Sola Scriptura questions

[jericho777]

You don’t believe Paul was infallible when he wrote Ephesians? And do you believe there’s an error somewhere in the Gospel of Mark?

And, do you believe that there’s an error somewhere in the canon of Scripture? Perhaps it’s your determination that Revelation ought not be in the Bible and, perhaps, the Gospel of Judas should?

No, only God is infallible.

Only 66 books in the canon. Even the Jews who authored those books have serious questions about their inspiration.

 

[jericho777]

What “Holy Spirit” is this, jericho? The one that leads all to One Truth?

*“But when he, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will teach you all the truth.”
John 16:13

Most non-Catholic sects declare that the Holy Spirit is “teaching” them the truth. However, there can be only one truth. Since the advent of Sola Scriptura and individual interpretation of Scripture, how can the Holy Spirit be in each of the thousands of sects, teaching all of them opposing viewpoints? It is to be noted that all of the following denominations teach from the same Bible, so why the differences in teaching?

1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans the Eucharist is the true presence of Christ, and then tell the Baptists it is only a symbol?
2. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Methodists it is alright to have female ministers, and then tell the Baptists it is unbiblical?
3. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Seventh-Day Adventists that Saturday is the day of worship, and then tell the Presbyterians the day of worship is Sunday and not Saturday?
4. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans that the Blessed Virgin Mary was and remains always virgin, and then tell the Baptists she had other children?
5. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Baptists, “once saved always saved”, and then tell the Church of Christ that Sola Fides is unscriptural?
6. How can the Holy Spirit tell Episcopalians to baptize infants and then tell Pentecostals infant baptism is invalid?
7. How can the Holy Spirit tell Mormons that the Holy Trinity is three separate persons, and then tell Methodists the Trinity is three persons in one GOD?
   *Source: home.inreach.com/bstanley/reform.htm

How can the cc make eating meat on every friday a sin then change their mind to only during lent ?

 

[PRmerger]

No, only God is infallible.

Only 66 books in the canon. Even the Jews who authored those books have serious questions about their inspiration.

Ok, Jericho.

What error do you think is in the book of Ephesians?

 

[PRmerger]

How can the cc make eating meat on every friday a sin then change their mind to only during lent ?

You misunderstand, jericho. It wasn’t eating meat that was a sin. It was disobeying the disciplinary teaching.

 

[PRmerger]

You misunderstand, jericho. It wasn’t eating meat that was a sin. It was disobeying the disciplinary teaching.

Addendum:

Just like as a parent I can allow my oldest daughter to drive at 16, but my 2nd DD when she turns 16 will not be allowed. I’m not changing my ruling. The ruling is, and always was, “You may drive when we decide you are ready to drive.”

 

[jericho777]

Ok, Jericho.

What error do you think is in the book of Ephesians?

I did not know there was controversy over that book.

 

[jericho777]

You misunderstand, jericho. It wasn’t eating meat that was a sin. It was disobeying the disciplinary teaching.

God has given us the freedom to eat meat everyday we please. There is no authority to do otherwise. It is a man made rule. It is not binding on the conciences of men.

But my point was they keep changing the rules about it.

 

[jericho777]

Addendum:

Just like as a parent I can allow my oldest daughter to drive at 16, but my 2nd DD when she turns 16 will not be allowed. I’m not changing my ruling. The ruling is, and always was, “You may drive when we decide you are ready to drive.”

That is your perogative as a parent. I hope it would not be in an arbitrary manner.

To make something sin that is a freedom granted by God is a horrible misuse of a position of power. There are plenty of real sins people need to avoid without adding something foolish.

 

[PRmerger]

I did not know there was controversy over that book.

Well, the controversy was settled by the Catholic Church centuries ago regarding whether it was truly inspired or not.

It was an infallibly determined decision made by Catholic bishops, guided by the Holy Spirit.

So, unless you’re uncertain that Ephesians is theopneustos, then you have tacitly understood that there is an example of infallibility that you submit to.

And, if you don’t believe that there are any errors in Ephesians (and I’m certain you don’t), then you have understood that the inspired author was also infallible.

2 examples of infallibility just from my bringing up Ephesians.

 

[PRmerger]

God has given us the freedom to eat meat everyday we please. There is no authority to do otherwise. It is a man made rule. It is not binding on the conciences of men.

Yes, God has given us many freedoms.

But my point was they keep changing the rules about it.

No one** has ever stated that the Catholic Church cannot change its disciplinary rulings.

Were you under the impression that this was not the case?

(N.B.** “No one” who is knowledgeable about Catholicism)

 

[PRmerger]

That is your perogative as a parent. I hope it would not be in an arbitrary manner.

And I hope you’re not suggesting that the Catholic Church’s disciplines are arbitrary?

To make something sin that is a freedom granted by God is a horrible misuse of a position of power. There are plenty of real sins people need to avoid without adding something foolish.

Again, eating meat is not sinful. It is the disobeying of one’s parents that is sinful.

Incidentally, how do you know what are sins and what are not? Does the Bible tell you whether stem cell research is a sin?

 

[onenow1]

In 2Tim 3:16 Paul doesn’t say Timothy used “apostolic tradition” to find the meaning of scripture. In fact he just says Timothy’s knowledge only came from the scripture. No outside teaching source.

Hi,Jericho It seems you ignore a lot of scripture such as this: 2 Timothy 2:1 You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus,
2 and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

and this : 1 Timothy 3: 14 I hope to come to you soon, but I am writing these instructions to you so that, 15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.

and these: 1Cor 11:2, Hold fast to tradition handed on to you. 2Thess 2: 15, hold fast to traditions whether oral or letter. 2Thess 3:6, shun those acting not according to tradition.

