Sola Scriptura -- what is the actual authority?

[Wannano]

Sorry, I thought I had made it obvious. Of course Lord is God. Yes of course Mary delivered a divine being. I am not denying that Mary is the Mother of God as pertains to the reality that Jesus is God, Lord, Master and that she brought Him into this world.

What more do I have to say?

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Nothing more. Based on your statement you also believe she is mother of God.

Thanks.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Since the topic is Sola scriptura…just want to point out that i knew Mary was Mother of God by practicing Sola Scriptura. I wasn’t Catholic and didn’t need a church to tell me this. It seems pretty clear that Jesus is God and Mary is his mother. And even Elizabeth says who am I that the mother of my Lord would come to me.?

Kudos to Sola Scriptura on this one. Unfortunately not everything is that clear and you need the church, in particular the CCC for more guidance.

 

[Tommy999]

While Mary is deserving of the ‘Mother of God’ moniker because she is Theotokos, I personally prefer to refer to her as the mother of our Lord because when I hear Catholics constantly call her “Mother of God”, it subconsciously conjures up images in my mind of Mary being raised to almost goddess-like status almost as if she were the honorary 4th member of the Holy Trinity or something instead of her title being created at the Council of Ephesus to address an ancient heresy.

For the record, I realize Catholic doctrine doesn’t teach she is a goddess, but neither should Catholics object to those of us Trinitarians who prefer to call her “The Virgin Mary’ or the “Mother of Our Lord”.

In the end, I think Catholics have a lot more invested in the term ‘Mother of God’ than Protestants, as evidenced by the ‘Hail Mary’ prayer and Rosary, along with the rest of the associated Marian doctrines. That is why I believe they defend the term so strongly. Just my two cents.

 

[Wannano]

Nothing more. Based on your statement you also believe she is mother of God.

Thanks.

What I was initially asking was “why” it is so necessary to insist on calling Mary the Mother of God when she clearly is the mother of Jesus only and not the mother of the Father or Holy Spirit. It causes confusion. It sorta is like insisting a cake is an egg because it has an egg in it.

I am done with this at any rate.

 

[EndTimes]

In my own faith journey, I struggled with this as Sola Scriptura was my personal safety net that I subsequently gave up.

Ultimately, I came to the conclusion that the bible wasn’t my authority – It was my own personal and fallible interpretation of the bible that was my authority, since books don’t interpret themselves. I wanted to believe that this was a legit practice as I interpreted John 16:13 as the key scripture passage permitting this:

However when He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth; for He shall not speak from Himself, but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak; and He will show you things to come

That said, one must never ever minimize the Importance of the Sacred and Holy Scriptures - including and IMO Especially the GOSPEL / NT - such as is evidenced in Catholic Teachings and in the Liturgy of the WORD (Jesus) at Mass

St. Jerome’s comment is part of the Mass Celebration of him, and is perfectly on the mark.

"IGNORANCE OF SCRIPTURES IS IGNORANCE OF CHRIST"

Jump Into The Gospel

• so as to become very familiar with Jesus in Written Form aka the WORD of GOD.

_

 

[mcq72]

Since the topic is Sola scriptura…just want to point out that i knew Mary was Mother of God by practicing Sola Scriptura. I wasn’t Catholic and didn’t need a church to tell me this

Thank you. I believe you make the point, as others do also, that SS does not throw away tradition and councils, such as those that coined the term.

 

[De_Maria]

While Mary is deserving of the ‘Mother of God’ moniker because she is Theotokos, I personally prefer to refer to her as the mother of our Lord because when I hear Catholics constantly call her “Mother of God”, it subconsciously conjures up images in my mind of Mary being raised to almost goddess-like status almost as if she were the honorary 4th member of the Holy Trinity or something instead of her title being created at the Council of Ephesus to address an ancient heresy.

If anyone raised and exalted her status, it is the Being who selected her to be the mother of His Son.

For the record, I realize Catholic doctrine doesn’t teach she is a goddess, but neither should Catholics object to those of us Trinitarians who prefer to call her “The Virgin Mary’ or the “Mother of Our Lord”.

We don’t. We object to Protestants who proselytize Catholics and try to convince us that she is not the Mother of God. You may not be one of them, but the majority are.

