak of, it is safe to reveal the basis in Scripture. Paul revealed the mystery of salvation hidden in the Jewish Scriptures (our old testament) and it was the Holy Spirit that gave the understanding to whom He chose but Paul was not condemned for taking them to that depth.

The only Scriptural reason that I can think of for not sharing these depths is that you would not want to cast pearls before swine, would you agree?

I appreciate your gentle and kind admonitions, but you really don’t know me.

This is true, and thank you for setting me straight by sharing your testimony. At least now I can begin to know you.

The souls’ spirit, the inhibitor of the body, the spirit as you say is saying the same thing. The key is the conversion whether we address it as the soul or the spirit.

I claimed the spirit and soul are two distinct parts of our being. The body is the third.
I base this on 1Thess 5:23. My understanding is that upon faith our spirit is born again and we know this in our soul but our soul must be renewed by the Word of God. While the spirit and soul are immaterial and therefore invisible to us and are closely coupled, they seem interchageable to us but God through Paul does make a distinction.

This is a good example of where we can come to different conclusions in Scripture and still have Scripture as the final authority. This is because it does not determine our salvation, so we extend grace to each other, for it will be revealed in heaven.

 

[look3467]

Who cares? If his salvation is already secure, he can be carried downstream and washed into the sea of false doctrine, and it will not matter, because his eternity is secured.>>>guanophore

Ahhh… but my friend, you still want to add something more to the works of Christ, as if Christ works are not sufficient to forgive the ultimate sin?

Or in other words, my own righteousness added to Christ’s to make it complete?

Our salvation is secure in God’s eyes, but not in ours, unless we get to see it.

Then and only then does the change in our thinking matter.

Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

The Apostles taught that the goal of salvation is not reached in this life.

Paul states: Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried (present tense)with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

“shall walk” is in the here and now, in the newness of life, as in already born again.

I will agree that the saved are with Him forever. However, they do not achieve this goal during this life.

So you don’t think life begins with Jesus? What did Jesus say: Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Life begins with Jesus the day you receive His gift to you of salvation.

So you don’t believe that God saves whoever He wants?

Friend, you are mixing apples with oranges.

God predestined that all should be saved period. The problem is that not all have knowledge of it. That is the difference.

Jesus paid the eternal price of our sins on the cross. But, if it were “finished” for us, He would not be instructing us to “take up your cross, and follow me”.

Yes, He would want you to share with the world His love for them by taking up His cross.

The Apostles taught that this happens in baptism.

Baptism of the heart.
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by look3467 forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
* That child, Jesus will grow us into mature spiritual individuals only if and when we allow Him, since the allowing is more of a desire to want, then to have to.*

That is what I thought. So, a person can be as ungodly and immoral as they want, so long as they prayed that sinners prayer, and accepted Jesus in their heart as their own personal Lord and Savior. it is a done deal - kaput!

Don’t you wish? A saved born again creature of God will sin because of the flesh, of which sins are accountable unto him.
Can be and will be forgiven if there is a change of mind. (Repentance)

I would agree, but according to your theology, there is really no reason to bother with this. I can live pretty much like I always did before I prayed that sinner’s prayer.

You see the underlined sentence? That would be only if the wrong motive was in one’s heart as like a loop hole?

But if you love the Lord, you would refrain,…willingly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guanophore
* I mean, if being immoral and living in the flesh does not affect your salvation, why not eat, drink and be merry today?*

Quote:
Originally Posted by look3467 forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
* If that is the case, then your good works would be subject to win your salvation.*

You will have to help me with this one, AJ, because I am lost. If living in the flesh affects my salvation then my good works purchase eternal life for me?

Misunderstood me. In your first quote above you said “if being immoral and living in the flesh does not affect your salvation”, then you could do all those things as you stated and still not loose your salvation because it is a work of God, the salvation part, not ours.

You tell me. If you love God and you knew Jesus gave your life for you, would you not care to live for Him, since He gave you life eternal?

Why then even think that we should eat drink and be merry as though it didn’t matter to God?

But, like Paul said: Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

How did you get from

:“sin separates humans from God” to

“if you believe sin separates you from God then you must believe you can work your way into heaven”???

I may be overwhelming you with to much information you can not understand.

Upon the creation of mankind separation begun with the attainment of knowledge.

Same as being cast out, separated and or eternal death.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

Genesis 2: 9, And out of the ground the LORD God made to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food, the TREE of LIFE also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil>>>onenow1

True, there are many mysteries to the length, depth and width of God realm that we will not know, but there are some things that He gives us understandings in.

