Some Christians Still Denounce Harry Potter as Dangerous

[PRmerger]

You bet your shoe phone I am. I still remember the traumatic experience of being taken to see the Wizard of Oz by my older sister. As soon as those witches flew in I was out of my seat and up the aisle in a heartbeat causing my sister to state that she would never take me to the theatre again.

Huh. I remember seeing it and thinking, “Really. She could have gone home at any time if she had just clicked her heels. So why in the world didn’t anyone tell her that?? Who would just know that without being told?”

I’ve never seen it since.

Biggest waste o’ time IMHO.

However, because it has wizards and witches you’re opposed to it? Is that correct? And Lord of the Rings Trilogy? And Bewtiched? And I Dream of Jeanne?

 

[Havard]

No, taking the next step, and buying your children incantation toys certainly could.

Much of what these toys teach-is strictly forbidden-in the Catholic Faith.

Read the thread-the posts for Monday, anyway. Our Pope, 3 major Exorcists in Our Church and more are quoted additionally.

Oh well.

God Bless you.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn

Hey Dawn.

For clarification, you’re saying that the direct causation is from the witchcraft toys (plastic wands, cauldrons, etc) or children’s faux-wizardry books with incantations, right? Because you believe they may still serve as occult instruments even if good portions of them are made-up and not lifted from ‘authentic’ druidic/Wicca/pagan manuals? And your problem with the Harry Potter novels/movies is that they promote playing witchcraft/wizardry games?

Hope to hear back, I’m just trying to understand where you’re coming from.

 

[RSD]

Huh. I remember seeing it and thinking, “Really. She could have gone home at any time if she had just clicked her heels. So why in the world didn’t anyone tell her that?? Who would just know that without being told?”

I think that the point was that she could go any time if she clicked her heels together,* and she wanted to go home more than anything else*.

Remember that she had just been running away from home. When she got to the Land of Oz she was frightened and confused, but the original reason she was going to the Wizard was to find out what to do about the Wicked Witch who wanted her shoes.

I think that a movie that conveys that even when things are bad at home, even when “they don’t understand me”, still home is the best place to be, that movie is worth having your kids see. Often.

Also a movie that communicates that if you don’t have any brains, try to get some, if you don’t have a heart, try to find one, if you don’t have the courage to do what needs to be done, go looking for it is a good movie to have your kids watch. Often.

And (just in case you didn’t notice) it was in fact the brains of the scarecrow, the softheartedness of the tin man and the courage of the Lion that made Dorothy’s rescue possible. And it was Dorothy’s kindness to each individual that held the whole entourage together.

NOT, IMHO, a waste of time.

 

[DawnInTexas]

Hey Dawn.

For clarification, you’re saying that the direct causation is from the witchcraft toys (plastic wands, cauldrons, etc) or children’s faux-wizardry books with incantations, right? Because you believe they may still serve as occult instruments even if good portions of them are made-up and not lifted from ‘authentic’ druidic/Wicca/pagan manuals? And your problem with the Harry Potter novels/movies is that they promote playing witchcraft/wizardry games?

Hope to hear back, I’m just trying to understand where you’re coming from.

Shalom, Havard:

Lots of posts yesterday, read through. The Exorcists explain the Doorway to the Occult. Like some who move the thing (I’m too tired to look it up) around the Ouija Board themselves, and others who play the game-open up a new world, complete with attachments for themselves (search on youtube for Ouija).

Just one book I quoted the Table of Contents-the Names of the Chapters should be a big red flag to Catholic Parents and Grandparents.

Here’s yet another Catholic explanation, just out yesterday (below).

Have a Blessed Day.

God Bless you.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn

Click Here:The Daily Jot-with Bill Wilson
Of demons, Harry Potter, and white witchcraft within the church

Every time I see a commercial on television for a new Harry Potter movie, I get upset because I know that many, many people will invite demon possession by just watching the movie thinking it is entertainment. And believe me, there are many a Christian parents, teens and younger children who will argue until they are blue in the face about whether the movie has redeeming value. It is my personal belief that the Harry Potter series, like ouija boards, tarot cards, and anything else involved with witchcraft–white or black–is an invitation for the supernatural to wreck havoc on an unsuspecting soul.