In the end, I think Catholics have a lot more invested in the term ‘Mother of God’ than Protestants, as evidenced by the ‘Hail Mary’ prayer and Rosary, along with the rest of the associated Marian doctrines. That is why I believe they defend the term so strongly. Just my two cents.

That’s because we have more vested in the Scriptures. It is the Catholic Church which wrote these words:

Luke 1:26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary.28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Let’s break this down:

ANGEL GABRIEL

1. an angel is a messenger of God. That is what the word, angel, means.
2. this angel, Gabriel, is one of the four angels that stands before the throne of God.

WAS SENT FROM GOD

1. God sent this angel to Mary.
2. Since this angel is a messenger of God’s, God sent Him to deliver a message.
3. Therefore, the angel was not speaking on his own, but was communicating God’s message to Mary.
4. If we skip down to verse 28, we see that this was a message of praise (i.e. blessed art thou).
5. Therefore God praised Mary through His Angel.

Do you know of any man whose praise is worth more than God’s? In other words, what do you value more highly, the praise of man or the praise of God?

And if God is praising Mary in this way, why won’t you?

 

[De_Maria]

What I was initially asking was “why” it is so necessary to insist on calling Mary the Mother of God when she clearly is the mother of Jesus only and not the mother of the Father or Holy Spirit. It causes confusion. It sorta is like insisting a cake is an egg because it has an egg in it.

It proves that Jesus is Divine and human. There were some and still are, who want to say that Jesus is a man and not God. Some, who were insinuating that Jesus was a spirit and not man. Since Mary is the Mother of God, this is refuted.

 

[mcq72]

The Truth is absolute. If it (mother of God term) was good and true then, it remains good and true now.

The underlying truth behind it is constant. The wisdom or need to today to use an old term to combat a certain Christological error not being argued amongst ourselves is the question.

 

[mcq72]

It proves that Jesus is Divine and human.

Well not proof but a descriptive term, like the “trinity” is, which can be said in other ways.

 

[De_Maria]

De_Maria:

The Truth is absolute. If it (mother of God term) was good and true then, it remains good and true now.

The underlying truth behind it is constant. The wisdom or need to today to use an old term to combat a certain Christological error not being argued amongst ourselves is the question.

Just because you are not arguing it any longer, doesn’t mean that many others are not also. Many continue to deny that truth, today.

 

[De_Maria]

De_Maria:

It proves that Jesus is Divine and human.

Well not proof but a descriptive term, like the “trinity” is, which can be said in other ways.

What? I don’t understand.

 

[JonNC]

Jon, why would you hope not? My understanding of how the CC has “dealt” with this dark part of the Church’s history is to say “the Church was pure, it was only evil people in the Church that did those things.” Regardless of what Church/denomination is being studied/taught it is a lie to not acknowledge truth within history.

It isn’t the time and place. Catechetical class is intended to teach the faith.
In a Church history class, absolutely.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

From my point of view - Mary mother of God is more about Jesus than it is Mary. We dont want to fall into ancient heresies and start ripping Jesus apart. He is a divine person.

That’s why some of the traditional protestant Churches have statues or paintings of our Lady with the Savior as infant child. A visual of who Jesus is was very necessary throughout the ages when people were illiterate and benefited from such icons. So the tradition carried on.

 

[mcq72]

Matthew…i think he was joking ( about fighting)…i take it they are old sparring partners in quite a respectful manner.

 

[mcq72]

What? I don’t understand.

I meant the term " mother of God", like the term “trinity” is a descriptive term, to describe or to aid a Cristological understanding…not sure it can “prove” anything. And both can be described in other terms, such as “mother of our Lord” or the “Father, Son, and Holy Ghost”, respectively.

 

[Michael16]

What are you talking about, mcq?

 

[mcq72]

Which post?

 

[De_Maria]

De_Maria:

What? I don’t understand.

I meant the term " mother of God", like the term “trinity” is a descriptive term, to describe or to aid a Cristological understanding…not sure it can “prove” anything. And both can be described in other terms, such as “mother of our Lord” or the “Father, Son, and Holy Ghost”, respectively.

Well, you can say the same about everything. Even the entire Catechism can’t prove anything. Nor can the entire Bible.

But, the term Mother of God is not just descriptive, it is also instructive, for those who still want to challenge the fact that Jesus is Man and God.