The trees are metaphors of knowledge.

The first tree is knowledge given to the first parents because they were given the ability to think, reason and make judgments. That was a part ingredient in the creative process.

The other tree is also a metaphor of knowledge given by Jesus concerning His Father’s character concerning His love for all His creation and revealing it to us in Jesus.

First is the flesh, next is the spirit, in that order.

I have reasoned all these things for many years, searching for answers that I knew were there, but knowing that God would not give me answers until I was ready to receive them.

These things I share with you all, though, they are foreign to your way of thinking, yet in no way diminishes the glory that belongs to God.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

Actually, I was looking for the reference for what you said about baptism - you said it was for a public display of faith. I have heard this for years but never have I seen scriptural support for this position.

Would you please help me with this?>>>gtrenewed

First if you don’t have computer access to the bible, try downloading esword. It is free to who ever wants it.

I use it extensively.

John baptized in public and Jesus was baptized by John in public.

What John understood about the baptism, was of a picture of the washing away of sins, cleansing by the baptism of the son of God for the sins of the world.

The real baptism of Jesus was not of water, but of what He was about to endure on the cross: Mar 10:38 But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?

We are also baptized in Jesus, as His baptism, death on the cross is ours also.

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

We must have knowledge of Jesus to be baptized in Him.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

Quote:
The Holy Spirit searches the heart of mankind and determines at what level He can reveal things to in order to increase their understanding but not before.
True, the Holy Spirit reveals to us the necessary Scripture for salvation and growth in discipleship. Since the Scripture is already there, I am just asking for you to point it out to me. Whether I agree with you or not is besides the point. I would like the opportunity to study and understand.

Would you feed a baby a t-bone stake? Of course not, only milk.

Here is the scripture reference: Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

Here we see a level of understanding to that of a babe, not yet weaned of the milk of the word. May be a grown up adult in the flesh, yet a babe in Christ.

1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

Heb 5:14 But strong meat (T-bone steak) belongeth to them that are of full age,(spiritually mature) even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Blessings, AJ

 

[guanophore]

Why then even think that we should eat drink and be merry as though it didn’t matter to God?

Because we have a contract now. When He looks at me, He sees the payment that HIs son made on my behalf. No actions on my part can undo what He has already done.

But, like Paul said: Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Exactly! God’s grace is MORE than enough to cover all my shortcomings, so I don’t need to worry that I am always falling into sin. He loves me, and nothing can take away His love.

I may be overwhelming you with to much information you can not understand.

Upon the creation of mankind separation begun with the attainment of knowledge.

Same as being cast out, separated and or eternal death.

Blessings, AJ

So maybe the death is not physcial, but spiritual?

These things I share with you all, though, they are foreign to your way of thinking, yet in no way diminishes the glory that belongs to God.

Blessings, AJ

Yes, your posts almost always contain something that seems quite foreign. You have developed a number of ideas that represent a significant departure from the Teaching of the Apostles.

 

[guanophore]

Ahhh… but my friend, you still want to add something more to the works of Christ, as if Christ works are not sufficient to forgive the ultimate sin?

I think you misunderstood me. I am saying one does NOT have ANY reason to add any good works to the finished work of Christ. A person should just relax on that innertube and float on down the stream of life - no worries! He cannot add anything to Christ’s finished work, so there is no need to trouble himself.

Or in other words, my own righteousness added to Christ’s to make it complete?

No, please don’t try to add any “filthy rags” to Him!

Our salvation is secure in God’s eyes, but not in ours, unless we get to see it.

That;s ok. all we have to do is believe. We will get there. Trust in the promises!

Then and only then does the change in our thinking matter.

Matter for what?

Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

This all sounds nice, but it is really unnecessary.

Paul states: Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

See? There ya go! No need for all those character traits. Tryng to “put on” stuff is just adding to Jesus’ sacrifice.

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried (present tense)with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

“shall walk” is in the here and now, in the newness of life, as in already born again.

Well, maybe we “should”, but it is not really necessary. I mean, if we don’t, we will still be saved, so why trouble oneself with such duty?

So you don’t think life begins with Jesus?

But it ends with Him too. I mean, He already completed all the work on the cross, so it is all settled. We who believe and confess are saved. Done deal!

Life begins with Jesus the day you receive His gift to you of salvation.

The Aposltes taught that this occurs in baptism.

God predestined that all should be saved period. The problem is that not all have knowledge of it. That is the difference.