“Inside Catholic” magazine has written a review of Father Thomas Euteneuer’s new book “Exorcism and the Church Militant.” Euteneuer is an expert in exorcism and demon possession. He wrote the book to provide guidance for parents who need a reminder that the occult is not innocent entertainment. Euteneuer says dabbling in the occult and even watching Harry Potter movies could give demons legal entry into an unsuspecting person. Just playing around with the occult in a seemingly harmless act, Euteneuer says, is opening a window to possession. He claims that demons cannot operate without permission from human beings, only entering a person upon invitation–either intentional or unintentional……

 

[Reservoir_Dog]

… Euteneuer says …even watching Harry Potter movies could give demons legal entry into an unsuspecting person…

Where does he actually say watching HP movies can invite demons in? I see the link to a blog, but not the source. I haven’t found any source that shows he even read aHP book or saw a HP movie.

 

[irishpatrick]

We are on the same team and this is friendly territory. Perhaps, you should reflect on this before writing posts where you question whether your fellow Catholics would prefer Harry Potter to meeting the Pope or would not listen to the Pope if told something directly by him, etc. You are hardly in the place to be playing the victim now…

I stand by what I wrote because I feel it is accurate, and I did not direct it to anyone here v(it was a general statement).

Further, the last thing I feel I am is a victim, so you can drop that. I simply felt I was in friendly territory and now I know I am not. That made me feel some sadness, it does not make me a victim.

I also felt that we were all on the same team, but I really question the accuracy of that feeling now. We all fail, we all fall short, we all have our crosses and our problems, yet there are just too many people who say they are Catholics who reject clear Church teachings and statements.

Truthfully, what I found remarkable about this thread is that it is supposed to be populated mainly by Catholics, yet across all the posts about HP, I cannot recall even one response from anyone that said something like: “you know, the things you post about HP are worth thinking about, perhaps I have it wrong, I will give it some prayerful thought.” But no, instead of anything like that, people fought like crazy against a few Catholics here who were simply trying to get people to consider a different point of view. Yet, as I said earlier in the thread, it seems many people just want to win debates, rather than truly consider other points of view that might challenge them. Now, before you try to reverse this on me (another often used tactic), you should understand that I have not always felt this way about HP and I did in fact go through some soul searching to realize that HP is just not something Catholics should read, at least no Catholic children. I did not come to that easy, but it is very clear now.

We, as Catholics, like it or not, are called to a much higher level than any other group on earth. We are supposed to lead, not follow. We are supposed to set the example, not follow the examples of the world. We are supposed to be a cut above the rest and we are not supposed to be of the world. The world is doomed without very strong Catholics.

IMO

 

[irishpatrick]

Which you should have expected.

Catholics should and do come in many flavors. Some good, some bad. Just because some of them do not see any harm in HP with their family does not make them a lesser Catholic than you.

I never said anyone is a lesser Catholic…not once did I say that and I did NOT feel that way.

 

[irishpatrick]

There are so many things wrong with this world—way too many things for us to be sitting here whining about Harry Potter. Anyone who is “influenced” by Harry Potter needs to get a reality check and then an IQ test. People play around and have fun by saying the spells, playing fake Quidditch games, etc. but no one takes it seriously.

Harry Potter’s helped me in Latin class too. The spells have Latin names and they help me with vocab.

That said, I can’t wait to see pt. 1 of the Deathly Hallows in the theaters. AND…I was extremely disappointed when I didn’t see Emma Watson at Brown University last weekend.

Steering the world to a better place means Catholics must steer their own lives towards better places and they must realize that everything we do impacts the entire body and the world. Even smaller choices like HP has an impact.

BTW, many people say things like, “it is just a book, who cares.” Yet, in the garden it was just some fruit…perhaps an apple…so small, so unimportant a tiny little apple is, yet eating that fruit had such a huge impact on all history and all humanity. That is how things work, they look oh so small, and oh so unimportant…deceptively small and unimportant. Sort of like a couple in-love who says, “why don’t we live together because we know we are going to get married, it is a small thing for us to live together becayse we are going to be married anyway.” Than the couple never marries or divorces because they did live together first.

