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lofktis14kr
Guest
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
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jean8
Guest
matt,
Another point of view by Joe Mizzi.
“Sola Scriptura is not a denial of the church’s authority to teach God’s revelation. The Church is ‘the pillar and foundation of the truth’ (I Timothy 3:15) because it upholds and teaches the Word of God. However the church cannot ‘add’ doctrines of human origin or contradict the God-breathed Scriptures. The church’s authority is subordinate to the authority of the Bible. Moreover, the church is commissioned to preach the Word orally, and to transmit the Christian Gospel from one generation to the next. The most enthusiastic proponents of sola Scriptura do so eagerly and do their best to make sure that their preaching is consistent with the written Word of God.”
See 2 Tim.3:16 Rev.22:18-19
God bless,
jean8
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benedictus2
Guest
Exactly! That is why we Catholics believe in
Sola Verbum Dei rather than Sola Scriptura. These two are not the same.
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Mailman
Guest
Hi guys,
Since the Mod doesn’t want us to be off topic, I’ve opened a new thread called “Are there Traditions that are contrary to Scripture?” so we can continue our discussion on the Sunday-Sabbath question. If you want to join in please do. I’d appreciate it.
Since the Mod doesn’t want us to be off topic, I’ve opened a new thread called “Are there Traditions that are contrary to Scripture?” so we can continue our discussion on the Sunday-Sabbath question. If you want to join in please do. I’d appreciate it.
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benedictus2
Guest
How do you explain the fact that it was the Catholic Church who came up with the Bible?
The thing is, based on the Gospels, Jesus established a Church. This is very clear. But He never said, write this down, this is what I want to transmit to the generations to come. He established a Church within whose bosom the Gospels will be written.
Christ did not go around, scribe in tow, noting down everything He says and does. If this were the case we would only have one Gospel instead of 4.
In the order of revelation: Jesus revealed Himself first to His Church (His Bride) so that this same Church will pass on this Gospel, so that even those who have not seen Him, will believe.
Having said that though, precisely because the Gospels and Epistles were written within the Church, the Church therefore cannot teach anything contrary to Scripture for doing so would mean to teach against itself.
po18guy
Well-known member
It does not explain the beginning of human life. It does not say “at conception” Where do you go for that answer?
OK, how about cloning? At some point, the bible is stuck in a 2,000-5,000 year time warp as far as scientific knowledge goes.
God’s truth is eternal, and the Holy Spirit guides as technology advances. Unless you do not believe in the Holy Spirit. Unless you believe that the Holy Spirit is stuck between the pages of the book and has no relevance today. Unless you believe that it is not the Holy Spirit’s bailiwick to teach truth, since it was “ALL” written down.
po18guy
Well-known member
And, not one word was written. Jesus is the living Word, who is greater than any scripture, right? When Christ returns, I will roll up my bibles and smoke them in celebration. Or, is Christ inferior to the bible??? Do we need both Christ and the bible?
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lofktis14kr
Guest
Psa 139:13 For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother’s womb.
The Word taken as a whole is sufficient to lead the church in all matters of faith and practice.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
Rev 19:15 From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations…
po18guy
Well-known member
The “Word”, is only Christ Jesus in the flesh. A few things that He said are written in the incomplete bible. You prefer an incomplete faith?
You have not answered: Is Christ greater than the bible, or is the bible greater than Christ?
From all of this, I must only conclude that, somehow, you worship the bible more than Christ. You do not need a bible to be Christian, but you surely need Christ to be.
If the bible is all for all times, why has it lead to the irreparable shattering of Christ’s precious Body? I await…
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lofktis14kr
Guest
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runandsew
Guest
The only reason anyone can say that the scriptures are totally sufficient for the christian, is that the main doctrines have already been declared in previous church councils.
What I mean by that, is the only reason that we are sure that scripture is speaking of the Trinity is because the church infallibly declared that some 1,500 years ago.
Christians are relying of Tradition on their interpretation of scripture whether they want to admit it or not.
So when a Christian says that the Holy Scripture the final authority in matters of faith and practice, he has to rely on the church to be assured that his interpretation of the Holy Scripture is correct.
Yes, everything a Christian needs is found in scripture, but to interpret this information correctly and not be led astray from an errant understanding, one needs an infallible church.
To deny this is to be ignorant of Christian history especially when it comes to heresy and how the church countered heresy.
One wouldn’t know the correct understanding of the Trinity and how the relationships between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit works except that the Church gave an infallible decision on it when it was guided by the Holy Spirit to that decision.
What I mean by that, is the only reason that we are sure that scripture is speaking of the Trinity is because the church infallibly declared that some 1,500 years ago.
Christians are relying of Tradition on their interpretation of scripture whether they want to admit it or not.
So when a Christian says that the Holy Scripture the final authority in matters of faith and practice, he has to rely on the church to be assured that his interpretation of the Holy Scripture is correct.
Yes, everything a Christian needs is found in scripture, but to interpret this information correctly and not be led astray from an errant understanding, one needs an infallible church.
To deny this is to be ignorant of Christian history especially when it comes to heresy and how the church countered heresy.
One wouldn’t know the correct understanding of the Trinity and how the relationships between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit works except that the Church gave an infallible decision on it when it was guided by the Holy Spirit to that decision.
po18guy
Well-known member
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PatV
Guest
What if that was all there was, Scripture, or, let’s say, the Synoptics. Remember the Church was very young at the time of Pentecost. There was a lot of working thru what, to His followers, was an abrupt ending to a journey they thought was just beginning with Jesus leading and teaching and preaching. For those who are critical of the Church as it developed, I look back and marvel at how it grew and developed and survived. Then I remember that we were not left alone but had and still have the Holy Spirit to guide us, for those who are willing to listen. So, we have the Councils and the Popes and the Church Fathers. I sometimes wish that religion were still so important in people’s lives that they would discuss as in early times salient points in the market place, keeping our beliefs at the forefront of our lives. Should we shout only of the scandals or also about the powerful effect Christianity has in our lives? Being a Christian is more than going to Church on Sunday or, to some, twice a year. It is a call to growing and developing, seeking as those first Christians to be the best they could be. God doesn’t ignore us–please let us not ignore Him–for His love is infinite. We should not leave that closeness up to those in cloisters and monasteries. The same command of the Gospels is also given to us, each one with his or her own talents to give.
Peace!
Peace!
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benedictus2
Guest
Exactly again! The Word of God.
But the **Word of God is not **limited to Scripture. The Word of God is Jesus Christ. Scripture is the wrtten Word of God, but Scripture is not Christ. Scripture reveals the Trinity to us but it is not another person of the Trinity.
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lofktis14kr
Guest
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jean8
Guest
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benedictus2
Guest
It is rather explicit isn’t it? The Word was with God and the Word was God.
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Mailman
Guest
I thought no one, not even the Catholic Church, understands how the Trinity works. Didn’t Augustine say [to those who want to understand the trinity], “Seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand”?
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benedictus2
Guest
That is correct.
The Church knows infallibly that God is Three Persons in one but she has not come up with any teaching on how this all works.
It is a mystery and though theologians may come up with explanations, there is no way of knowing if they correct, hence the Church’s silence on this.
po18guy
Well-known member
Extremely well said, Pat.
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