You make it sound as if human knowledge is somehow relevant. If He already knows who He is going to save, surely he would not depend upon any fallible human beings to get mixed up in it.

Yes, He would want you to share with the world His love for them by taking up His cross.

He may want that, but it really does not have to happen. I mean, if I am saved but I don’t go out preaching and evangelizing, I am still saved.

Baptism of the heart.

I was listening to Christian radio today when they said that to baptize means to “plunge into the water”. I wonder how baptism got separated from the water?

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

The Apostles taught that the circumcision of the heart is done by the HS in baptism.
They also called it the “bath of regeneration”.

Don’t you wish? A saved born again creature of God will sin because of the flesh, of which sins are accountable unto him.
Can be and will be forgiven if there is a change of mind. (Repentance)

But I really don’t need to repent of my sins, either, since that is also a filthy rag work, isn’t it? None of my works affect my salvation, so there is really no need to be concerned about living in the flesh. My spirit is saved.

But if you love the Lord, you would refrain,…willingly.

But I don’t really have to love Him, either. I mean, that is a “work” too, and so it does not impact my salvation either.

Misunderstood me. In your first quote above you said “if being immoral and living in the flesh does not affect your salvation”, then you could do all those things as you stated and still not loose your salvation because it is a work of God, the salvation part, not ours.

You tell me. If you love God and you knew Jesus gave your life for you, would you not care to live for Him, since He gave you life eternal?

Sure, I would like to ,but it is really too hard for me, and since it is a work anyway, and I know I am already saved, I am just going to rest in my faith. It is not by works of righteousness that we have done that we are saved.

 

[look3467]

The only Scriptural reason that I can think of for not sharing these depths is that you would not want to cast pearls before swine, would you agree?

No sir! Casting pearls before swine are those who would have the least bit interest in Godly things.

This fourm, though may have some interesting characters of differing views, are definitely not in the category of swine, but rather those interested in the deeper things of God.

I claimed the spirit and soul are two distinct parts of our being. The body is the third.

The breath of God is Adam.
The body is Eve.
The living soul is you, (Character)of which in Jesus, you are a living spirited soul.

The body dies, but your soul’s spirit lives on.

Blessings, AJ

 

[benedictus2]

The breath of God is Adam.
The body is Eve.
The living soul is you, (Character)of which in Jesus, you are a living spirited soul.

The body dies, but your soul’s spirit lives on.

Blessings, AJ

I have not heard anything weirder than this as a Christian theology.

A find of example of what happens when one is separated from the Church that Christ built.

 

[PRmerger]

I have not heard anything weirder than this as a Christian theology.

A find of example of what happens when one is separated from the Church that Christ built.

Yes. I agree that “the breath of God is Adam, the body is Eve” is one of the weirder doctrines I’ve ever heard professed on the CAFs.

I grew up Catholic, in a predominately Catholic city and went to Catholic schools through college/grad school, so I suppose I had a rather insular upbringing in the faith. After coming to this CAF I have been exposed to a myriad of really, really peculiar beliefs–which all can be “supported” by Scripture…(Scripture that’s been divorced from the Tradition which produced it.)

 

[guanophore]

I have not heard anything weirder than this as a Christian theology.

A find of example of what happens when one is separated from the Church that Christ built.

I was thinking the same thing, until I realized that his ideas are almost identical to those of the second century gnostics, who also interpreted the scriptures apart from the Apostolic faith. With that realization, and the knowledge that I may never be able to enter into such “depths”, I am prepared to call it “done” in this case.

 

[look3467]

Because we have a contract now. When He looks at me, He sees the payment that HIs son made on my behalf. No actions on my part can undo what He has already done.>>>guanophore

!00% correct!

Quote:
Originally Posted by look3467 forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
* I may be overwhelming you with to much information you can not understand.

Upon the creation of mankind separation begun with the attainment of knowledge.

Same as being cast out, separated and or eternal death.

Blessings, AJ*

So maybe the death is not physcial, but spiritual?

Death was both physical and spiritual, hence the need for payment.
Payment is due on both, the physical and the spiritual of which the latter was paid by Christ.

For the physical: Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (Payment)

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; (The physical) but (After the payment) the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

AJ, Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross did not change the nature of sin, or the consequences of sin. Those who die in their sins now have lost eternal life just as much as those who died in their sins before.>>>guanophore

I am glad you brought this up.The sacrifice on the cross changed the power of sin over us only because Jesus overcame it for us.

So in Him we also can overcome the same.

Here is where I want to give some new insight, perhaps it’ll be of interest, but if not, well that’s ok to.