Tiny steps towards destroying souls and an entire cultures…steps that seem so small, so unimportant, so acceptable.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Every time I see a commercial on television for a new Harry Potter movie, I get upset because I know that many, many people will invite demon possession by just watching the movie thinking it is entertainment. And believe me, there are many a Christian parents, teens and younger children who will argue until they are blue in the face about whether the movie has redeeming value. It is my personal belief that the Harry Potter series, like ouija boards, tarot cards, and anything else involved with witchcraft–white or black–is an invitation for the supernatural to wreck havoc on an unsuspecting soul.

It is a stretch to compare HP with tarot cards and an ouija board. Tarot cards and ouija boards are an attempt to communicate with undead, or asking for powers to tell the future from some unknown source.

When I was a young kid I remember being at a friends house when they pulled out an ouija board. I remember pulling on the thing messing around with them as if it was real. I’ve never believed in ghosts or the supernatural like that.

Thanks to this thread, I’ve never really thought about exorcism and the Catholic faith. It’s all a bit strange to someone whose never believe in that sort of thing to face the reality that Catholicism would require me to try and find some sort of understanding with this.

I have family members that belong to a Church where people fall all over themselves speaking in tongues and all that nonsense. We avoid the topic of religion with them for the most part.

 

[rlg94086]

Truthfully, what I found remarkable about this thread is that it is supposed to be populated mainly by Catholics, yet across all the posts about HP, I cannot recall even one response from anyone that said something like: “you know, the things you post about HP are worth thinking about, perhaps I have it wrong, I will give it some prayerful thought.” But no, instead of anything like that, people fought like crazy against a few Catholics here who were simply trying to get people to consider a different point of view. Yet, as I said earlier in the thread, it seems many people just want to win debates, rather than truly consider other points of view that might challenge them. Now, before you try to reverse this on me (another often used tactic), you should understand that I have not always felt this way about HP and I did in fact go through some soul searching to realize that HP is just not something Catholics should read, at least no Catholic children. I did not come to that easy, but it is very clear now.

We, as Catholics, like it or not, are called to a much higher level than any other group on earth. We are supposed to lead, not follow. We are supposed to set the example, not follow the examples of the world. We are supposed to be a cut above the rest and we are not supposed to be of the world. The world is doomed without very strong Catholics.

IMO

Here is a very strong Catholic’s assessment after Cardinal Ratzinger recommended the book be sent to him in the famous letter that is constantly brought up to show that the Pope is against the reading of Harry Potter:
catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0504069.htm

In the letter, Cardinal Ratzinger suggested Kuby send a copy of her book to Msgr. Peter Fleetwood, then an official at the Pontifical Council for Culture.

Msgr. Fleetwood told Catholic News Service July 14 that he received a copy of the book in 2003 and wrote Kuby a four-page letter explaining where he thought she may have misunderstood or read too much into the books. He said he never heard back from her.

The monsignor, now an official of the Council of European Bishops’ Conferences, said the primary focus of parents and teachers he has spoken with about the books is how enthusiastic children are about reading them.

**On a moral level, he said, the books “pit good against evil, and good always wins.”

“The people who complain about Harry Potter are the same people who complain about priests, bishops and catechists watering down church teaching about the devil and evil,” he said**.

Since the Pope seemed to value his opinion enough to recommend the books (which the Pope hadn’t read) be sent to him for his evaluation, I’m certain you will apply some weight to the monseignor’s assessment.

Personally, as a parent, I am cautious about everything my kids read and watch. I’m not of the mindset that removing everything with even the slightest of moral danger is the best for kids. Such sheltering can backfire in a big way! Rather, I forbid greater dangers, with explanation; monitor the lesser dangers, with moral instruction; and do my best to help my kids properly form their consciences. As I have said before, Harrry Potter is one where it is important to be aware of the dangers, so you can make sure your kids understand that witchcraft is evil. If they start developing an inordinate interest in the spells, incantations, etc., then you nip it in the bud. But, I don’t believe you have to ban your kids from reading it.

 

[curlycool89]

Truthfully, what I found remarkable about this thread is that it is supposed to be populated mainly by Catholics, yet across all the posts about HP, I cannot recall even one response from anyone that said something like: “you know, the things you post about HP are worth thinking about, perhaps I have it wrong, I will give it some prayerful thought.”

I’m sure you meant that to be “from the heart”, but in my humble opinion it sounded very much like it came from the ego.

But no, instead of anything like that, people fought like crazy against a few Catholics here who were simply trying to get people to consider a different point of view.