God Bless
onenow1

 

[jericho777]

Well, the controversy was settled by the Catholic Church centuries ago regarding whether it was truly inspired or not.

It was an infallibly determined decision made by Catholic bishops, guided by the Holy Spirit.

So, unless you’re uncertain that Ephesians is theopneustos, then you have tacitly understood that there is an example of infallibility that you submit to.

And, if you don’t believe that there are any errors in Ephesians (and I’m certain you don’t), then you have understood that the inspired author was also infallible.

2 examples of infallibility just from my bringing up Ephesians.

Only God is infallible. The heart of the king is in the hand of the Lord. God directs good and bad men to do His will they cannot resist His will no matter who they are period. You are confusing both issues Gods’ sovereign will and the actions of men. The Holy Spirit inspired men to write His word. Were they infallible at any time-NO! They were doing what God sovereignly willed them to do.

God ordained what His word would be before the beginning of time. All scripture is God breathed.

 

[jericho777]

Yes, God has given us many freedoms.

No one** has ever stated that the Catholic Church cannot change its disciplinary rulings.

Were you under the impression that this was not the case?

(N.B.** “No one” who is knowledgeable about Catholicism)

When I was Catholic I was unaware of these things I was clueless to what the bible contained.

When you are making rules condemning men to hell for not following them they should be unchangeable to the whims of men, if they really were from God

 

[jericho777]

And I hope you’re not suggesting that the Catholic Church’s disciplines are arbitrary?

Again, eating meat is not sinful. It is the disobeying of one’s parents that is sinful.

Incidentally, how do you know what are sins and what are not? Does the Bible tell you whether stem cell research is a sin?

The CC’s disciplines are not biblical.

Again you cannot revoke the liberty God has given to men and call it sin. Remember the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

David said “I was conceived in sin” and “For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb.” So according to the bible our personhood is from conception forward. Anything that would destroy that would be murder in the first degree. That‘s what the bible says you may have a different opinion on that.

 

[jericho777]

Hi,Jericho It seems you ignore a lot of scripture such as this: 2 Timothy 2:1 You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus,
2 and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

and this : 1 Timothy 3: 14 I hope to come to you soon, but I am writing these instructions to you so that, 15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.

and these: 1Cor 11:2, Hold fast to tradition handed on to you. 2Thess 2: 15, hold fast to traditions whether oral or letter. 2Thess 3:6, shun those acting not according to tradition.

God Bless
onenow1

Hi onenow1. Your premise is that the “tradition” spoken of here is some sort of apostolic tradition. Their own personal teaching a tradition that only the cc has been able to reveal over 2000 years and is ever expanding. I would respond by saying there is no allusion the traditions spoken of are apostolic in origin or were never written down. I believe scripture contains all that is needed for faith and salvation in Jesus Christ according to 2 Tim 3:15 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Also God frowns on manmade tradition no matter how well intended. Mark 7:5-8 So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, “Why don’t your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with ‘unclean’ hands?”
6He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:
“‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
7They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.
8You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.”

 

[onenow1]

I believe scripture contains all that is needed for faith and salvation in Jesus Christ according to 2 Tim 3:15 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.”

Jricho, 2 Timothy, I would suggest is proving to much, if it were as simple as that there would be no need for the NT. further Jesus Himself wrote absolutely nothing nor commanded the Apostles, or disciples, to do so.

John 21: 25 not all is recorded in scripture,

=onenow1, I would also suggest the above includes the OT. We can be certain St.John, was very familiar with both testaments; And that reminds me the NT isTradition, written apprx. 20 to 40 yrs after Jesus as is the OT written after the fact.

Mark 16: 15, And he said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation.

Quote =onenow1 Jesus was pretty smart, that is why he never wrote anything, and erased what He did write in the sand. Proof of the putting is this very web site, and others that arguedebate} about religious practices. SS Just does not work. Things difficut to understand were covered under Policy #"s Matt. 16. & Lule 10: 16.

God Bless
onenow1

 

[PRmerger]

Were they infallible at any time-NO! They were doing what God sovereignly willed them to do.

If these men did not write infallibly, please direct us to the verses in Scripture you consider to be in error theologically. Chapter and verse, please!

 

[PRmerger]

Only God is infallible.

Then please tell us where these fallible men (i.e.St. Peter, St. Paul,. St. Matthew, St. Mark, St. Luke, Moses) wrote errors in the Word of God.

The heart of the king is in the hand of the Lord.

Amen.

God directs good and bad men to do His will they cannot resist His will no matter who they are period.

Clearly, many resist His Will.

However, yes, in the end God’s will is sovereign.

You are confusing both issues Gods’ sovereign will and the actions of men. The Holy Spirit inspired men to write His word.

Indeed. That’s a great definition of infallibility. You are very Catholic to write the above!

God ordained what His word would be before the beginning of time

Amen!

All scripture is God breathed.

Amen!

However, the only reason you know what is “Scripture” is because the Catholic Church told you so.

You only know Ephesians is theopneustos because the CC discerned it was.

You know that the Gospel of Thomas is not inspired because the CC told you so.

 

[Nicea325]

Originally Posted by jericho777
I believe scripture contains all that is needed for faith and salvation in Jesus Christ according to 2 Tim 3:15 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.”

Where does Jesus or the Apostles teach all that is needed for faith and salvation is contained in scripture? Strange how Jesus never wrote anything and yet according to you scripture contains everything needed for faith and salvation?