Quote “Those who die in their sins now have lost eternal life”,

We are all lost and in need of saving, so to say “die in your sins now” is the same as already being lost.

Quote “just as much as those who died in their sins before” were also already lost and in need of saving.

You see, the world was lost from the beginning, all of humanity was lost due to the flesh, for the separation brought death, spiritual and physical death.

So, Jesus, the tree of life was with held for the express purpose that the flesh may have the opportunity to experience individuality as gods, and at a later date, God would introduce the tree of life to the world as Jesus.

Now, for all those souls who lived and died before Jesus went to a holding place.

That holding place held the departed prisoners captive, for until Jesus, there was no redemption for them.

Jesus went to visit them to liberate them as well, to where there no longer exists a holding place, for now it is a straight shot to heaven.

If you like I can give you scripture references.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

Yes. The Apostles taught that if we so to the flesh, we will reap corruption,and that our sins will separate us eternally from the God who bought us with His Blood. That’s because a person who falls back into sin after coming to the saving knowledge of God spurns the blood of the One who bought Him. There remains no sacrifice for his sins.>>>guanophore

OK, listen to what you said “The Apostles taught that if we so to the flesh, we will reap corruption”, that is correct in that we are responsible for our own sins.

“that our sins will separate us eternally from the God”, we were already dead spiritually from the get go, so sining would have made no difference.

Now here is where we need to think on, “God who bought us with His Blood”.

By saying this, and which is a truth, the action is past tense in the word “bought” and a workings of God alone in the words “His blood”.

So, what have we here, is two things, one, we’re lost and two, God works a work to save that which was lost.

In answer to the last part od your statement “falls back into sin after coming to the saving knowledge of God spurns the blood of the One who bought Him. There remains no sacrifice for his sins”, is saying that Jesus is the only way.

Without Jesus there remains no sacrifice for sins regardless if one is a Jew or Greek.

God can not say He gave His only Son to save the world, and then say only some, would be contradicting Himself.

Either He came to save all or none.

Now, in that last sentence of mine above there is a whole lot of truth in it.

“Save all” means all.

“Or none” is Jesus, who took all our sins unto Himself and nailed them to the cross.

So, it is all (us) or None (Jesus who paid the price.

Can you see that?

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

Rom 2:7-10

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile guanophore

That is true in that both to the Jew and to the Greek/Gentile the same consequence fall, as both are responsible for their own behavior, after Jesus had already purchased their soul.

Either we live for Him and be blessed, or we live for ourselves and be cursed, either way, our souls are bought and paid for by His blood.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

I think you misunderstood me. I am saying one does NOT have ANY reason to add any good works to the finished work of Christ. A person should just relax on that innertube and float on down the stream of life - no worries! He cannot add anything to Christ’s finished work, so there is no need to trouble himself.>>>guanophore

Relax? You love God and you would relax? I’d say that would be selfish thinking , wouldn’t you agree?

No, knowing that your soul is secure for all eternity should want you to jump for joy, get filled with God’s love and then live for Him the rest of your life, instead of …for self.

No, please don’t try to add any “filthy rags” to Him!

OK, your filthy rags. Now, do you want Jesus to take them away? All you have to do is give them to Him!

I love Jesus because He loved me, died for me to give me life. And for that I owe my life to Him as my God, yet, He is the one who took the fall, not Adam and Eve, if you can comprehend that.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

Yes. I agree that “the breath of God is Adam, the body is Eve” is one of the weirder doctrines I’ve ever heard professed on the CAFs.

I grew up Catholic, in a predominately Catholic city and went to Catholic schools through college/grad school, so I suppose I had a rather insular upbringing in the faith. After coming to this CAF I have been exposed to a myriad of really, really peculiar beliefs–which all can be “supported” by Scripture…(Scripture that’s been divorced from the Tradition which produced it.)

If you stop and reason for a minute you can figure it out.

Eve represents the weaker vessel or the flesh.

You know that the flesh is weak right?

Adam is the spirit breath of God breath into the vessel of clay (The weaker vessel) and from it was the first marriage between heaven and earth creating a living soul.

That living soul is called Adam.

Now, ref: Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, (Clay vessel = Eve)and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; (conscience and spirit = Adam) and man became a living soul. (Marriage of the two.

Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called** their** name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Of course, this information is not something that a child should first learn about, so the story in the bible about Adam and Eve is simple enough for a child to understand.

But afterwords :1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

Are we there yet?

Blessings,AJ