As I said, not all opinions are equal. Yes you’re allowed to have one, but there’s nothing that says we must consider it.

Yet, as I said earlier in the thread, it seems many people just want to win debates, rather than truly consider other points of view that might challenge them.

You’re opinion (again). You seem to think that we’re all doing some weird “separation of debate from opinion” or something. We’re trying to convince your of our side because it’s what we believe, not for the sake of “winning”.

IMO

Yes, yes it is. Don’t you forget it.

 

[irishpatrick]

I’m sure you meant that to be “from the heart”, but in my humble opinion it sounded very much like it came from the ego.

==> People who assume the worst…of course it was from the heart, that is the only reason I am here!

As I said, not all opinions are equal. Yes you’re allowed to have one, but there’s nothing that says we must consider it.

**==> Agreed. However, when a future Pope, two expert exorcists, the Catechism and the Bible are the sources that I lean on…I do NOT lean on my own views. **

You’re opinion (again). You seem to think that we’re all doing some weird “separation of debate from opinion” or something. We’re trying to convince your of our side because it’s what we believe, not for the sake of “winning”.

==> Okay, I accept that. However, “your side” is going against one future Pope, two expert exorcists, the Bible and the Catechism.

Yes, yes it is. Don’t you forget it.

==> As I said, my views as presented here are based upon statements from one future Pope, two expert exorcists, the Bible and the Catechism. So, my “views” are really no entirely my views…they really come from foundational and expert sources. However, it does seem that many people are in fact holding their own personal views in completel contradiction of one future Pope, two expert exorcists, the Bible and the Catchism. It would seem that people who reject those sources are the ones who stand in the position of living their Catholic faith (regarding HP) in their opinion alone. They base their opinions in this matter upon themselves, or it sure seems that way.

 

[Reservoir_Dog]

As I said, my views… way.

Did you ever manage to quantify the actual damage yet? I recall that being asked days ago. Since argument is not evidence, its a legitimate challenge that’s routinely ignored.

 

[irishpatrick]

Here is a very strong Catholic’s assessment after Cardinal Ratzinger recommended the book be sent to him in the famous letter that is constantly brought up to show that the Pope is against the reading of Harry Potter:
catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0504069.htm

Since the Pope seemed to value his opinion enough to recommend the books (which the Pope hadn’t read) be sent to him for his evaluation, I’m certain you will apply some weight to the monseignor’s assessment.

Personally, as a parent, I am cautious about everything my kids read and watch. I’m not of the mindset that removing everything with even the slightest of moral danger is the best for kids. Such sheltering can backfire in a big way! Rather, I forbid greater dangers, with explanation; monitor the lesser dangers, with moral instruction; and do my best to help my kids properly form their consciences. As I have said before, Harrry Potter is one where it is important to be aware of the dangers, so you can make sure your kids understand that witchcraft is evil. If they start developing an inordinate interest in the spells, incantations, etc., then you nip it in the bud. But, I don’t believe you have to ban your kids from reading it.

Do you not understand that once your kids get a real interest in such things, it will likely be too late to change them?

Did you not read earlier in the thread where it was posted that a five year-old child read HP all the way through? They had the “teachings” of HP pumped into them two years before the age of reason and I seriously doubt that was the only case like that.

I do count myself as a Catholic who thinks the Church has loosened its teachings regarding those teachings…it is like robbing Catholics of the full truth.

I have no doubt the Pope trusted him, yet his statements are still his statements.

 

[irishpatrick]

Did you ever manage to quantify the actual damage yet? I recall that being asked days ago. Since argument is not evidence, its a legitimate challenge that’s routinely ignored.

Yes, I posted Father’s statement. That damage is NOT debatable.

 

[bbarrick8383]

==> As I said, my views as presented here are based upon statements from one future Pope, two expert exorcists, the Bible and the Catechism. So, my “views” are really no entirely my views…they really come from foundational and expert sources. However, it does seem that many people are in fact holding their own personal views in completel contradiction of one future Pope, two expert exorcists, the Bible and the Catchism. It would seem that people who reject those sources are the ones who stand in the position of living their Catholic faith (regarding HP) in their opinion alone. They base their opinions in this matter upon themselves, or it sure seems that way.

I think those who enjoy HP books understand what this “future Pope”(I’m not extremely familiar with the process of who becomes the next Pope but isn’t it an election after the death of the current Pope?), the exorcists and all this other info you are bringing to light are saying. I understand it anyway, but I have no fear of my personal involvement with the occult, because it will never happen. And I’ll offer my children a chance to read the HP books when and if I feel they are mature enough to differentiate between fictional entertainment and reality.

Which brings me to my ultimate point.

The future Pope and these exorcists don’t know bbarrick8383 from Oklahoma.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

Interesting. So, where is God mentioned in Lord of the Rings? Obviously, the heroes of that series were also guided by Satan.

Let’s remember: Tolkien was writing from a Christian (Catholic) perspective, not a pagan/agnostic perspective.

The symbolism is immense in Tolkien’s novels. Not so much in Rowling’s.

 

[irishpatrick]

It is a stretch to compare HP with tarot cards and an ouija board. Tarot cards and ouija boards are an attempt to communicate with undead, or asking for powers to tell the future from some unknown source.

When I was a young kid I remember being at a friends house when they pulled out an ouija board. I remember pulling on the thing messing around with them as if it was real. I’ve never believed in ghosts or the supernatural like that.

Thanks to this thread, I’ve never really thought about exorcism and the Catholic faith. It’s all a bit strange to someone whose never believe in that sort of thing to face the reality that Catholicism would require me to try and find some sort of understanding with this.

I have family members that belong to a Church where people fall all over themselves speaking in tongues and all that nonsense. We avoid the topic of religion with them for the most part.

There are univeristy level HP clubs. Kids dress-up all the time like HP and walk around doing fake spells on family members and friends…yes, it is fake, but how people and kids many will one day want to know what the real deal is? I am sure it is one-percent or less, yet that is still a big number!

My question with all this is simple: WHY EVEN BOTHER WITH HP? If there is even a one-percent chance that some kids will fall into bad things because of HP, than why should any Christian go near HP?

Over 400,000,000 copies of the books have been sold. Those books are often loaned to others to read (and this is not even including the movies). Now, if even one-percent of one-percent felll into doing bad things, than that would equate to 40,000 people at a bare minimum. Now, there are a lot more than one-percent of one-percent of people standing in a weakened or vulnerable spiritual state, So, let’s be more realistic and say one-percent of all people might be susceptible…that equates to 400,000 people might fall into bad things as result of reading HP. Now, include the movies, and include the loaned copies, and remain at one-percent, and it becomes easy to see that at least 1,000,000 people might very easily fall prey to HP stories.

Avoid even the near occaision to sin. Catholics seem to have forget that.

 

[Havard]

Truthfully, what I found remarkable about this thread is that it is supposed to be populated mainly by Catholics, yet across all the posts about HP, I cannot recall even one response from anyone that said something like: “you know, the things you post about HP are worth thinking about, perhaps I have it wrong, I will give it some prayerful thought.”

See here’s the problem. Yesterday, I was prodding you because I really am interested in what Father Euteneuer was getting at, and you got upset with me for splitting hairs.

You assumed that I was just trying to win a debate, when in truth, my motivations are directed toward a meaningful understanding of the warnings.

Perhaps you’re exhausted from arguing this ad nauseum, and of course I’ll forgive you for implying that I had less than honest intentions, but you need to realize that charity is due on your end also. Many of the people here who disagree with you are trying to understand what Father Euteneuer and others are concerned about, it’s not right to write them all off as closed and stubborn.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Let’s remember: Tolkien was writing from a Christian (Catholic) perspective, not a pagan/agnostic perspective.

The symbolism is immense in Tolkien’s novels. Not so much in Rowling’s.

“I believe in God, not magic.”

Early on she felt that if readers knew of her Christian beliefs, they would be able to “guess what is coming in the books.”

I was officially raised in the Church of England, but I was actually more of a freak in my family. We didn’t talk about religion in our home. My father didn’t believe in anything, neither did my sister. My mother would incidentally visit the church, but mostly during Christmas. And I was immensely curious. From when I was 13, 14 I went to church alone. I found it very interesting what was being said there, and I believed in it. When I went to university, I became more critical. I got more annoyed with the smugness of religious people and I went to church less and less. Now I’m at the point where I started: yes, I believe. And yes, I go to the church. A protestant church here in Edinburgh. My husband is also raised protestant, but he comes from a very strict Scottish group. One where they couldn’t sing and talk.